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Bar Fight

marshaul

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Aug 13, 2007
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Beau wrote:
I'm curious as to why you think it should be illegal to carry and drink in a bar?

In Indiana we can carry OC or CC into a bar, restaurant, liqour store. We can consume alcohol while carrying. The streets are not running red with blood. It's called personal responsibility.
Virginia's the same way. I've done it. The streets didn't run red with blood.

It actually makes you feel like a free American, fleetingly. :cool:
 

Beau

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East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
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Sorry for the threadjack. Back on topic. Let's do some armchair quarterbacking.
I said "What the f is wrong with his pants they are just as long as mine? And his shirt is too Red!?
This is the first point where I think you did wrong. I think getting hit in the face with door, even though you said it was an accident, it still pissed you off.

Now he's telling you your friend can't come in. So you cursed at him. Cursing at people, especially people who feel they are in a position of authority, is not the best route to take. Granted he had no right to push you but I guarantee that cursing at him helped him in his decision making process to do so.

I don't see any problem with pushing him back to go get him away from you. After he hit you I think you were totally justified in using your spray.

Basically I think the whole issue could have been avoided by simply leaving when he said you couldn't come in. Or by politely asking what exactly was wrong with your friends style of dress.

But I wasn't there and only you can decide if you handled it the whole situation the way you should have. Bye the way how does your jaw feel?
 

zack991

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Beau wrote:
zack991 wrote:
You allowed it to go south from the start. He told you that your friend was not allowed in, you should have not have done anything. You should have walked away PERIOD. I understand you were pissed but from what I read it was just asking for problems. It is ok to go out and have fun but when ever I sense there might be a problem, I do not chance it at all. No bar or booze is worth risking losing my gun rights. If any anti- gun nut read this in the paper or seen it on the news it would be ammo for them against us. Mainly to the states that do not allow people to carry in any sit down place that serves food and booze. Other states allow this but with a no BS drinking policy while carrying which is the way is should be. If something had happen, they could easy say thank god you did not have a firearm. That you proved their point by your attitude and actions at that bar. Thank god nothing did happen.

I wish I could go out and have a meal with my wife and carry. In Ohio you can't, and this is one of their excuse for not allowing it to happen. It only takes one to screw it up for all. Everyone must remember it only takes one lapse in commonsense for us to have even tougher laws pressed against us. Not just that but you and others can lose their rights for a stupid moment. I rather look like a chump and walk away then get into something that hurts our cause and lose my rights to boot.

I'm curious as to why you think it should be illegal to carry and drink in a bar?

In Indiana we can carry OC or CC into a bar, restaurant, liqour store. We can consume alcohol while carrying. The streets are not running red with blood. It's called personal responsibility.
Restaurants are a different story verse a bar, most people in restaurants aren’t there to get drunk. Guns and booze do NOT mix, but it is an infringement of the Second Amendment. This is a tough one. Seen too many bar fights by normally sane people who got drunk. Then again, anyone stupid enough to bring a gun into a bar fight probably won’t care about any law anyways. Maybe we can even compromise and make a 51 percent law such as Texas apparently has.

Not a single person here can say that they have never seen a normally level headed people do some very very stupid things when they drink. Booze is a mind altering drug and maybe if states had similar laws like we have for vehicles. You said it right personal responsibility is #1 but it only takes one idiot to destroy it for everyone, so if it is going to be allowed then it must be done right. You want a law that makes it cut and dry that separates idiots from responsible gun owners having a good time. Just like you can drive a car when you have been drinking as long as your not over the limit, A responsible person will not get behind the wheel. The laws will severely punish the idiot for it and not the responsible people. I would be more open to it if the laws protected responsible people and had truly severe punishments for it morons out there.

It’s a conundrum.


has.
 

zack991

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Tomahawk wrote:
I'm curious as to why he thinks the OP was carrying in a bar, since he expressly stated in his post that he wasn't.
I never said he was, I said thank god he wasn't because if it would have gotten worse then it did then it would be ammo for the anti-gun nuts. Restaurants are one thing bars have a much Higher % of people doing stupid things,.People can say I am overreacting but look at this case as if he was armed. Everything he did was not trying to de-escalate the problem but added to it. If police had been called you can guarantee it would be all over the media and further the fears of guns.
 

Grapeshot

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Valhalla
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zack991 wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
I'm curious as to why he thinks the OP was carrying in a bar, since he expressly stated in his post that he wasn't.
I never said he was, I said thank god he wasn't because if it would have gotten worse then it did then it would be ammo for the anti-gun nuts against other states passing simular laws allowing people to carry into restaurants .
Only problem that I have with guns/alcohol mix is that it strips the lubrication from them. :)

In Virginia we OC at restaurants (no def. bar) licensed to sell alcohol - in fact it is the only legal means. Guess what - no shoot outs, no arguments settled with legally carried guns - just peaceful citizens - the way it is supposed to be.

Yata hey
 

UtahJarhead

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Ogden, UT, ,
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Here in Utah, guns are perfectly legal ANYWHERE except a few federal government institutions, courthouses, mental institutions, and jails. Even bars are allowed... just like people are allowed to drive cars. But if you get caught with a firearm on public streets with > .08 BAC, you're getting taken in just as if you were behind the wheel of a car.
 

rottman43055

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Pretty cool that the spray stopped him. I've always wondered about that stuff.

was it mace, pepper spray or a combo?
 

zack991

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rottman43055 wrote:
Pretty cool that the spray stopped him. I've always wondered about that stuff.

was it mace, pepper spray or a combo?
Watch the dates on the can's when they expire they work very little or take longer for it to take effect. In some cases not at all.
 

