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Thread: Congress: Passengers Can Bring Guns on Amtrak Trains

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    Congress: Passengers Can Bring Guns on Amtrak Trains

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    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/congre...ory?id=9290167







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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've been following that. I hope it passes! Baby steps.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Since Amtrack can only check baggage at 1/3 of its stations, then this bill should be modified to require that passengers keep their firearms in their possession.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    2a4all wrote:
    Since Amtrack can only check baggage at 1/3 of its stations, then this bill should be modified to require that passengers keep their firearms in their possession.
    Exactly what I was thinking. But I imagine most of the people who support this bill, including the NRA bigwigs, don't travel on Amtrak enough to be aware of it.

    I have traveled long distance several times on Amtrak, and I never check my baggage, because I usually have two carry-ons and I just drag them into my sleeper cabin with me.

    One of the things that worries me is that Amtrak will become more like air travel, where the TSA morons start rifling through your stuff (and stealing it, like they do at airports). The lack of pointless security is one of the best reasons for taking the train.

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    Actually it was not so long ago that you could carry firearms in your CARRY ON baggage when riding Amtrak. In fact, the last time I took the train to the mid-west I took 4 handguns in carry on. The requirement was that they had to be disassembled and that you could not carry any ammo.

    Just imagine being in the train station in DC, with a suitcase full of handguns and then having a 4 hour layover in Chicago, all the while waiting for someone to search your bags.

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    I inquired about this a few years ago and Amtrak replied that the no guns was a policy and that they would kick you off the train at the next stop, but no arrest, depending on where they dropped you off at.

    So where is the LAW that can punish a person for bringing a firearm on a train?
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    Venator wrote:
    I inquired about this a few years ago and Amtrak replied that the no guns was a policy and that they would kick you off the train at the next stop, but no arrest, depending on where they dropped you off at.

    So where is the LAW that can punish a person for bringing a firearm on a train?
    Is it not considered private property? They can make you leave. You don't have to be arrested, but the moment you refuse to leave, they can arrest you (if they have their own police/security detail) or another LEO can.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    I inquired about this a few years ago and Amtrak replied that the no guns was a policy and that they would kick you off the train at the next stop, but no arrest, depending on where they dropped you off at.

    So where is the LAW that can punish a person for bringing a firearm on a train?
    Is it not considered private property? They can make you leave. You don't have to be arrested, but the moment you refuse to leave, they can arrest you (if they have their own police/security detail) or another LEO can.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak

    The National Railroad Passenger Corporation, doing business as Amtrak (reporting mark AMTK), is a government-owned corporation that was organized on May 1, 1971 to provide intercity passenger train service in the United States. "Amtrak" is a portmanteau of the words "America" and "track".[1] It is headquartered at Union Station in Washington, DC.[2]
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    Tawnos wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    I inquired about this a few years ago and Amtrak replied that the no guns was a policy and that they would kick you off the train at the next stop, but no arrest, depending on where they dropped you off at.

    So where is the LAW that can punish a person for bringing a firearm on a train?
    Is it not considered private property? They can make you leave. You don't have to be arrested, but the moment you refuse to leave, they can arrest you (if they have their own police/security detail) or another LEO can.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak

    The National Railroad Passenger Corporation, doing business as Amtrak (reporting mark AMTK), is a government-owned corporation that was organized on May 1, 1971 to provide intercity passenger train service in the United States. "Amtrak" is a portmanteau of the words "America" and "track".[1] It is headquartered at Union Station in Washington, DC.[2]
    Ah, well, you learn something new everyday! Of course, they do have Amtrak Police.

    Interesting, thanks!

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    tekshogun wrote:
    Is it not considered private property?
    Actually its a governmental agency, as the S. Ct. hs ruled for First Amendment purposes. See http://law.jrank.org/pages/12693/Leb...rporation.html

    \There is no federal law, and fe state laws, making it illegal for you to carry on AMTRAk trains. Even AMTRAK's web site published rules do not ban carry of guns.

    See discussion at http://law.jrank.org/pages/12693/Leb...rporation.html

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    Mike wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    Is it not considered private property?
    Actually its a governmental agency, as the S. Ct. hs ruled for First Amendment purposes. See http://law.jrank.org/pages/12693/Leb...rporation.html

    There is no federal law, and fe state laws, making it illegal for you to carry on AMTRAk trains. Even AMTRAK's web site published rules do not ban carry of guns.

    See discussion at http://law.jrank.org/pages/12693/Leb...rporation.html
    Yes, but if you open carry, I bet that changes quick!

    In any case, Amtrak travels through a lot of no-carry states, making it difficult not to break state laws while trying to avoid breaking Amtrak rules. Amtrak's major hub stations are in places like Chicago, DC, and New York. Chicago, in particular, is the usual layover between trains crossing the continent. Watch what you do out there, folks.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    Is it not considered private property?
    Actually its a governmental agency, as the S. Ct. hs ruled for First Amendment purposes. See http://law.jrank.org/pages/12693/Leb...rporation.html

    There is no federal law, and fe state laws, making it illegal for you to carry on AMTRAk trains. Even AMTRAK's web site published rules do not ban carry of guns.

    See discussion at http://law.jrank.org/pages/12693/Leb...rporation.html
    Yes, but if you open carry, I bet that changes quick!

    In any case, Amtrak travels through a lot of no-carry states, making it difficult not to break state laws while trying to avoid breaking Amtrak rules. Amtrak's major hub stations are in places like Chicago, DC, and New York. Chicago, in particular, is the usual layover between trains crossing the continent. Watch what you do out there, folks.
    And in Washington you have to have a CPL to carry openly in a vehicle. Our state ferries are considered extensions of the highway/rd. system. Not sure about the trains.

