handgun sale in CT

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I have a question about selling a handgun in CT. I haven't come across this yet but I would assume it might be more common than I think. Can a person without a carry permit sell a handgun to another individual who has a hangun permit? For example, Say someone moves to CT from some other state and moves a handgun with their personal belongings to their new home. They don't bother to get a pistol permit for whatever reason and keep the gun in their house. They decide to sell the handgun to a person with a valid permit in CT. Is this allowed? Can you get a DPS authorization number over the phone with the seller not having a permit or does a transaction like this need to go through a FFL for some reason?

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Don't ALL handgun sales have to go thru an FFL?

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In state (CT)sales can be made from a private party to another private party with a simple phone call and an authorization number given from the DPS along with two forms filled out (one in four copies) and mailed to appropriate agencies.

I just don't know ifa privateselling party must have a CT permit number or not.

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Take the ride to Vermont for lunch and conduct your business over a decent meal. The firearm belongs to the current owner on the way to lunch and the new owner owns the weapon on the way home.

Done Deal.

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Edward Peruta wrote:

Take the ride to Vermont for lunch and conduct your business over a decent meal. The firearm belongs to the current owner on the way to lunch and the new owner owns the weapon on the way home.

Done Deal.

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How is this possible? I am at a loss trying to figure out how this can be legal.

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ESCH wrote:

In state (CT)sales can be made from a private party to another private party with a simple phone call and an authorization number given from the DPS along with two forms filled out (one in four copies) and mailed to appropriate agencies.

I just don't know ifa privateselling party must have a CT permit number or not.

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Nice. I learn something new every time I come here.


In my perusing the DPS website:

[font="Verdana,Arial,Geneva"]You can only buy a handgun in Connecticut, if in addition to being a resident, you have a valid Permit to carry Pistols or Revolvers, a valid Eligibility Certificate, if you are a licensed Firearms Dealer or if you are a Sworn Police Officer.

ADPS-67-C and aDPS-3-C (4 copies) must be completed. The seller of the handgun must contact the Special Licensing and Firearms Unit at (860) 685-8400, or 1-(888) 335-8438 and obtain an authorization number for that sale. This number is to be added to both forms. The DPS-67-C is to be retained by the seller for 20 years. The seller should retain the original copy for their records, give one copy to the purchaser as a receipt, submit one copy to the local police authority where the purchaser resides and submit a final copy to the Commissioner of Public Safety.

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[/font]

Pistol Permit: to carry a pistol
Eligibility Cert: to buy a pistol

There doesnt seem to be any required documentation for OWNING a pistol. The only thing i might question is the DPS-3 has a space for your #...but if you don't have one...?

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Thanks Ed. Thought that might be the case.

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Edward Peruta wrote:

Take the ride to Vermont for lunch and conduct your business over a decent meal. The firearm belongs to the current owner on the way to lunch and the new owner owns the weapon on the way home.

Done Deal.

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Since state lines are being crossed, an FFL has to be involved.

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Actually, If both are residents of CT there are no state lines being crossed. Doesn't matter where the transaction itself takes place. Simply have to transport weapon in appropiate manner to CT.

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ESCH wrote:

I have a question about selling a handgun in CT. I haven't come across this yet but I would assume it might be more common than I think. Can a person without a carry permit sell a handgun to another individual who has a hangun permit? For example, Say someone moves to CT from some other state and moves a handgun with their personal belongings to their new home. They don't bother to get a pistol permit for whatever reason and keep the gun in their house. They decide to sell the handgun to a person with a valid permit in CT. Is this allowed? Can you get a DPS authorization number over the phone with the seller not having a permit or does a transaction like this need to go through a FFL for some reason?

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This is all perfectly fine and correct. I am 100% sure of it. As long as the seller owns the gun legally in CT. You stated one scenario above.

Another scenario might be someone who owned the gun before the requirement to have either a pistol permit or an eligibility certificate went into effect. (I believe before about 1995, but don't hold me to it)

Still another scenario, probably the most common scenario is someone who USED TO have a pistol permit who has let it lapse. When the permit expires they still own the guns legally, however they are very restricted as to where they can bring them. (to a dealer for sale, to a gunsmith for repair, etc)

So there are no requirments on the seller. As stated above, the buyer must have a pistol permit or a eligibility certificate.

No dealer is require for the transaction. Follow the instructions on the DPS web site, get the approval number, file the forms with the appropriate authorities and retain copies per the record retention requirements and you are good.

Don

Don

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Edward Peruta wrote:

Take the ride to Vermont for lunch and conduct your business over a decent meal. The firearm belongs to the current owner on the way to lunch and the new owner owns the weapon on the way home.

Done Deal.

Click to expand...

This would be illegal, not because of the transaction happening out of state. (actually , maybe, but I just don't know)

I do know that if the seller who did not have a pistol permit transported the firearm to VT he would be breaking the law while he was in CT and MA.

Don

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dcmdon wrote:

Edward Peruta wrote:

Take the ride to Vermont for lunch and conduct your business over a decent meal. The firearm belongs to the current owner on the way to lunch and the new owner owns the weapon on the way home.

