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Thread: Examiner.com: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me - a gun!

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    Please SUBSCRIBE to this column at http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...e-to-me--a-gun

    SNIP

    Imagine the surprise and joy when your loved one finds her new handgun as a stocking stuffer. Or the wonder when a child opens up that long box containing her first rifle. That would be a Christmas that will never be forgotten. So consider guns this year for the folks on your Christmas list, and maybe even for that "Secret Santa" office party. . . .

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    How do Colorado and Oregon restrict private sales at gun shows?

    The map in the article (the same as the one on the OCDO map page) shows those two states as allowing private transfers, "except at gun shows."

    Anybody have a handy reference to how they do that?

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    How do Colorado and Oregon restrict private sales at gun shows?

    The map in the article (the same as the one on the OCDO map page) shows those two states as allowing private transfers, "except at gun shows."

    Anybody have a handy reference to how they do that?
    Our understanding is that private sales are banned at gun shows in those two states.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Guess I'm bored tonight, or at least more curious than otherwise occupied.

    Looks like both Colorado and Oregon use the same strategy, private transfers are allowed at gun shows, but they require any done there to be contingent upon passing the same background check that the licensed dealers use.

    Here's Colorado, they lump both licensed dealers and private sellers into "gun show vendor":

    (1) Before a gun show vendor transfers or attempts to transfer a firearm at a gun show, he or she shall:

    (a) require that a background check, in accordance with section 24-33.5-424, C.R.S., be conducted of the prospective transferee; and

    (b) obtain approval of a transfer from the Colorado Bureau of Investigation after a background check has been requested by a licensed gun dealer, in accordance with section 24-33.5-424, C.R.S.

    (2) A gun show promoter shall arrange for the services of one or more licensed gun dealers on the premises of the gun show to obtain the background checks required by this article.

    (3) If any part of a firearm transaction takes place at a gun show, no firearm shall be transferred unless a background check has been obtained by a licensed gun dealer.

    (4) Any person violating the provisions of this section commits a class 1 misdemeanor and shall be punished as provided in section 18-1.3-501, C.R.S.

    Here's Oregon (they require the private seller to hold on to the paperwork for five years!):

    166.438 Transfer of firearms at gun shows. (1) A transferor other than a gun dealer may not transfer a firearm at a gun show unless the transferor:

    (a)(A) Requests a criminal background check under ORS 166.436 prior to completing the transfer;

    (B) Receives notification that the recipient is qualified to complete the transfer; and

    (C) Has the recipient complete the form described in ORS 166.441; or

    (b) Completes the transfer through a gun dealer.

    (2) The transferor shall retain the completed form referred to in subsection (1) of this section for at least five years and shall make the completed form available to law enforcement agencies for the purpose of criminal investigations.

    (3) A person who organizes a gun show shall post in a prominent place at the gun show a notice explaining the requirements of subsections (1) and (2) of this section. The person shall provide the form required by subsection (1) of this section to any person transferring a firearm at the gun show.

    (4) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply if the transferee is licensed as a dealer under 18 U.S.C. 923.

    (5)(a) Failure to comply with the requirements of subsection (1), (2) or (3) of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

    (b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this subsection, failure to comply with the requirements of subsection (1), (2) or (3) of this section is a Class C felony if the person has two or more previous convictions under this section.

    (6) It is an affirmative defense to a charge of violating subsection (1) or (3) of this section that the person did not know, or reasonably could not know, that more than 25 firearms were at the site and available for transfer. [2001 c.1 §7]
    This is probably enough of a headache to effectively eliminate virtually all private sales at gun shows.

    TFred

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Ha ha exactly what happened to my daughter last year for Christmas! She, and her (now) husband who had been living together (much to my chagrin) had been waiting for him to do the right thing and at least buy her an engagement ring. Well instead she unwraps a box, and finds a Taurus 9mm. And turns to him and says "well at least there's trust in this relationship" "Cuz you know what'll happen if I ever,,,"
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I wish I could afford to get myself another gun this year.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    I wish someone bought me a damn gun for Christmas and my dad never bought me any kind of rifle when I was a kid...

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    My son just turned 18 last Friday and I gifted to him the Savage 64 .22 LR that he picked out when he was 8 (that and a brick of .22 LR Ammo). I would have bought him a pistol, but he stated he was not ready for that just yet (guess I need to take him shooting pistols more often).

    His words "Oh Wow. Oh Wow. Oh Wow" keep ringing in my ears. He really got it - the responsibility that comes with firearm ownership.

    I know I have made the right choice.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    My son just turned 18 last Friday and I gifted to him the Savage 64 .22 LR that he picked out when he was 8 (that and a brick of .22 LR Ammo).* I would have bought him a pistol, but he stated he was not ready for that just yet (guess I need to take him shooting pistols more often).

    His words "Oh Wow. Oh Wow. Oh Wow" keep ringing in my ears.* He really got it - the responsibility that comes with firearm ownership.*

    I know I have made the right choice.
    That's great!

    I pictured your son saying (from your post):

    [Surprised] Oh Wow!
    [With a sense of pride] Oh Wow!
    [Understanding his constitutional rights should not only be respected and observed but practiced] Oh Wow!

