Man arrested for open carry at a Klamath County, OR Library

Mike · Dec 16, 2009

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michael1131988 wrote:

it was loaded with a round in the chamber which not even a person with a concealed handgun permit can have and do

Um, you are aware that nobody needs a concealed permit to open carry loaded chambered guns in oregoan and most states, right?

michael1131988 · Dec 16, 2009

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it is actually an arrestable offense due to the fact of the chance of a misfire that could be potentially fatal to another indevidual and if you are carrying and and officer asks to see your gun there is a certain way you need to hand it to him to allow him to check if there is a chambered round and if someone can find a law book with a law and ordinance code that states that you cancarry loaded.take a picture and post it. if you have taken the test for you concealed it even asks you if you can carry loaded and the answer is no. and officers can but most don't just to the fact of the chances of a misfire.

Hendu024 · Dec 16, 2009

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michael1131988 wrote:

it is actually an arrestable offense due to the fact of the chance of a misfire that could be potentially fatal to another indevidual and if you are carrying and and officer asks to see your gun there is a certain way you need to hand it to him to allow him to check if there is a chambered round and if someone can find a law book with a law and ordinance code that states that you cancarry loaded.take a picture and post it. if you have taken the test for you concealed it even asks you if you can carry loaded and the answer is no. and officers can but most don't just to the fact of the chances of a misfire.

O.K. after this last response of yours, I am not even going to respond anymore because it is obvious that you don't have a CLUE of what you are talking about. Furthermore, the moderator asked you to cite your ridiculous statements, and you are continuing to ignore that rule. Have a nice day, moron.

ixtow · Dec 16, 2009

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michael1131988 wrote:

The law states that no person may carry around a handgun with a chambered round not even an officer of the law carries a chambered round and the law also states that no indevidual ma carriy a weapon into a federal building and a law library is a federal building and i know for a fact that that library has a sign at both entrances stating that weapons are not allowed on their property. the other thing is that it is considered endangerment of a child to carry in a public library none the less

I'm reminded of the scene from Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail... You know, where all the Angels bend over and play trumpets out their butts...

Lets see this law Mr. Noob who makes it up as he goes...

Endangerment of a child? Are you retarded? No, I wouldn't insult retarded people like that, would I? You sound like a JBT LEO making up fake intimidation on the spot...

"I know for a fact..." Yeah, I bet you do. I also know for a fact that the sky is green and the grass is blue...

Whatever man. You've tooted your butt trumpet way too much. You're a jackass. Have a nice day.

A sign at the entrances? You don't say... The only sign we need here is the one Bill Engvall hands out...

This is why I like to draw out trolls. They bury themselves in their own BS.

ixtow · Dec 16, 2009

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michael1131988 wrote:

it is actually an arrestable offense due to the fact of the chance of a misfire that could be potentially fatal to another indevidual and if you are carrying and and officer asks to see your gun there is a certain way you need to hand it to him to allow him to check if there is a chambered round and if someone can find a law book with a law and ordinance code that states that you cancarry loaded.take a picture and post it. if you have taken the test for you concealed it even asks you if you can carry loaded and the answer is no. and officers can but most don't just to the fact of the chances of a misfire.

None of this is true.

P.S. - Learn to spell, use punctuation, and maybe capitalize a word at the beginning of a sentence....

N6ATF · Dec 16, 2009

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PaxMentis · Dec 16, 2009

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michael1131988 wrote:

it is actually an arrestable offense due to the fact of the chance of a misfire that could be potentially fatal to another indevidual and if you are carrying and and officer asks to see your gun there is a certain way you need to hand it to him to allow him to check if there is a chambered round and if someone can find a law book with a law and ordinance code that states that you cancarry loaded.take a picture and post it. if you have taken the test for you concealed it even asks you if you can carry loaded and the answer is no. and officers can but most don't just to the fact of the chances of a misfire.

Wrong on a bunch of counts...starting with the fact there is no "test for you[sic] concealed".

As far as this individual is concerned, without a CHL, "public buildings" are prohibited. The definition of public building is in ORS 166.360 (4) which you can find here on page 4: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oregon.pdf

Unless he had a CHL (which I seriously doubt considering his actions and demeanor as quoted in the articles about the incident), it was illegal for him to have a loaded or unloaded firearm in his possession in that building.

