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Thread: AK Underfolder as Pistol

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I know that Kimberguy carries an AK underfolder that's registered as a pistol in MI. I brought this up on another forum and the people there don't think that any AK could ever be registered as a pistol.

    Could someone point me in the direction of the MI law(s) that shows that this is legal?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    I'm not positive on where to find the law (online), but I recently register my AK as a pistol. The gun must have a pistol grip, the gun in overall length must be between 26' to 30'.

    I just removed my buttstock. Once I get some money I plan on putting a folding understock on it. Since I have my CPL, all I had to do was fill out a RI-60 form, and sell the gun to myself (for free). It was that easy.

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    FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
    Act 372 of 1927

    28.421 Definitions.Sec. 1.
    As used in this act:


    (e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.



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    they are in the process of changing this, if you have it registered to you before jan 1, 2010, you will be grandfathered in.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-hEBH-4501.pdf

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Kimberguy wrote:
    they are in the process of changing this, if you have it registered to you before jan 1, 2010, you will be grandfathered in.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-hEBH-4501.pdf
    That of course is if the changes pass this legislative term... so far they are in committee.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    http://www.michiganvotes.org/Legisla...2f2009-HB-5038

    • Passed in the House (108 to 0) on June 16, 2009.
    • Received in the Senate on June 17, 2009.
      • Referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee on June 17, 2009.


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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    So what parts are being changed here?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Eh.

    I thought about getting the WASR registered, but naahh.

    I'll just build a Krinkov pistol if I need a wicked OC weapon.

    -Richard-

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    they are in the process of changing this, if you have it registered to you before jan 1, 2010, you will be grandfathered in.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-hEBH-4501.pdf
    That of course is if the changes pass this legislative term... so far they are in committee.
    Not directed to you Autosurgeon...

    Out of all the Bills introduced in the last year or two--this one it seems--to be the one I see/read the least about on the gun forums. Is anyone challenging/opposing this: NRA, GOA, SAF, Etc?

    With all the folks consisting of only two gun sites--OCDO (Mi) and on MGO--who own rifles and shotguns, classified as pistols under Michigan law, I don't see anyone raising a stink about this Bill.

    Other than the Bill still in committee, anyone have further updates/details on this?

    What was the circumstances/reasons which leadto the introduction of this Bill?

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    i am not smart on legal talk...what is the bill doing exactly?
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Cleaning up MI law and making it mirror federal law just like all 49 other states.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    so they're getting rid of the 30 inch length thing then?
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    so they're getting rid of the 30 inch length thing then?
    MCL 28.421

    For now, in Michigan, a pistol is defined as:

    (e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.

    If the new law goes into effect the first of the year, it will be 26 inches or less intead of 30 inches or less.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    works for me.

    dont have to deal with purchase permits as often that way.

    and the grandfathered thing mentioned before means anything currently registered is still a handgun?
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    and the grandfathered thing mentioned before means anything currently registered is still a handgun?
    Yes. For example, my newly registered as a pistol AK-47 will be still deemed a pistol ifthis bill passes.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    works for me.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    i just don't like that i only have about 2.5 more weeks to buy and register 2 more guns that I want to buy.

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    What if this bill does pass, but let's say it doesn't pass until March 17th, 2010....

    I would think that anything that is registered as a pistol up until March 16th, 2010 would be "grandfathered" in.

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    T Vance wrote:
    What if this bill does pass, but let's say it doesn't pass until March 17th, 2010....

    I would think that anything that is registered as a pistol up until March 16th, 2010 would be "grandfathered" in.
    I would say you're correct.

    http://www.michiganvotes.org/2009-HB-5038

    [*]Introduced by Rep. Kate Ebli (D) on June 3, 2009, to establish that if the definition of “pistol” is revised as proposed by House Bill 5037 so that it applies to a firearm less than 26 inches long, rather than 30 inches, then those with a firearm that falls in that gap would still be allowed to possess, carry or transport the firearm as a pistol.
    • Referred to the House Tourism, Outdoor Recreation, And Natural Resources Committee on June 3, 2009.