    So if I took train from here to Eastern Washington and didn't cross state lines I wonder what the policy isor what would happen?
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    You guys hit on a point I was just thinking. While it's a government agency, Washington DC has already banned its subjects from owning handguns (Heller be damned it seems), they've already set the precedent for banning it anywhere federal like EVERY federal building in the country and of course Amtrak.

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    And does the Federal government own all of the interstate rail lines? I honestly don't know as I am guessing a sizable portion of it is or at least was privately owned being that the Feds transfered land to private ownership to encourage building of rail lines in the 1800's.

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    That won't matter who owns it. If the Fed doesn't own it, they're leasing it and therefore it falls under their jurisdiction for their rules that they want to implement. I don't agree with it, but that's how it is.

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    Ummm, I know the folks that run the Southern Ohio & Northern Kentucky Short Line Rail Road that runs out of Cincinnati. It is a privately owned "short line" rail road that does "day trips" on the weekends for passengers. It does cross state lines and is NOT leased by the government in any way shape or form. They would set their own policies about gun carry.
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    I think Amtrak should be more concerned about its sorry "safety" record (accidents/derailments) rather than decent citizens taking their legally-owned/carried guns on board.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    IIRC the only tracks Amtrak owns are the high speed electric line on the Northeast Corridor, which were once built and owned by the Pennsylvania RR.

    Amtrak pays freight railroads to use their tracks, such as CSX, Union Pacific, etc.

    Maybe some of the trackage in cities or other special areas is government-owned, but most of it is private property.

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    http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/20...cked-in-boxes/

    December 16, 2009


    President Signs Bill That Allows Gun-Slinging AMTRAK Passengers to be Locked in Boxes


    Harry Houdini made a career escaping from locked boxes. So did David Copperfield and Doug Henning.

    And now you can add AMTRAK passengers packing heat in their luggage to that list of escape artists.

    It sounds absurd. But President Obama actually signed a bill into law Wednesday that requires passengers who carry firearms aboard AMTRAK be locked in boxes for their journey.

    It’s a mistake. But for now, the clerical error is the law of the land.

    Earlier this week, Congress sent the president a massive spending bill that funded dozens of federal departments. Tucked into the transportation section of the legislation are safety requirements for AMTRAK customers who carry firearms on board the government-backed train system. The bill Congress passed mandates that passengers with firearms declare they have weapons with them in advance and stow them in locked boxes while on the train.

    The bill text was correct when the House approved the legislation last week and the Senate followed suit Sunday. But somewhere in between, the language that referred to putting the guns in locked boxes morphed into stuffing “passengers” into locked boxes.

    Aides to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) became aware of the problem Wednesday night as the House voted on its final slate of bills for the year. Pelosi’s staff tried to negotiate with Republican aides to see if they would agree to change the text of the bill without revoting the entire piece of legislation. But it was all for naught as Mr. Obama had already signed the measure into law.

    It’s clear the typo alters the intent of the legislation. But no one quite knows the origin of the mistake.

    Senior Congressional sources familiar with the error suggested the problem may have been introduced in the

    “enrolling” process of bills. Once both the House and Senate approve the final version of a bill, the text of the legislation is sent to an “enrolling clerk” who actually copies the bill onto parchment paper. The parchment version of the package is then sent to the White House for the president to sign into law. Another theory is that the mistake could be something as simple as a printing error. The House and Senate run multiple versions of bills before they send the final copy to the White House to become law. Another possibility is that Congress sent President Obama the wrong, non-proofed version of the bill to sign.

    The misfire is fixable. But probably not until early next year. The House late Wednesday completed what it expects to be its final session of the year. The Senate remains in session debating health care reform. But both the House and Senate would have to agree to a technical correction of the text that missed its mark.

    The error is reminiscent of $289 billion farm bill President Bush vetoed in May, 2008. In that instance, both houses of Congress inadvertently sent Mr. Bush an incomplete bill, leaving out a 35-page chunk. The president then vetoed an incomplete bill. Congress discovered the error when lawmakers attempted to override the president’s veto.

    In that case, House re-passed the entire farm bill and overrode Mr. Bush’s veto.

    “This bill is one of the most-passed bills we’ve done,” quipped House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) at the time.

    The rules to allow AMTRAK passengers to carry weapons with them are new. Airline passengers have long been permitted to transport weapons in checked luggage. But AMTRAK banned firearms from its trains after September 11th. Only police officers are now allowed to board AMTRAK trains with guns.

    Rep. John Fleming (R-MS) and Sen. Roger Wicker (R-MS) are the primary advocates of the AMTRAK gun provision.



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    Oh wow.

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    That's is EXTREMELY HILARIOUS!

    At least the President signed off on it, error or not, I'm sure it will get fixed.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    That's is EXTREMELY HILARIOUS!

    At least the President signed off on it, error or not, I'm sure it will get fixed.
    Yeah, another chance for congress to "fix" it.

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    I believe this is what is called a Freudian slip.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I get the feeling this was NOT a typo, but rather a insidiously clever instance of "culture jamming" by some "anti" in the Congressional Clerk's office...

    Word to the Pres: ALWAYS read something BEFORE you sign it...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
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    How can anyone be surprised by a typo of this sort when the fools in DC can't even read a simple, single sentence, amendment of the Constitution?

    Particularly when one considers that Title 10, US Code, quite clearly states that the "Organized militia" are the Guard and Naval Militia and that the "unorganized militia" are the able bodied men between certain ages (something like 18 and 45 or something)......NOT VERY PC IF YOU ASK ME.

    So much for the "the militia is the national guard" argument. Title 10, US Code went over quite well in my speech class at school. There were a lot of raised eyebrows and "oh my" looks on the faces of those young, impressionable, students who didn't get JUST the liberal academia brainwashing in my classes.
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