Grapeshot · Dec 16, 2009

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PaxMentis wrote:

michael1131988 wrote:

it is actually an arrestable offense due to the fact of the chance of a misfire that could be potentially fatal to another indevidual and if you are carrying and and officer asks to see your gun there is a certain way you need to hand it to him to allow him to check if there is a chambered round and if someone can find a law book with a law and ordinance code that states that you cancarry loaded.take a picture and post it. if you have taken the test for you concealed it even asks you if you can carry loaded and the answer is no. and officers can but most don't just to the fact of the chances of a misfire.

Click to expand...

Wrong on a bunch of counts...starting with the fact there is no "test for you[sic] concealed".

As far as this individual is concerned, without a CHL, "public buildings are prohibited. The definition of public building is in ORS 166.360 (4) which you can find here on page 4: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oregon.pdf

Unless he had a CHL (which I seriously doubt considering his actions and demeanor as quoted in the articles about the incident, it was illegal for him to have a loaded or unloaded firearm in his possession in that building.

OP has probably gone to bed by now - tomorrow is a school day.

Yata hey

Puddin99 · Dec 16, 2009

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PaxMentis, can you please cite where in ORS 166 where it defines alibary as off limits?

166.360defines:

Capitol Building as:
State Office Building
State Libary Building ******
Labor and Industries Building
State Transporation Building
Agriculture Building
Public Service Building

State Library Building******

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_State_Library

Public Building:
Hospital
Capitol Building - see above
Public/Private School
College/University
City Hall
Residence of state offical
Adjacent grounds to each guilding

There is no mention of a city or county library being off limits as a public building.

A city or county could implement restrictions on loaded firearms, but if you had a permit, you could still go in.

We-the-People · Dec 16, 2009

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For those not from Oregon, here is the law, paraphrased:

WITHOUT A CHL: Not allowed to carry a weapon, loaded or not, in a "public building" as defined by the law. The library, being an agency of the local government, is included in the definition (ORS 166.360)

WITH A CHL: Open or concealed carry is allowed just about anywhere.(ORS 166.370.3.d)

There are very few places that a person witha CHL can not carry in Oregon. Court facilities, certain tax facilities, federal buildings and leased spaces (like recruiting offices), and BEYOND the secuirity checkpoint in airports (the unsecured portion of the terminal is legal) are off limits. Schools (all publicones), colleges, malls, police departments, libraries, public streets and sidewalks, city hall, county offices, basically anything not in the first list, are all absolutely legal for a CHL holder to carry open or concealed.

STATE LAW does not prohibit the carry of a round in the chamber anywhere that the weapon can lawfully be carried. SOME CITIES (very few) have local ordinances that prohibit the carry of loaded firearms (including chambered rounds, loaded magazines, etc.) but CHL holders are exempt from any and all local ordinances. (ORS 166.173 gives that authority and exemption, there are about less than a dozen localities with such regulations). In fact, state law prohibits, in ORS 166.242, the arrest of an individual with a CHL for posession of a firearm in/on a "public building" (of course if he was doing something stupid, he could be arrested for that but the courts have clearly stated that simply carrying a holstered firearm is NOT grounds for arrest under "disturbing the peace", "causing panic", etc.)

If the man in the article had a CHL then there is a serious problem with the reporting and the "system" unless he was acting very strangely, which the article does not say. Quite often the media "interprets" simply carrying a weapon exposed creates panic, alarm,.....pick a description. If he did not have a CHL then he was in violation of state law.

Even here in Oregon the details are sparse. I have e-mailed both the local paper in Klamath Falls and the Klamath Falls police department. Most likely the short story was merely a poor job of reporting and the man either had no CHL (violation) or he wasn't simply just "presentwith a gun on his side" if he did have a CHL, but instead doing something "stupid".

Puddin99 · Dec 16, 2009

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I don't agree with your statement. There is no reference to a city or county library, only the State Libary Building.

We-the-People wrote:

For those not from Oregon, here is the law, paraphrased:

WITHOUT A CHL: Not allowed to carry a weapon, loaded or not, in a "public building" as defined by the law. The library, being an agency of the local government, is included in the definition (ORS 166.360)

WITH A CHL: Open or concealed carry is allowed just about anywhere. (ORS 166.370.3.d)

There are very few places that a person witha CHL can not carry in Oregon. Court facilities, certain tax facilities, federal buildings and leased spaces (like recruiting offices), and BEYOND the secuirity checkpoint in airports (the unsecured portion of the terminal is legal) are off limits. Schools (all publicones), colleges, malls, police departments, libraries, public streets and sidewalks, city hall, county offices, basically anything not in the first list, are all absolutely legal for a CHL holder to carry open or concealed.