    • Reported in the House on June 9, 2009, with the recommendation that the substitute (H-1) be adopted and that the bill then pass.

    • Substitute offered in the House on June 16, 2009, to replace the previous version of the bill with one that revises details but does not change the substance of the bill as previously described. The substitute passed in the House by voice vote on June 16, 2009.
    [*]Passed in the House (108 to 0) on June 16, 2009, to establish that if the definition of “pistol” is revised as proposed by House Bill 5037 so that it applies to a firearm less than 26 inches long, rather than 30 inches, then those with a firearm that falls in that gap would still be allowed to possess, carry or transport the firearm as a pistol. [Vote Details and Comments][*]Received in the Senate on June 17, 2009.
    • Referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee on June 17, 2009.

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    T Vance wrote:
    I'm not positive on where to find the law (online), but I recently register my AK as a pistol. The gun must have a pistol grip, the gun in overall length must be between 26' to 30'.

    I just removed my buttstock. Once I get some money I plan on putting a folding understock on it. Since I have my CPL, all I had to do was fill out a RI-60 form, and sell the gun to myself (for free). It was that easy.
    Ok, so what you have is a rifle according to the federal government, but a pistol according to MI.





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    kwikrnu wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    I'm not positive on where to find the law (online), but I recently register my AK as a pistol. The gun must have a pistol grip, the gun in overall length must be between 26' to 30'.

    I just removed my buttstock. Once I get some money I plan on putting a folding understock on it. Since I have my CPL, all I had to do was fill out a RI-60 form, and sell the gun to myself (for free). It was that easy.
    Ok, so what you have is a rifle according to the federal government, but a pistol according to MI.



    i believe that the feds classifies it as "Any Other Weapon" is this case, MI allows you to conceal carry it as long as it is registered as a pistol in MI.

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    "or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm."

    I've been racking my brain, and maybe im just over thinking it. But what does that mean?

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    BreakingTheMold wrote:
    "or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm."

    I've been racking my brain, and maybe im just over thinking it. But what does that mean?
    that has bothered me for some time now, and I have absolutely no idea. Sounds like a way to justify calling something a pistol as they so desire.

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    At least i'm not the only one confused! I'll dig deeper in the morning.

    Can you not carry a Rifle with a cpl? My Shorty AR gets down to 32", so it's not a pistol. I've always planned on having my pistol and a truck gun(Truck vault or similar).

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Kimberguy wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    I'm not positive on where to find the law (online), but I recently register my AK as a pistol. The gun must have a pistol grip, the gun in overall length must be between 26' to 30'.

    I just removed my buttstock. Once I get some money I plan on putting a folding understock on it. Since I have my CPL, all I had to do was fill out a RI-60 form, and sell the gun to myself (for free). It was that easy.
    Ok, so what you have is a rifle according to the federal government, but a pistol according to MI.



    i believe that the feds classifies it as "Any Other Weapon" is this case, MI allows you to conceal carry it as long as it is registered as a pistol in MI.
    To make things simple, and to explain some things to those who might not know, I'm going to spell out some federal definitions. Michigan law is NOT what I am talking about.

    A 26-30" rifle of 50 caliber or less is an rifle by the standards of the feds. Regardless of what stock configuration it has.

    If the rifle ended up under 26", it wold be an SBR.

    If it started off as a Federally defined pistol (under 26", no buttstock or pistol foregrip), then ended up with a pistol grip up front, like an AMD fore grip or something similar, then, and only then, it would be an AOW. You can't make a pistol from a rifle, because any pistol made from what was originally a rifle is a SBR.

    If you took an AOW pistol or regular pistol and added a buttstock but didn't make it over 26" total with a 16" + barrel, then it would be a SBR.

    But if you had a pistol (as in no buttstock and probably under 16" barrel) and you put a muzzle attachment and a buttstock on it to make it long enough to make it 16" + for the barrel and 26" + OAL, that would be fine, and it would just be a rifle.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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