Carnivore

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ParkHills, Missouri, USA
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lonewolf2810 wrote:
Carnivore wrote:
I drink alone! Because I prefer to be by myself
And a lot less trouble Unless you shoot yourself :D :celebrate
I don't do Guns and Booze! No matter what happens, if something goeswrong with this combo, Alcohol will be on the forefront as a factorof what ifs...
 

UtahJarhead

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Mace is a type of spray. most (perhaps all?) is pepper spray. The real term for pepper spray is Oleoresin Capsicum. For instance, I got my wife some mace that's 10% OC. It's enough to drop the biggest dude long enough for her to get away.
 

Tomahawk

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Your biggest mistake was posting your personal experiences here, because if you did anything that was even the slightest way not perfect, the know-it-alls and told-you-sos will flame you to death here.

Stupid comments like "How's your jaw feel" and "don't drink in a bar" illustrate the point.
 

protector84

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Oct 6, 2007
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Arizona, U.S.
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I agree that there is a lot of irrelevant armchair quarterbacking here. Questioning whether the OP should go to bars or not and silly comments about popcorn are irrelevant. When it comes down to the incident itself, there are two categories: what the OP should do or not and what the OP hasa legal right to do or not do.

The only "should" part that applies here is that it is a bad idea to use foul language or raise one's voice. Even if the other person is acting rude it is rare to get anything accomplished by screaming, cussing, or name calling.

As to legal rights in most states, certain procedures have to be followed. If the bouncer doesn't tell you explicitly to leave the property, you are not trespassing and it is as simple as that. Yelling or cussing is not "disorderly conduct" unless it is excessive, extreme, or the individual has already been warned to stop the behavior. So legally, at least according to most states the OP did nothing wrong but the bouncer did a whole lot wrong.

As to someone else's opinion here who stated that bars have fights regardless of the type of place, there is still a difference based on the establishment. Even the best of best bars I'm sure will have problems from time to time. Fights and other issues can happen anywhere even at church. As a general rule, though, at least in my experiences when you go to nicer establishment, these problems are far less common. Even fancy nightclubs may have a fight once in a while but you aren't going to have them on a daily and even hourly basis like some dives do. Nothing is perfect anywhere but simply add up the probabilities based on the location and other factors.
 

tekshogun

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protector84 wrote:
I agree that there is a lot of irrelevant armchair quarterbacking here. Questioning whether the OP should go to bars or not and silly comments about popcorn are irrelevant. When it comes down to the incident itself, there are two categories: what the OP should do or not and what the OP hasa legal right to do or not do.

The only "should" part that applies here is that it is a bad idea to use foul language or raise one's voice. Even if the other person is acting rude it is rare to get anything accomplished by screaming, cussing, or name calling.

As to legal rights in most states, certain procedures have to be followed. If the bouncer doesn't tell you explicitly to leave the property, you are not trespassing and it is as simple as that. Yelling or cussing is not "disorderly conduct" unless it is excessive, extreme, or the individual has already been warned to stop the behavior. So legally, at least according to most states the OP did nothing wrong but the bouncer did a whole lot wrong.

As to someone else's opinion here who stated that bars have fights regardless of the type of place, there is still a difference based on the establishment. Even the best of best bars I'm sure will have problems from time to time. Fights and other issues can happen anywhere even at church. As a general rule, though, at least in my experiences when you go to nicer establishment, these problems are far less common. Even fancy nightclubs may have a fight once in a while but you aren't going to have them on a daily and even hourly basis like some dives do. Nothing is perfect anywhere but simply add up the probabilities based on the location and other factors.

I agree; however, the point is, Jsmith88 oculd have done some things differently. It is one thing to be within your right to defend yourself but doing things such as mouthing off and pushing back when you apparently have the clear chance to simply walk away only caused the situation to get worse, resulting in a punch to his face, and him spraying someone.

Before you engage in any physical confrontation with anyone, you should walk away, or run away. If I am outside of a bar, and the bouncer pushes me, I have the tactical advantage of retreating. There is no reason for me to stick around and find out what the guy's problem is, to push back, or to wait for him to punch me in the face. It is one thing to look for a fight, it is another to wait around for one. Ok, because it is legal for me to use pepper spray in the state of North Carolina on anyone I perceive to be ANY physical threat to me but this situation was simply dumb.

To Jsmith88, don't take this personally from me. I mean no ill will in towards you through my comments. I will say that you never know how people are going to react. In Greensboro, police of arrested MANY bouncers for carrying weapons such as hnives and guns (and not all of them were handguns) while working at clubs, bars, and venues. Some people have been injured in incidents that could have been easily avoided.

I don't know you, but I would assume you do not deserve to be shot. That bouncer could have used something my dangerous on you besides a couple of pushes and a punch. And with six other unknown bouncers, it could have ended badly for your friends as well.

I can not stress this enough. Your life is worth everything to you, your truest friends, and your family. Walk AWAY! Leave it alone. Period.
 

Carnivore

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ParkHills, Missouri, USA
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Too Many woulda/coulda/shoulda, maybe the OP has a problem with authority, or rejection.. seems that the last thing he needs to partake of is a mind altering drug such as alcohol, especially where other personalities might be present.
 
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