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Thread: State Supreme Court re: Police Seizure

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    The State Supreme Court overturned the trial court and the appellate court on the subject of whether Harrington was illegally seized.

    Law enforcement officers arrested petitioner Dustin Warren Harrington after patting him down and finding a glass pipe in his pocket. The State contends the search was consensual and flowed from a valid social contact. Harrington asserts police officers unconstitutionally seized him
    Requesting to frisk is inconsistent with a mere social contact. If [officer] Reiber felt jittery about the bulges in Harrington's pockets, he should have terminated the encounter -- which Reiber initiated -- and walked back to his patrol car. Instead Reiber requested a frisk.
    http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/in...name=817197MAJ



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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Yay for our Constitution.... shame on the Tyrants in the State for defending this crap.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Do I read this correctly that it was unanimous?

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    "We conclude the officers' actions, when viewed cumulatively,

    impermissibly disturbed Harrington's private affairs without authority of law

    and therefore constituted an unlawful seizure. Article I, section 7 cannot

    tolerate the officers' progressive intrusion into Harrington's privacy"



    its about time someone stands up for the right of the people

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    That's the way I read it. Nine - zip. A slam dunk.

    I love Art. 1, sec. 7.

    But, why wait for a court to determine if you are detained? Just ask, "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" Then keep your mouth shut, and politely refuse any requests for a search of your person or property.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    It is a shame that children are taught from preschool that all cops are good and to always trust them and that all guns are bad and people who "play" with guns are bad (except for the guns that cops carry, of course).
    Eh, I didn't go to preschool, but in elementary school they just said don't touch guns or ammo, tell an adult. Oh, and that if you drop ammo, it can go off. WTF well I suppose anything's possible...

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    N6ATF wrote:
    Eh, I didn't go to preschool, but in elementary school they just said don't touch guns or ammo, tell an adult. Oh, and that if you drop ammo, it can go off. WTF well I suppose anything's possible...
    I guess the medicine for such "educating" is for parents to teach their kids to ask their teacher,

    "Ma'am? What are your qualifications for teaching this material?"

    "Has this material been vetted by a recognized expert in the field?"

    Etc. I'm sure someone can come up with a better question.

    I like the court decision. I don't have a smiley big enough--it would crack my screen.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I can recall seeing a "teacher?" standing in the driveway to the bus letoff point at te So Kitsap High several years ago. This "teacher" was holding a sign that stated.......... BUSSESS ONLY. How about that for qualified teachers?

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    I can recall seeing a "teacher?" standing in the driveway to the bus letoff point at te So Kitsap High several years ago. This "teacher" was holding a sign that stated.......... BUSSESS ONLY. How about that for qualified teachers?
    This is sadly not a surprise. My highschool had some amazing teachers but there were some astounding duds too.

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    What a great opinion....I'm really looking forward toState v. Sieyes, No. 82154-2 about how young RKBA protections go and what level of protection is needed. I think that "reasonable regulation" is out the window and possibly strict is in...anyway...this will be a win in some way. Check out the video in the link.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    +1 For our rights.

    NavyLT wrote:
    It is a shame that children are taught from preschool that all cops are good and to always trust them and that all guns are bad and people who "play" with guns are bad (except for the guns that cops carry, of course).
    This is why I taught my children when problems arise call police or teachers or other "authorities" but never give out personal information about themselves or family.

    As they get older I let them know that these "authorities" are not all good and don't always have our best interest at heart, and to never talk to them without their parents at hand.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    It is a shame that children are taught from preschool that all cops are good and to always trust them ...
    It took me a long time to figure out that Mom was wrong about that one (same for, "don't go swimming for an hour after you eat"). There were a bunch of other "Mom-isms". I loved her, but boy did she give me some bad information.

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    There were a bunch of other "Mom-isms". I loved her, but boy did she give me some bad information.
    Don't forget:

    "quit making that face, or it'll get stuck like that":P

    "don't sit tht close to the TV, it'll make you cross-eyed":shock:

    "keep it up and you'll poke your brain and you'll be retarded forever!"
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Yup, all of those. Funny stuff!

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    This looks like a print-and-carry-with-you, if you're that type.

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    no seizure where officer asked defendant to remove hands from pockets and then asked him two questions, because this was no more intrusive than asking for identification).

    When are they going to recognize that an officer demanding identification for no reason is an intrusion?!

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    cynicist wrote:
    no seizure where officer asked defendant to remove hands from pockets and then asked him two questions, because this was no more intrusive than asking for identification).

    When are they going to recognize that an officer demanding identification for no reason is an intrusion?!
    If you are walking down the street and a LEO stops you like the story above, you are under no requirement to provide them with identification.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    David.Car wrote:
    cynicist wrote:
    no seizure where officer asked defendant to remove hands from pockets and then asked him two questions, because this was no more intrusive than asking for identification).

