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Thread: long arm-handgun in MI,legal to carry in other states?

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    this came up earlier today @ the ponderosa meet in owosso(the 12th of dec.)



    i have a ruger 10/22 with a side folding stock,when folded is 26 1/8th inches long.

    therefore is registered as a handgun in michigan as it is under 30 inches when folded.



    my question is,since it is considered a handgun in MI is it legal to carry as a handgun in other states?or is it a "long arm" in the other states.



    just a curiosity.and i was suggested to start a thread on it for a good discussion by one of the guys at the lunch today.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Long arm in other states... as far as I know we are the only ones who use the 26 to 30 inch rule. As far as I know other states follow federal law under 26 inches period.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I would tend to disagree on this one only for one simple fact...
    If they recognize MI CPL, and you have it registered in Mi as a handgun; you are therefore carrying a handgun according to the laws of your state. They may not allow it to be registered in their state as a handgun by federal definition, but that is not what you are doing; if I understand your question correctly...you are just visiting.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    You don't follow the laws of the state you received the CPL in but rather the one you are in at the time...

    It is exactly the same as traffic laws.




    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I agree and understand. If he were trying to register it in that state as a handgun. But if Mi allows it to be registered as such; don't you think they would honor it as with the reciprocity?

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    WARCHILD wrote:
    I would tend to disagree on this one only for one simple fact...
    If they recognize MI CPL, and you have it registered in Mi as a handgun; you are therefore carrying a handgun according to the laws of your state. They may not allow it to be registered in their state as a handgun by federal definition, but that is not what you are doing; if I understand your question correctly...you are just visiting.
    Try it anywhere else in the union and you'll become a resident of their penal system.

    Michigan is the only state in the union that defines a shoulder fired weapon under 30" and over 26" as a pistol.

    Reciprocity of the CPL has nothing to do with it.

    Furthermore, Michigan is only 1 of 5 states that requires the registering of handguns.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I so enjoy learning new things here. Ok, so in order to carry state to state (regardless of CPL), you would best be protected to check the laws of that state to conform to them; lest you become a county resident in orange.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    WARCHILD wrote:
    I so enjoy learning new things here. Ok, so in order to carry state to state (regardless of CPL), you would best be protected to check the laws of that state to conform to them; lest you become a county resident in orange.
    It's like a DL. If you have a Michigan DL and lets say we can drive 100 on expressways in Michigan and then go to a state where the SL is 70, our DL doesn't allow you to drive 100.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Your permit, when carrying in a state that recognizes it, is legally viewed as being equal to the permit in the state you are carrying. It offers you no additional privileges.

    The only state that I know of that would honor the laws of other states was Michigan, prior to shall issue. I don't remember the exact wording of the law at the time, but it essentially said that all privileges granted by a non residents home state would be granted to them in Michigan. Yet, at the same time it was a moot point because under the old system, there wasn't any gun free zones, and I don't think there was a minimum age requirement (though I could be wrong), but no county would issue to those under 18, since you have to be 18 to have a pistol registered in your name anyway.

    But, I guess the argument could have been made that if state "A" allowed machine pistols to be carried, that they would be allowed in MI. A better argument would have been with states that issue weapons permits instead of handgun permits, as far as carrying a weapon, not just a handgun, in Michigan.

    But, our law changed, the cost increased, we got gun free zones now, and it costs more.

    I'll have to come back tomorrow to see if what I wrote made any sense, because due to being tired, my brain isn't functioning very well right now.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    State laws obviously vary, but if you go to a free state, long arm OC is legal in your car, so it's not so much of an issue.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    State laws obviously vary, but if you go to a free state, long arm OC is legal in your car, so it's not so much of an issue.

    Good point... When I am in Kentucky I always see loaded rifles in cars and trucks.

    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    thats another thing i wanted to ask,

    with a cpl,you can carry anywhere in the vehicle correct?

    would that make it so that long arms registered as handguns could be carried in a gun rack placed in the rear window of a pickup?




    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    thats another thing i wanted to ask,

    with a cpl,you can carry anywhere in the vehicle correct? Yes, but if you have passenger(s) with you who do not have a CPL, the pistol must be inaccessible to them.

    would that make it so that long arms registered as handguns could be carried in a gun rack placed in the rear window of a pickup? Yes, but I strongly recommend you do not do this. Again, the passenger thing still applies.




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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I would think so...but I wouldn't do it ..as it makes it obvious to a thief... I carry my Shotgun pistol in a Tennis Racket case or a guitar case...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    not attempting these things,just like to know as much about the laws,and loopholes as i can
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    thats another thing i wanted to ask,

    with a cpl,you can carry anywhere in the vehicle correct? Yes, but if you have passenger(s) with you who do not have a CPL, the pistol must be inaccessible to them.

    would that make it so that long arms registered as handguns could be carried in a gun rack placed in the rear window of a pickup? Yes, but I strongly recommend you do not do this. Again, the passenger thing still applies.



    I'm not so sure about the "accessible to passengers" aspect. I believe that they are still in your control/possession.

    If that's the case, then my placing my pistol on the console is not lawful with my wife next to it.

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    thats another thing i wanted to ask,

    with a cpl,you can carry anywhere in the vehicle correct? Yes, but if you have passenger(s) with you who do not have a CPL, the pistol must be inaccessible to them.

    would that make it so that long arms registered as handguns could be carried in a gun rack placed in the rear window of a pickup? Yes, but I strongly recommend you do not do this. Again, the passenger thing still applies.



    I'm not so sure about the "accessible to passengers" aspect. I believe that they are still in your control/possession.

    If that's the case, then my placing my pistol on the console is not lawful with my wife next to it.
    inaccessible

    ETA: The way I look at it is if you did not have a CPL and you were the only person in the passenger compartment (driver in this case) of a truck with no trunk of any sort, the pistol must be incased, unloaded and inaccessible to you.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    isnt there something about exempt persons?to include spouses



    no law to cite directly from,but i think i read it somewhere,cant be sure however.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    isnt there something about exempt persons?to include spouses



    no law to cite directly from,but i think i read it somewhere,cant be sure however.
    MCL 28.432

    It allows a person with a CPL to possess/carry a registered pistol belonging to another individual--in this case a spouse.

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    I can't find anything that requires a pistol being transported by a CPL holder has to be inaccessible to the passengers. Help me out here, please.

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    I can't find anything that requires a pistol being transported by a CPL holder has to be inaccessible to the passengers. Help me out here, please.
    If this is the case, then wouldn't a gun in a holster on my right side (if I'm the driver and have a CPL) be considered "accesible" to the passenger sitting next to me that doesn't have a CPL? It would be within their reach.

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    We're just speculating here. I can't find anything. But if someone has a reference or even a hint of a cite, I'd like to research this further.

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    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.

    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

  24. #24
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.

    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    Doesn't say anything about a CPL holder having to keep his pistol "not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle".

    It appears to me that 1(a) makes the CPL holder exempt.

    Otherwise 1(e) would apply and the CPL holder's pistol would have to be unloaded and inaccessible.

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    I mainly posted that portion of Section 231a for the "readily accesible" part.

    Though not defined in the statue, but it means "...capable of being reached quickly for operation...."

    We know that a loaded, uncased pistol in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is considered concealed in Michigan unless you have a CPL. This is why I mentioned previously that a person in the passenger compartment (truck) who does not have a CPL, that the pistol must be inaccessible to them.

    Not capable of being reached quickly for operation....

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