STATE LAW does not prohibit the carry of a round in the chamber anywhere that the weapon can lawfully be carried. SOME CITIES (very few) have local ordinances that prohibit the carry of loaded firearms (including chambered rounds, loaded magazines, etc.) but CHL holders are exempt from any and all local ordinances. (ORS 166.173 gives that authority and exemption, there are about less than a dozen localities with such regulations). In fact, state law prohibits, in ORS 166.242, the arrest of an individual with a CHL for posession of a firearm in/on a "public building" (of course if he was doing something stupid, he could be arrested for that but the courts have clearly stated that simply carrying a holstered firearm is NOT grounds for arrest under "disturbing the peace", "causing panic", etc.)

If the man in the article had a CHL then there is a serious problem with the reporting and the "system" unless he was acting very strangely, which the article does not say. Quite often the media "interprets" simply carrying a weapon exposed creates panic, alarm,.....pick a description. If he did not have a CHL then he was in violation of state law.

Even here in Oregon the details are sparse. I have e-mailed both the local paper in Klamath Falls and the Klamath Falls police department. Most likely the short story was merely a poor job of reporting and the man either had no CHL (violation) or he wasn't simply just "presentwith a gun on his side" if he did have a CHL, but instead doing something "stupid".

PaxMentis · Dec 16, 2009

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Puddin99 wrote:

I don't agree with your statement. There is no reference to a city or county library, only the State Libary Building.

We-the-People wrote:

For those not from Oregon, here is the law, paraphrased:

WITHOUT A CHL: Not allowed to carry a weapon, loaded or not, in a "public building" as defined by the law. The library, being an agency of the local government, is included in the definition (ORS 166.360)

WITH A CHL: Open or concealed carry is allowed just about anywhere. (ORS 166.370.3.d)

There are very few places that a person witha CHL can not carry in Oregon. Court facilities, certain tax facilities, federal buildings and leased spaces (like recruiting offices), and BEYOND the secuirity checkpoint in airports (the unsecured portion of the terminal is legal) are off limits. Schools (all publicones), colleges, malls, police departments, libraries, public streets and sidewalks, city hall, county offices, basically anything not in the first list, are all absolutely legal for a CHL holder to carry open or concealed.

STATE LAW does not prohibit the carry of a round in the chamber anywhere that the weapon can lawfully be carried. SOME CITIES (very few) have local ordinances that prohibit the carry of loaded firearms (including chambered rounds, loaded magazines, etc.) but CHL holders are exempt from any and all local ordinances. (ORS 166.173 gives that authority and exemption, there are about less than a dozen localities with such regulations). In fact, state law prohibits, in ORS 166.242, the arrest of an individual with a CHL for posession of a firearm in/on a "public building" (of course if he was doing something stupid, he could be arrested for that but the courts have clearly stated that simply carrying a holstered firearm is NOT grounds for arrest under "disturbing the peace", "causing panic", etc.)

If the man in the article had a CHL then there is a serious problem with the reporting and the "system" unless he was acting very strangely, which the article does not say. Quite often the media "interprets" simply carrying a weapon exposed creates panic, alarm,.....pick a description. If he did not have a CHL then he was in violation of state law.

Even here in Oregon the details are sparse. I have e-mailed both the local paper in Klamath Falls and the Klamath Falls police department. Most likely the short story was merely a poor job of reporting and the man either had no CHL (violation) or he wasn't simply just "presentwith a gun on his side" if he did have a CHL, but instead doing something "stupid".

Click to expand...

Check Para (4) of ORS 166.360:

[align=left]ORS 166.360 Definitions for ORS 166.360 to 166.380. As used in ORS 166.360 to 166.380, unless the context requires otherwise:[/align]

[align=left](1) "Capitol building" means the Capitol, the State Office Building, the State Library Building, the Labor and Industries Building, the State Transportation Building, the Agriculture Building or the Public Service Building and includes any new buildings which may be constructed on the same grounds as an addition to the group of buildings listed in this subsection.
[/align]

[align=left](2) "Court facility" means a courthouse or that portion of any other building occupied by a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court or the Oregon Tax Court or occupied by personnel related to the operations of those courts, or in which activities related to the operations of those courts take place.[/align]

[align=left](3) "Loaded firearm" means[/align]

[align=left](a) A breech-loading firearm in which there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in or attached to the firearm including but not limited to, in a chamber, magazine or clip which is attached to the firearm.[/align]

[align=left](4) "Public building" means a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315, a college or university, a city hall or the residence of any state official elected by the state at large, and the grounds adjacent to each such building. The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility.