    When are they going to recognize that an officer demanding identification for no reason is an intrusion?!
    If you are walking down the street and a LEO stops you like the story above, you are under no requirement to provide them with identification.
    Why I mostly carry sterile. I don't walk around with my I.D. or CPL if I am open carrying.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    David.Car wrote:
    cynicist wrote:
    no seizure where officer asked defendant to remove hands from pockets and then asked him two questions, because this was no more intrusive than asking for identification).

    When are they going to recognize that an officer demanding identification for no reason is an intrusion?!
    If you are walking down the street and a LEO stops you like the story above, you are under no requirement to provide them with identification.
    Why I mostly carry sterile. I don't walk around with my I.D. or CPL if I am open carrying.
    Just wondering about the logistics of this...do you leave your id and CPL in your vehicle so that they are available when needed? If asked whether you have "a permit for that gun" do you say, "no" or, "I don't need one..."

    What kind of inconvenience has carrying sterile caused for you? For example, if I made a habit of it, I would eventually visit the liquor store without ID.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    kito109654 wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    David.Car wrote:
    cynicist wrote:
    no seizure where officer asked defendant to remove hands from pockets and then asked him two questions, because this was no more intrusive than asking for identification).

    When are they going to recognize that an officer demanding identification for no reason is an intrusion?!
    If you are walking down the street and a LEO stops you like the story above, you are under no requirement to provide them with identification.
    Why I mostly carry sterile. I don't walk around with my I.D. or CPL if I am open carrying.
    Just wondering about the logistics of this...do you leave your id and CPL in your vehicle so that they are available when needed? If asked whether you have "a permit for that gun" do you say, "no" or, "I don't need one..."

    What kind of inconvenience has carrying sterile caused for you? For example, if I made a habit of it, I would eventually visit the liquor store without ID.
    The last couple of times TPD asked to see my ID while I was carrying openly, l politely refused. There's nothing in the law that says you have to show ID if you have it, but don't have to show ID if you don't have it. Yes, it's a bit awkward to refuse because they're going to immediately ask you why. The best answer to that question is, "Am I free to leave?"

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Mainsail wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    David.Car wrote:
    cynicist wrote:
    no seizure where officer asked defendant to remove hands from pockets and then asked him two questions, because this was no more intrusive than asking for identification).

    When are they going to recognize that an officer demanding identification for no reason is an intrusion?!
    If you are walking down the street and a LEO stops you like the story above, you are under no requirement to provide them with identification.
    Why I mostly carry sterile. I don't walk around with my I.D. or CPL if I am open carrying.
    Just wondering about the logistics of this...do you leave your id and CPL in your vehicle so that they are available when needed? If asked whether you have "a permit for that gun" do you say, "no" or, "I don't need one..."

    What kind of inconvenience has carrying sterile caused for you? For example, if I made a habit of it, I would eventually visit the liquor store without ID.
    The last couple of times TPD asked to see my ID while I was carrying openly, l politely refused. There's nothing in the law that says you have to show ID if you have it, but don't have to show ID if you don't have it. Yes, it's a bit awkward to refuse because they're going to immediately ask you why. The best answer to that question is, "Am I free to leave?"
    Yep, and if you know you are going somewhere were you are going to be I.D.ed then carry it in. Otherwise it stays in the car.

    Only time I have been asked if I had a permit were by civilians, I reply don't need one. Most times it opens the door and folks walk away more enlightened to their rights.

    The Bellingham Police tried to make a big deal and an inconvenience for me for not carrying my I.D. they now leave me alone and others here in B'ham too.

    On this point to those who say just 'cooperate' if I had the harrassment would have continued for not only me but others who are now zealously open carrying in Bellingham. Ask Tyguy how our last "police encounter" went. It truly was just a freindly consentual encounter and they went on their way.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Understood. Thanks for your responses, guys! I'll probably just keep it with me and refuse to show it.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    kito109654 wrote:
    Understood. Thanks for your responses, guys! I'll probably just keep it with me and refuse to show it.
    If you do this hide it. Even if they illegally grab your wallet like they did mine they can't find it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    Understood. Thanks for your responses, guys! I'll probably just keep it with me and refuse to show it.
    If you do this hide it. Even if they illegally grab your wallet like they did mine they can't find it.
    Double-side tape it to your back. :celebrate

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    Understood. Thanks for your responses, guys! I'll probably just keep it with me and refuse to show it.
    If you do this hide it. Even if they illegally grab your wallet like they did mine they can't find it.
    Holy @#$%! Why did they do that? I would be so pissed that there might be a reason to take my pistol from me.:P

    Okay then, maybe I won't carry it on me when I OC. Yikes.



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