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    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
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    M1Gunr wrote:


    This brought tears to my eyes. I wish I could find those prices today. But I don't own a pawn shop.

    And that boy got one heck of a Christmas gift!
    I aim to misbehave

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    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
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    My dad bought me my first non-BB gun when I turned 12. It was a Savage Stevens 12ga single shot shotgun with a 36" barrel from JC Penneys, mail order. I split the stock on my first shot, and now have a replacement. I shot just about everything with that mule.

    This year he offered to gift me a Knight KRB muzzleloader, brand new. It's very pretty and I was looking to get into black powder shooting, but I am just not sure. Anyone have any input for me?

    The reason I am holding back is that he wants an old Marlin Goose Gun, bolt action 36" bbl, and a box magazine that I have to match a 410 bolt action he has. I love that shotgun, but already have a mossberg version.

    What to do, what to do... But if I do it, I can start playing with other materials like powder, 209 caps, and different slugs.
    I aim to misbehave

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    Opus, Just an FYI. But I believe Knight Rifles has permanently closed their doors earlier this year.

    I have an older Knight inline that uses #11 percussion caps, and the nipple for the caps is very specific for the knight system, other manufacturers nipples are too short for the bolt to make contact with the cap. I am sure the bolt can be modified to work correctly, but just watch out for parts availability if you make the trade.

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    Mike wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    How do Colorado and Oregon restrict private sales at gun shows?

    The map in the article (the same as the one on the OCDO map page) shows those two states as allowing private transfers, "except at gun shows."

    Anybody have a handy reference to how they do that?
    Our understanding is that private sales are banned at gun shows in those two states.
    Unfortunately, you can just go outside and do the private sale with no background check.

    I don't think this is a good idea though unless the person buying has a valid CCW permit.

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    I bought the wife a Taurus 38 SPL. Ultra Lite, for Christmas this year! And also signed her up for the CPL class being held by Michigan Open Carry Jan 24, 2010.

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    Diocoles wrote:
    Unfortunately, you can just go outside and do the private sale with no background check.
    Why is that a bad thing?

    In the vast maority of state folks can do this both in and outside a gun show - freedom - and it helps break the chain of government surveillance of gun ownership via ATF Form 4473.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    My son just turned 18 last Friday and I gifted to him the Savage 64 .22 LR that he picked out when he was 8 (that and a brick of .22 LR Ammo). I would have bought him a pistol, but he stated he was not ready for that just yet (guess I need to take him shooting pistols more often).

    His words "Oh Wow. Oh Wow. Oh Wow" keep ringing in my ears. He really got it - the responsibility that comes with firearm ownership.

    I know I have made the right choice.
    That's great!

    I pictured your son saying (from your post):

    [Surprised] Oh Wow!
    [With a sense of pride] Oh Wow!
    [Understanding his constitutional rights should not only be respected and observed but practiced] Oh Wow!
    Why wait so long? I bough my son a Ruger Charger when he was 10.

    And, gosh, I let him keep it in his room, with several bricks of ammo... How dare I! Waht a bastard I am, I should be locked up, and that's illegal, etc, blah blah.... funny, how all the aprents I know comment on how well amnnered and responsible he is..... Could it be that owning a gun taught him that? Naw.... That would make sense.

    And it wasn't even Christmas, or his Birthday. I just felt like it.

    I hope more parents grow up.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    I took my son deer hunting with me at 6.

    I got my son his first BB Gun at 8.

    I put him through Hunter Education at 11.

    I bought him a shotgun that year for his birthday - he nearly turned inside-out with excitement.

    The following year he got a muzzleloader for christmas from me, and I helped him buy a deer-hunting shotgun with his own money.

    The next year his mother and I went together on a 12 Ga. Semi-Automatic shotgun for Christmas. He gave me back his old Shotgun (from when he was eleven) and told me to sell it to someone who could use it to get a son/daughter into hunting. I sold it for half what I had in it to a gentleman with 11 children who wanted to buy his son a shotgun,but couldn't afford it. That Christmas morning the hunting tradition continued in their household!

    He got a .22 Mag given to him by his mother somewhere along the line.

    He bought his own .30-06 bolt action last year for Christmas. Then two weeks later he bought a .30-06 auto to fix up, restock, and sell. He still has it and can't seem to part with it.

    This year he is going to get a $50 .22 Semi-auto that he can fix up on his own. He wants to hot-rod a .22, and has been wanting to buy a used junker. His mean old father has been telling him he can't seem to find anything cheap on the market. He will be surprized.

    What did I get out of all this? A 16 year-old son that I don't have to worry about when he is driving (in the car HE bought and Paid for with his own insurance that did not cost me a dime), when he is hanging around with his friends, or when he is home alone. I never worry about what he is up to and he has never found trouble to get in to. He knows that trouble with dad means a lock on the gun cabinet and trouble with the law means he gives up his guns to the gov't. Further more I got countless hours of time with my pre-teen and teen-ager in the woods - talking about hunting, girls, cars, and whatever else came up. I got a good excuse to go hunting more often than I probably would have otherwise. I never get complaints about being seen with him in public if we are heading out to the sporting goods store.