"Municipal corporation" is defined in 297.05 as a city, county, commission or other public governing body.
[/align]
[align=left]The whole dang law is here: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]

[/align]

Puddin99 · Dec 16, 2009

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I am aware of ORS 166.360. Can you highlight the portion of what you believe that a library is defined as a public building?

PaxMentis · Dec 16, 2009

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Puddin99 wrote:

I am aware of ORS 166.360. Can you highlight the portion of what you believe that a library is defined as a public building?

I thought I did, sorry.

The part that says "The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405. The definition in 297.045 for municipal corporation includes county. The county library is an agency of the county...a municipal corporation.

At least that is how I have always read it...and the sheriff here agrees...a very pro carry sheriff.

Puddin99 · Dec 16, 2009

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For reference of the Definitions for others:

297.405 Definitions for ORS 297.020, 297.230, 297.405 to 297.740 and 297.990. As used in ORS 297.020, 297.230, 297.405 to 297.740 and 297.990:[/b]

(1) “Accountants” means all accountants whose names are included in the roster prepared and maintained by the Oregon Board of Accountancy as required by ORS 297.670.

(2) “Accounts” means all books, papers, files, letters and records of any nature or in any form used in conducting the affairs of the municipal corporation or in recording the transactions thereof.

(3) “Board” means the Oregon Board of Accountancy.

(4) “Fiscal affairs” means and includes all activities of any nature giving rise to or resulting from financial transactions, including compliance with legal requirements applicable to the operation of a municipal corporation.

(5) “Municipal corporation” means a:

(a) City;

(b) County;

(c) Special district;

(d) Corporation, except a municipal corporation established pursuant to ORS 441.525 to 441.595, upon which is conferred powers of the state for the purpose of local government; or

(e) Public corporation, including a cooperative body formed between municipal corporations.

(6) “Public corporation” means a corporation the operation of which is subject to control by local government or its officers and which, at least in part, is organized to serve a public purpose of, and receives public funds or other support having monetary value from, such government. [1977 c.774 §2; 1979 c.286 §7; 1987 c.423 §1; 2005 c.443 §15]

---------------------

166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.[/b]

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

Of course, it is yet to be determined if he has a permit or not, but if he does, he would be exempt.

Do you agree or not?

We-the-People · Dec 16, 2009

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PaxMentis wrote:

Puddin99 wrote:

I am aware of ORS 166.360. Can you highlight the portion of what you believe that a library is defined as a public building?

Click to expand...

I thought I did, sorry.

The part that says "The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405. The definition in 297.045 for municipal corporation includes county. The county library is an agency of the county...a municipal corporation.

At least that is how I have always read it...and the sheriff here agrees...a very pro carry sheriff.

Not that I'm an expert but I concur.

Just as Rogue Community College is a "municipal corporation" and is therefore prohibited from restricting me, as a CHL holder, from carrying on campus. Yet they use the threat, which they will carry out, of expulsion under various "rules" for "challenging authority" and such.

So I carry an empty holster everywhere on campus and refuse to tell them "where's the gun" when asked. It's at home and I sure hope they violate my rights with an illegal search. We'll see how it goes next quarter as I begin taking classes during the day at the main campus in Medford.

I think after I get my degree I'll have to VISIT and be sure to have my AR-10 in the truck back window and a self defense weapon on my side. NON STUDENT, no power of the school.

Puddin99 · Dec 16, 2009

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I disagree with this also. This comes back to the teacher that wanted to bring her concealed weapon on school grounds which OFF fought for.

By having her permit a person is allowed to bring it on school grounds, in Oregon, wether a public school or college. While they lost the case, it was only because the judge believed that the school district could regulate the actions of it's employees.

With a permit in Oregon, it is completely lawful to bring a weapon on campus. As a college, they can do the same by regulating their students. It would not be unlawful, but they could kick you out of the school as a student. But as a visitor they can't do anything.

