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Thread: Bar Fight

  1. #1
    Regular Member Jsmith88's Avatar
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    Me and a few friends decided we would go hit up this new bar. I left my gun at home that night because I knew I was getting drunk and I cant carry in a bar anyways. So we walk up to the door and as I am opening the door this 7'4"ish black guy slams the door opening it hitting me in the face with it. Understandable, things happen. He said I was good to come in but one of my friends couldn't because his pants we too long and his shirt was too red. That pissed me off. Honestly I think he didnt want my friend to go in and made up some lame excuse. This guy was an @#$%, I said "What the f is wrong with his pants they are just as long as mine? And his shirt is too Red!?. This guy was like you aint comin in here. So I said f you and your bar. At that point he pushed me (mind you I am not in the bar or trying to get in.) I am turned around going to the car. I was like WTF is your problem and he pushes me again. I pushed him back, disengaged and said dont push me I am leaving I dont want any problems. He then takes a swing at me and knocks me good in the jaw. At that point I pulled my pepperspray and let him have it. (he had no right to hit me, he was just looking for a fight). At this point he is on the ground and 6 more bouncers come out. With mace in hand I said, "I am leaving and do not want any problems if any of you come at me I will mace you". None approached as a bouncer should do, There job is to keep the situation cool and I wasnt even in the bar I can understand if I was trying to get in the door was starting problems. I left and nothing else happened.

    I would like opinions on how I handled the situation. I think I did the right thing, nobody was hurt and all was well. I know that was not a justified lethal force situation but in my state (NC) we can use whatever force neccesary other than deadly force on a assault.

    “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” -Thomas Jefferson

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    Well, sorry you had to deal with a f@#$^# first of all.

    I personally would have called the police and had him arrested. He likely didn't learn anything and will continue being a #$@&.

    It's probably good you didn't give him the beating he deserved because of the other bouncers. They likely would have "backed up their friend".

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    Good thinking on having the mace with you! I don't know the laws of your state, but mace also has restrictions similar to firearms. You may want to consider researching them to make sure you can take it everywhere. Oftentimes, that's not the case.

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    You allowed it to go south from the start. He told you that your friend was not allowed in, you should have not have done anything. You should have walked away PERIOD. I understand you were pissed but from what I read it was just asking for problems. It is ok to go out and have fun but when ever I sense there might be a problem, I do not chance it at all. No bar or booze is worth risking losing my gun rights. If any anti- gun nut read this in the paper or seen it on the news it would be ammo for them against us. Mainly to the states that do not allow people to carry in any sit down place that serves food and booze. Other states allow this but with a no BS drinking policy while carrying which is the way is should be. If something had happen, they could easy say thank god you did not have a firearm. That you proved their point by your attitude and actions at that bar. Thank god nothing did happen.

    I wish I could go out and have a meal with my wife and carry. In Ohio you can't, and this is one of their excuse for not allowing it to happen. It only takes one to screw it up for all. Everyone must remember it only takes one lapse in commonsense for us to have even tougher laws pressed against us. Not just that but you and others can lose their rights for a stupid moment. I rather look like a chump and walk away then get into something that hurts our cause and lose my rights to boot.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
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    7'4ish black guy, huh? What bar did you go to in North Carolina?

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    tekshogun wrote:
    7'4ish black guy, huh? What bar did you go to in North Carolina?
    We have some bigboys in Youngstown. Yet i see your point.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    ...That pissed me off....
    Mistake #1. Just leave. It's private property.

    So I said f you and your bar
    Do you act like a child when you carry your weapon too?

    . At that point he pushed me (mind you I am not in the bar or trying to get in.)
    Shoulda ended right there with a call to the police and assault charges.

    I pushed him back
    Maybe a carry over from your days on the school playground?


    I am leaving I dont want any problems
    Then flucking leave and quit being a crybaby.



    Having been a bouncer for decades, I can see the guy was an @#$%. But the fact is, it's his property and he can ask you to leave for any reason, or for no reason.
    Throwing a temper tantrum like you did was totally counter-productive. you should have just left and called the next day asking to speak to the owner/manager. Fact is, no matter how wrong they are, you aint gonna win tonight in a brawl with 7 bouncers!