    We allalso get another generation of gun owners, who are interested in the right to bear arms, and are willing to help protect that right. Guns are probably the best gift we can ever give.


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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Santa's been good to me this year though we'll be out of the country so we just decided to buy the spousal presents and say Merry Xmas....yeah, it's not quite the same but ya can't take them on an international flight.

    The wife got a 42" widescreen....seriously guys SHE wanted it BAAAD. For her last B-day she wanted a gas welding/cutting outfit. She also got 2,000 rounds of 5.56 for her AR's.

    I got a Reminington R-25 (AR-10), Taurus Judge public defender, and and FN FiveseveN pistol.

    Yeah mine got more but the trip to Germany is for HER to see her kiddo and that more than balances the scale.

    I'd give her the trap door and "escape tunnel" that she wants in the house but that's just not realistically possible.

    When we return from Europe WE will probably buy ourselves a bigger safe for the toys as they're getting pretty crowded in there.

    Merry Xmas and cross your fingers we aren't on the no fly list.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    ho ho ho
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Archie wrote:
    I took my son deer hunting with me at 6.

    I got my son his first BB Gun at 8.

    I put him through Hunter Education at 11.

    I bought him a shotgun that year for his birthday - he nearly turned inside-out with excitement.

    The following year he got a muzzleloader for christmas from me, and I helped him buy a deer-hunting shotgun with his own money.

    The next year his mother and I went together on a 12 Ga. Semi-Automatic shotgun for Christmas. He gave me back his old Shotgun (from when he was eleven) and told me to sell it to someone who could use it to get a son/daughter into hunting. I sold it for half what I had in it to a gentleman with 11 children who wanted to buy his son a shotgun,but couldn't afford it. That Christmas morning the hunting tradition continued in their household!

    He got a .22 Mag given to him by his mother somewhere along the line.

    He bought his own .30-06 bolt action last year for Christmas. Then two weeks later he bought a .30-06 auto to fix up, restock, and sell. He still has it and can't seem to part with it.

    This year he is going to get a $50 .22 Semi-auto that he can fix up on his own. He wants to hot-rod a .22, and has been wanting to buy a used junker. His mean old father has been telling him he can't seem to find anything cheap on the market. He will be surprized.

    What did I get out of all this? A 16 year-old son that I don't have to worry about when he is driving (in the car HE bought and Paid for with his own insurance that did not cost me a dime), when he is hanging around with his friends, or when he is home alone. I never worry about what he is up to and he has never found trouble to get in to. He knows that trouble with dad means a lock on the gun cabinet and trouble with the law means he gives up his guns to the gov't. Further more I got countless hours of time with my pre-teen and teen-ager in the woods - talking about hunting, girls, cars, and whatever else came up. I got a good excuse to go hunting more often than I probably would have otherwise. I never get complaints about being seen with him in public if we are heading out to the sporting goods store.

    We allalso get another generation of gun owners, who are interested in the right to bear arms, and are willing to help protect that right. Guns are probably the best gift we can ever give.
    I enjoyed reading your post. Welcome to OCDO!

    As I contemplated your words, it occurred to me that I should suggest a slight addendum.

    Just as we are fond of countering the antis with "guns don't kill people, people kill people", it becomes obvious as one reads your post that it wasn't the guns that raised your kid right, it was you! The gun was, and always is, merely a tool. In this case, it was a reason to spend quality and quantity time with your son, and an instrument about which one must learn responsible behavior. And that responsible behavior then spills over into all areas of life.

    As with many other tasks that we prepare to face, some regularly, some never, a gun is a very necessary tool that can make all the difference in the world. You've thoughtfully shown us another purpose that it can serve.

    Thanks.

    TFred


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    Archie wonderfull 1st post, i brought my 3 girls up the same way, boy am i ever proud of the way they turned out. I am sure you feel the same. Stick around a great group here. Be safe Mtn Jack

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    i didnt get into shooting until i was older.

    first bb gun at i think 7,a daisy buck.

    musta put 20,000 bbs through it.



    8 was when i shot my first gun,16 ga. remington 870 wingmaster that is now in my possesion,i skinned my trigger finger on that first shot.

    the gun was taller than i was.lol.



    did very little shooting until i got my first shotgun,a charles daly field 20 ga. pump.

    then it was an every weekend thing for a year and a half,but ammo started going up,so i bought the ruger 10/22 that is right next to me,and in a few months time made my money back on saved ammo money.



    now im out every chance i get doing everything from up to 200 yard shots w/ that 10/22 to point blank,high speed defensive drills.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    I have seen alot of people just go out to the parking lot at the expo center where the portland gun show is held, and do the transaction there with no paperwork. the port of portland police can't do anything about it because the rules only apply to inside the buildings. This is what a police sargeant told me the last time I was up there. I thought it was an interesting loophole.

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    Last year my sons got me a .40-cal. pistol (no paperwork here in Pennsylvania for a father/son transfer). This year my wife got me some 9mm ammunition.

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