long arm-handgun in MI,legal to carry in other states?

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CV67PAT wrote:

I can't find anything that requires a pistol being transported by a CPL holder has to be inaccessible to the passengers. Help me out here, please.

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If this is the case, then wouldn't a gun in a holster on my right side (if I'm the driver and have a CPL) be considered "accesible" to the passenger sitting next to me that doesn't have a CPL? It would be within their reach.

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We're just speculating here. I can't find anything. But if someone has a reference or even a hint of a cite, I'd like to research this further.

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750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.

Sec. 231a.

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.

Sec. 231a.

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

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Doesn't say anything about a CPL holder having to keep his pistol "not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle".

It appears to me that 1(a) makes the CPL holder exempt.

Otherwise 1(e) would apply and the CPL holder's pistol would have to be unloaded and inaccessible.

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I mainly posted that portion of Section 231a for the "readily accesible" part.

Though not defined in the statue, but it means "...capable of being reached quickly for operation...."

We know that a loaded, uncased pistol in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is considered concealed in Michigan unless you have a CPL. This is why I mentioned previously that a person in the passenger compartment (truck) who does not have a CPL, that the pistol must be inaccessible to them.

Not capable of being reached quickly for operation....

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I think that the question here is whether a loaded pistol being transported in a vehicle occupied by a CPL holder has to be not readily accessible to the other non-CPL holding occupants. That is what I don't see referenced in any laws. The lack of specificity leads me to believe that the readily accessible provision only applies to pistols (and firearms) that are in a vehicle without a CPL holder occupant.

I base this on the fact that the statute cited exempts any of the listed conditions.

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

I mainly posted that portion of Section 231a for the "readily accesible" part.

Though not defined in the statue, but it means "...capable of being reached quickly for operation...."

We know that a loaded, uncased pistol in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is considered concealed in Michigan unless you have a CPL. This is why I mentioned previously that a person in the passenger compartment (truck) who does not have a CPL, that the pistol must be inaccessible to them.

Not capable of being reached quickly for operation....

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I couldn't find anything in there that indicates that it must be inaccessible to them.

on the other hand, I'd recommend being very cautious of creating a "constructive possession" situation. ie. pistol in glove box, CPL holder is driver, Non-CPL holder is passenger.

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yall really get into the laws technical aspect.



good.

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lil_freak_66 wrote:

yall really get into the laws technical aspect.



good.

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Or we could be like kimberguy's friends at Jackson PD and just make 'em up as we go along.

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xd-40 wrote:

SpringerXDacp wrote:

I mainly posted that portion of Section 231a for the "readily accesible" part.

Though not defined in the statue, but it means "...capable of being reached quickly for operation...."

We know that a loaded, uncased pistol in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is considered concealed in Michigan unless you have a CPL. This is why I mentioned previously that a person in the passenger compartment (truck) who does not have a CPL, that the pistol must be inaccessible to them.

Not capable of being reached quickly for operation....

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I couldn't find anything in there that indicates that it must be inaccessible to them.

on the other hand, I'd recommend being very cautious of creating a "constructive possession" situation. ie. pistol in glove box, CPL holder is driver, Non-CPL holder is passenger.

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This is why I posted this on the first page:

'ETA: The way I look at it is if you did not have a CPL and you were the only person in the passenger compartment (driver in this case) of a truck with no trunk of any sort, the pistol must be incased, unloaded and inaccessible to you.'

Point being, if you (Driver) and other passengers are in a vehicle and none of you have CPL's, the loaded, uncased pistol must not be "readily Accessible" to any one of you.

A few minutes later I show up and have you slide over so I can drive. At this point, having a CPL, I can take possession of the loaded, uncased pistol and place it in my holster and be within the law. Now, other than myself who has a CPL, there are two other passengers in the front seat, is the holstered pistol on my right side considered accessible to the other two passengers without CPL's? No, I really don't think so.

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i think that if it is ON your person it isntgoing to be considered"readilyaccessible" to anybody else,because for one...it is in your holster.....

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Your point about the CPL holder exiting the vehicle with the loaded pistol still in there with a non-CPL holder is absolutely correct. Even if the loaded pistol is locked in a "gun vault" inside the vehicle.

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I apologize for driving this off topic.

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lil_freak_66 wrote:

i think that if it is ON your person it isntgoing to be considered"readilyaccessible" to anybody else,because for one...it is in your holster.....

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I agree. If this were not the case how would so many here who OC on a daily basis be able to do so at the locations they do? For example, Walmart, Bass Pro, Gander Mountain, Etc where there are dozens, maybe hundreds of people who are at close proximity throughout the visit.

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CV67PAT wrote:

I apologize for driving this off topic.

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Oh chit you're right. Sorry about that lil_freak_66.

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i got the information i originally wanted.chat away! im learning more and having fun listening/reading.with occasional input

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Just wanted to welcome Lil' Freak to the forum. Always good to see other people from Lansing!

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Hey Guys

I know its not right to talk with officers about the law but this time it kinda fits and matches up with the law as written.

Once upon a time I talked with one of the officers that I deal with on a daily basis that i have gotten to know very well (went to his wedding). Here is what he said on the issue as I remember it.

What we are talking about is an application of 750.231a exemptions. Part 1a applies to the person with the CPL while riding in the vehicle and part 1e applies to the non-CPL holder. To give an example if you were riding in your car alone or with me ( my officer friend ) you could put the gun right up on the dash and not have a problem. You would most likely be stopped and questioned but it would be perfectly legal because yoiu would be the only person in control of it or the only people able to control it would be licensed or authorized by law. Now if you were riding around with John Q Public non-CPL holder you would be in violation of the CPL law (did not state number at this point that I recall but I would guess it would be 750.227 (2). I will bring it up again and ask ) by providing easy access to a firearm while in a motor-vehicle to a non-CPL holder. At the least you would be CPL suspended until a Gun-Board review if not facing charges.

Again I know its not the place to get law advice by talking to a police officer but this guy I know and trust not to slant things. At least not when he and I are talking. Other times I don't know what he would say but we have a mutual trust built from a long working relationship where he knows I wont snowball him about his equipment and he hasn't snowballed me to my knowledge yet on anything I have asked.

So take it for what its worth.

Radioman