    You were at Twisters in Smithfield? LOL. The bouncers (punks) there love to pick fights there just so they can have a reason to fight. I worked there for about a week until I saw that the bouncers weren't interested in having a safe and legit business, they just wanted a place to brawl each weekend.

    This is a perfect example why the rest of us who have common sense are not allowed to carry our guns to bars!









    .

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I agree that this situation could have been deescalated better.

    I've OCed in a bar before. You can bet your ass I would leave before getting in a dispute of any sort, no matter how right I was.

    With that said, this guy was an ass. You should have called the police.

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    I'll bet you're under 40. When I was younger I had a bad temper, but I learned. I still do not handle physical contact well, but most of that can be avoided by not losing your head over verbal abuse. Words are just that no word or words in & of themselves can harm you. Whenever some A$$ho[ * shoots his mouth off think of him as an oversize child with an IQ to match. Because most of the time that's what they are.

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    I'm not familiar with your state's laws but a lot of states have similar laws so here is what I would do according to Arizona law:

    The man told you that you could enter and the friend could not. This means that in no way were you trespassing. You then asked a legitimate question as to why your friend could not come in and then proceeded to share your opinions about the bar. Your speech towards the bouncer was certainly unprofessional but lawful and protected free speech. The bouncer's option was to first tell you that you are not allowed on the property which he did not do. Therefore you were still not trespassing. If an agent of private property orders you off the premises and you then refuse to leave they have an option of only using the necessary physical force required to remove you which should have been nothing more than a couple of bouncers grabbing each arm and walking you off assuming you did not resist.

    The fact that you were not told to leave and that you simply mouthed off gave the bouncer no right to make physical contact with you. Words do not justify physical force. Therefore, by him pushing you that is automatically an assault which allows you to use the necessary force to defend yourself according to applicable Stand Your Ground laws.

    In my case, I probably would not have been unprofessional toward the bouncer despite his unprofessional attitude but again that is irrelevant because yelling and swearing does not justify an assault. Their legal option is to ask you to leave and if you continue to disturbe the peace, their option is to call the police or use only the force necessary to remove you after first informing you of your unlawful presence. In my case, the moment he made physical contact with me I would have discharged the pepperspray followed by the taser if necessary. I would have then immediately dialed 911 and pressed charges for assualt. I would have also looked to see if surveillance cameras were on the property that may have recorded the event and I would have mentioned them to the police if there and asked them to get a warrant and pull the tapes if needed.

    Firearms are not allowed in bars in Arizona unless specific criterea are met (concealed, DPS-issued carry permit required, not posted otherwise, no alcohol consumption). I will carry openly or concealed in a bar if I feel an emergency situation warrants it. If so, I will also be contacting law enforcement and letting them know the situation and that a citizens' arrest may have to be conducted. A "No Firearms Allowed" sign does not apply for emergency situations. Needless to say if I had a gun and the bouncer acted stupid to me like he did to you I probably would have brandished it as well which is legal according to the Defensive Display law in Arizona. Should the idiot have come at me with aclub or similar device, the bouncers still alive would be taken to the ground at gunpoint until the law arrived and the less intelligent bouncer would be awaiting cleanup, disposal, and funeral services.

    Sorry you had to go through such trouble. Oh and by the way I would have sued the pants off of them and made a complaint to the state's liquor control board. They deserve to be shut down.



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    Jsmith88 wrote:
    Me and a few friends decided we would go hit up this new bar. I left my gun at home that night because I knew I was getting drunk and I cant carry in a bar anyways. So we walk up to the door and as I am opening the door this 7'4"ish black guy slams the door opening it hitting me in the face with it. Understandable, things happen. He said I was good to come in but one of my friends couldn't because his pants we too long and his shirt was too red. That pissed me off. Honestly I think he didnt want my friend to go in and made up some lame excuse. This guy was an @#$%, I said "What the f is wrong with his pants they are just as long as mine? And his shirt is too Red!?. This guy was like you aint comin in here. So I said f you and your bar. At that point he pushed me (mind you I am not in the bar or trying to get in.) I am turned around going to the car. I was like WTF is your problem and he pushes me again. I pushed him back, disengaged and said dont push me I am leaving I dont want any problems. He then takes a swing at me and knocks me good in the jaw. At that point I pulled my pepperspray and let him have it. (he had no right to hit me, he was just looking for a fight). At this point he is on the ground and 6 more bouncers come out. With mace in hand I said, "I am leaving and do not want any problems if any of you come at me I will mace you". None approached as a bouncer should do, There job is to keep the situation cool and I wasnt even in the bar I can understand if I was trying to get in the door was starting problems. I left and nothing else happened.