We-the-People wrote:

PaxMentis wrote:

Puddin99 wrote:

I am aware of ORS 166.360. Can you highlight the portion of what you believe that a library is defined as a public building?

Click to expand...

I thought I did, sorry.

The part that says "The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405. The definition in 297.045 for municipal corporation includes county. The county library is an agency of the county...a municipal corporation.

At least that is how I have always read it...and the sheriff here agrees...a very pro carry sheriff.

Click to expand...

Not that I'm an expert but I concur.

Just as Rogue Community College is a "municipal corporation" and is therefore prohibited from restricting me, as a CHL holder, from carrying on campus. Yet they use the threat, which they will carry out, of expulsion under various "rules" for "challenging authority" and such.

So I carry an empty holster everywhere on campus and refuse to tell them "where's the gun" when asked. It's at home and I sure hope they violate my rights with an illegal search. We'll see how it goes next quarter as I begin taking classes during the day at the main campus in Medford.

I think after I get my degree I'll have to VISIT and be sure to have my AR-10 in the truck back window and a self defense weapon on my side. NON STUDENT, no power of the school.

PaxMentis · Dec 16, 2009

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Puddin99 wrote:

---------------------

166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.[/b]

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

Of course, it is yet to be determined if he has a permit or not, but if he does, he would be exempt.

Do you agree or not?

Definitely...I have been assuming that he does not have a permit. My statement was that without a permit, he was illegal. (and crazy as hell it seems)

:celebrate

PaxMentis · Dec 16, 2009

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We-the-People wrote:

Just as Rogue Community College is a "municipal corporation" and is therefore prohibited from restricting me, as a CHL holder, from carrying on campus. Yet they use the threat, which they will carry out, of expulsion under various "rules" for "challenging authority" and such.

So I carry an empty holster everywhere on campus and refuse to tell them "where's the gun" when asked. It's at home and I sure hope they violate my rights with an illegal search. We'll see how it goes next quarter as I begin taking classes during the day at the main campus in Medford.

I think after I get my degree I'll have to VISIT and be sure to have my AR-10 in the truck back window and a self defense weapon on my side. NON STUDENT, no power of the school.

Ummm...that seriously sucks...we need to do something about that. RCC's main campus is up here and I think there is a way to cause a stink if you can get some documentation to me. There is a weekly mailer paper up here that likes to take agencies to task and that a whole lot of folks read. Email me or reach me through the NING group (I lost my link in a crash)...

We-the-People · Dec 16, 2009

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PaxMentis wrote:

We-the-People wrote:

Just as Rogue Community College is a "municipal corporation" and is therefore prohibited from restricting me, as a CHL holder, from carrying on campus. Yet they use the threat, which they will carry out, of expulsion under various "rules" for "challenging authority" and such.

So I carry an empty holster everywhere on campus and refuse to tell them "where's the gun" when asked. It's at home and I sure hope they violate my rights with an illegal search. We'll see how it goes next quarter as I begin taking classes during the day at the main campus in Medford.

I think after I get my degree I'll have to VISIT and be sure to have my AR-10 in the truck back window and a self defense weapon on my side. NON STUDENT, no power of the school.

Click to expand...

Ummm...that seriously sucks...we need to do something about that. RCC's main campus is up here and I think there is a way to cause a stink if you can get some documentation to me. There is a weekly mailer paper up here that likes to take agencies to task and that a whole lot of folks read. Email me or reach me through the NING group (I lost my link in a crash)...

I'm just guessing but I'll bet that paper is the OBSERVER. Didn't know it was weekly, we don't see new issues this way that often, more like monthly or so.

I had one course at the Redwood campus this past quarter. Left wing WACK (as opposed to left or liberal non wack) instructor. I'm waiting to see my course grade as I got a B, B+, and my final was seriously in trouble (eng comp) because she didn't like my topic for the argumentative paper. There WILL be a complaint filed regardless of the grade. We had 2 weeks of 10 that we didn't even have a class held!!!!!

I'll try to get you the NING link through the site or PM it to you here.

UPDATE: Got the "report card" through the online system and the grade came out a B overall which drags my GPA from 4.0 to 3.5. Now I just need my paper back so that I can use the comments on it in my complaint to the department head. She made some comments that are very easy to show were false and prejudicial.

Man arrested for open carry at a Klamath County, OR Library

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