    I would like opinions on how I handled the situation. I think I did the right thing, nobody was hurt and all was well. I know that was not a justified lethal force situation but in my state (NC) we can use whatever force neccesary other than deadly force on a assault.
    I was a bouncer for years. I have run nightclub security, and I've run bars. IMO, you started out by not having the proper dress (just a guess) and didn't handle being rejected very well. It happens all the time.

    You shouldn't have said this:

    "So I said f you and your bar"


    And this is where the bouncer chose the wrong course of action:

    "I am turned around going to the car. I was like WTF is your problem and he pushes me again. I pushed him back, disengaged and said dont push me I am leaving I dont want any problems. He then takes a swing at me and knocks me good in the jaw."

    He should have shown more restraint. There was no apparent need for him to be physical.

    You did the right thing here:

    "At that point I pulled my pepperspray and let him have it."

    Good for you. I wouldn't take that from some meathead door man either.



    My honest opinion, given after spending countless nights being slapped, punched, kicked, cut, spit on, bled on, puked on, cursed, threatened, and soaked in beer and mixed drinks, is that more harm than good comes from going out to the bar. Do yourself a favor and find something else to do with your time. Bar fights are a matter of "when", not "if".

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    I wouldn't per se believe that bars in general are bad. I think the main difference is the type of establishment. If the place is more like a "nightclub" it is likely to be more classy than some hole in the wall saloon. You get what you pay for. If you go to more of an upscale "nightclub" type of establishment where there is a well dressed doorman and the staff dresses and acts professional, you pay a cover charge, and standards are held high in the place, bar fights will be few and far between. I try to go to these types of places. I respect others and want to be respected as well and I don't mind dressing properly and paying 50%-200% more on drinks to havea quality environment where I can meet quality people.

    The real problem is when you go to dive bars that basically are hole-in-the-walls set up mid-block, where you "park in rear," the lighting is non-existant, there isn't one window in the establishment, the parking lot is filled with pickup trucks from the 1970s that need serious paint jobs, and the sole decoration of the establishment is a variety of beer logo signs and posters. These places will often have specials--even 50 cent beer drafts and dollar shots. Is it really worth it? It is a quality vs. quantity rule. Regardless, no establishment can go around breaking laws (such as assault) if they want to remain in business much longer.



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    Please Pass The Salt. Hmmmmmmm?

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    protector84 wrote:
    I wouldn't per se believe that bars in general are bad. I think the main difference is the type of establishment. If the place is more like a "nightclub" it is likely to be more classy than some hole in the wall saloon. You get what you pay for. If you go to more of an upscale "nightclub" type of establishment where there is a well dressed doorman and the staff dresses and acts professional, you pay a cover charge, and standards are held high in the place, bar fights will be few and far between. I try to go to these types of places. I respect others and want to be respected as well and I don't mind dressing properly and paying 50%-200% more on drinks to havea quality environment where I can meet quality people.

    The real problem is when you go to dive bars that basically are hole-in-the-walls set up mid-block, where you "park in rear," the lighting is non-existant, there isn't one window in the establishment, the parking lot is filled with pickup trucks from the 1970s that need serious paint jobs, and the sole decoration of the establishment is a variety of beer logo signs and posters. These places will often have specials--even 50 cent beer drafts and dollar shots. Is it really worth it? It is a quality vs. quantity rule. Regardless, no establishment can go around breaking laws (such as assault) if they want to remain in business much longer.

    I spent most of my time in bars as an employee, not a customer. Problems happen at every bar, whether it's a fight over a woman or an argument at the door with a bouncer. Old men in sport coats driving $100,000 cars can and do duke it out in the parking lot or bathroom just like young Marines on their last night before getting deployed.

    Like I said, it's not a question of "if", but "when".

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Please Pass The Salt. Hmmmmmmm?
    You want a Pepsi while I'm up?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Please Pass The Salt. Hmmmmmmm?
    You want a Pepsi while I'm up?

    Yata hey
    Yeah. And some pop corn. My treat next.

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    if the OP's story is true, or close to what actually happened, The bouncer deserved exactly what he got and more. He acted in offensive manner and got a face full of capsicum because of it. Maybe he wont be such a "Richard Cranium" to the next potential customer he does not like.

    Depending on your blood-alcohol level, and the witnesses that would explain a similar story to what you have laid out, it makes me believe that the bouncer should be charged with assault & battery for his actions against you, but onlyif local law states you can defend yourself they way you did. If it is a grey area, just let it go because you may find a cop wanting to arrest you for your actions instead.

    The few times I have been forced to defend myself, it always toruns out that all people involved end up in jail and they let the courts sort it out. And that really sucks!

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    Regular Member Jsmith88's Avatar
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    Seems I am getting alot of mixed opinions on it but I acted quickly. I am sure I could have pressed charges for assualt but I feel I should have just walked away from the start. Still though, a bouncer has no right to punch someone for any reason. They know what they are going to put up with when they take the job.
    “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” -Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Jsmith88's Avatar
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    Rugerp345 wrote
    This is a perfect example why the rest of us who have common sense are not allowed to carry our guns to bars!



    .
    I know the Laws of my state and would not have pulled my gun or even let him know I had one. I used non lethal force because that guy had no intention on stopping his punches.
    “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” -Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
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    zack991 wrote:
    You allowed it to go south from the start. He told you that your friend was not allowed in, you should have not have done anything. You should have walked away PERIOD. I understand you were pissed but from what I read it was just asking for problems. It is ok to go out and have fun but when ever I sense there might be a problem, I do not chance it at all. No bar or booze is worth risking losing my gun rights. If any anti- gun nut read this in the paper or seen it on the news it would be ammo for them against us. Mainly to the states that do not allow people to carry in any sit down place that serves food and booze. Other states allow this but with a no BS drinking policy while carrying which is the way is should be. If something had happen, they could easy say thank god you did not have a firearm. That you proved their point by your attitude and actions at that bar. Thank god nothing did happen.

    I wish I could go out and have a meal with my wife and carry. In Ohio you can't, and this is one of their excuse for not allowing it to happen. It only takes one to screw it up for all. Everyone must remember it only takes one lapse in commonsense for us to have even tougher laws pressed against us. Not just that but you and others can lose their rights for a stupid moment. I rather look like a chump and walk away then get into something that hurts our cause and lose my rights to boot.
    I'm curious as to why you think it should be illegal to carry and drink in a bar?

    In Indiana we can carry OC or CC into a bar, restaurant, liqour store. We can consume alcohol while carrying. The streets are not running red with blood. It's called personal responsibility.
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  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Beau wrote:
    I'm curious as to why you think it should be illegal to carry and drink in a bar?

    In Indiana we can carry OC or CC into a bar, restaurant, liqour store. We can consume alcohol while carrying. The streets are not running red with blood. It's called personal responsibility.
    Virginia's the same way. I've done it. The streets didn't run red with blood.

    It actually makes you feel like a free American, fleetingly.

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    I'm curious as to why he thinks the OP was carrying in a bar, since he expressly stated in his post that he wasn't.

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  24. #24
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Sorry for the threadjack. Back on topic. Let's do some armchair quarterbacking.
    I said "What the f is wrong with his pants they are just as long as mine? And his shirt is too Red!?
    This is the first point where I think you did wrong. I think getting hit in the face with door, even though you said it was an accident, it still pissed you off.

    Now he's telling you your friend can't come in. So you cursed at him. Cursing at people, especially people who feel they are in a position of authority, is not the best route to take. Granted he had no right to push you but I guarantee that cursing at him helped him in his decision making process to do so.

    I don't see any problem with pushing him back to go get him away from you. After he hit you I think you were totally justified in using your spray.

    Basically I think the whole issue could have been avoided by simply leaving when he said you couldn't come in. Or by politely asking what exactly was wrong with your friends style of dress.

    But I wasn't there and only you can decide if you handled it the whole situation the way you should have. Bye the way how does your jaw feel?
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    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  25. #25
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    Need more popcorn.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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