Done Deal.

Click to expand...

This would be illegal, not because of the transaction happening out of state. (actually , maybe, but I just don't know)

I do know that if the seller who did not have a pistol permit transported the firearm to VT he would be breaking the law while he was in CT and MA.

Don

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Does this mean without a CT permit, you're not allowed to transport a pistol unloaded and locked in the trunk with the ammo in a separate container? That kinda sucks.

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That is correct.

Without a pistol permit you are allowed only to bring a handgun to and from a dealer for purchase and resale, and to a gunsmith for repairs.

Note that the statute says you can carry through CT for the purposes of competition or training. That does not mean that a CT resident can take a class or compete with out a permit.

See below for details of the statute. I edited out some parts for brevity. For the statute in its entirety go here:

http://search.cga.state.ct.us/dlsurs/sur/htm/chap529.htm#Sec29-35.htm

Hope this helps,

Don

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28.

or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business,

or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another,

or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired

or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired,

or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides,

"transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

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dcmdon wrote:

Edward Peruta wrote:

Take the ride to Vermont for lunch and conduct your business over a decent meal. The firearm belongs to the current owner on the way to lunch and the new owner owns the weapon on the way home.

Done Deal.

Click to expand...

This would be illegal, not because of the transaction happening out of state. (actually , maybe, but I just don't know)

I do know that if the seller who did not have a pistol permit transported the firearm to VT he would be breaking the law while he was in CT and MA.

Don

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Are you certain about that? I believe the statutes allow an individual to transport a handgun as merchandise legally without a permit, provided its unloaded.
Its almost certainly against the law to go thru NYS or MA on your way to VT but even that may not be correct since federal law allows you to go thru a place as long as you are legal where you started from as well as where you are going.

I quoted this excerpt from your link, it came from directly ahead of the part about not needing a permit to bring it from the store to your home.

, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise,

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Okay I am speaking from expierance and have researched the laws for CT and Federal six ways to next Sunday if anyone wishes me to cite statues I can do that as well.

First, If you are legally allowed to posses a firearm in the state you lived in example Virginia and you move to CT. Federal law allows you to transport that firearm locked, unloaded, and in your trunk. To your new state of residance ie Connecticut. You are allowed to keep a handgun in your home, but can never take it out of your home unless you move out of state or you have a CT Permit.

Second, a non CT permit holder can sell a firearm to a CT permit holder only after filling out DPS paperwork calling the firearms unit of the state and getting an authorization number. The transaction will have to be completed at your home technically. Cause you can not transport the gun in your vehicle without a permit.

The transaction has to be completed within your state of residance and both the purchaser and seller have to be residents of the same state or you have to use an FFL. Could you both go to Vermont and do the transaction sure but CT law applies to the transaction cause you are both residents of CT. An FFL in Vermont will not do the transaction for you either cause you both are residents of CT.

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dcmdon wrote:

That is correct.

Without a pistol permit you are allowed only to bring a handgun to and from a dealer for purchase and resale, and to a gunsmith for repairs.


Don

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28.

or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business,

or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another,

or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired

or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired,

or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides,

"transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

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This law is partially stupid cause you can not purchase a handgun from a dealer in CT without a permit.

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Jay wrote:

dcmdon wrote:

That is correct.

Without a pistol permit you are allowed only to bring a handgun to and from a dealer for purchase and resale, and to a gunsmith for repairs.


Don

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28.

or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business,

or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another,

or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired

or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired,

or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides,

"transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

Click to expand...

This law is partially stupid cause you can not purchase a handgun from a dealer in CT without a permit.

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Its not really stupid as it predates the permit requirement which came about I believe in 94. I bought several pistols without a permit prior to the law. You can also buy a pistol right now without a permit if you have an eligibility certificate which you can get without dealing with local police & the suitability thing. Unlike a carry permit in CT the eligibility certificate is shall issue instead of may issue.

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Double post

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Re the shall issue aspect of an eligibility certificate. I've always told my pistol permit students to just get the full permit.

I understood the eligibility certificate had all the same requirements as the full carry permit. i.e. NRA basic handgun class, fingerprint, background check.

Do you have a statute I can look at?

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It has all of the requirements except dealing with the local issuing authority. You apply directly to the state and as long as you are not a prohibited person, they must issue you an EC.

CGS § 29-36f through 36i
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-36f.htm

Sec. 29-36f. Eligibility certificate for pistol or revolver. (a) Any person who is twenty-one years of age or older may apply to the Commissioner of Public Safety for an eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver.

(b) The Commissioner of Public Safety shall issue an eligibility certificate unless said commissioner finds that the applicant: (1) Has failed to successfully complete a course approved by the Commissioner of Public Safety in the safety and use of pistols and revolvers including, but not limited to, a safety or training course in the use of pistols and revolvers available to the public offered by a law enforcement agency, a private or public educational institution or a firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Environmental Protection and a safety or training course in the use of pistols or revolvers conducted by an instructor certified by the state or the National Rifle Association; (2) has been convicted of a felony or of a violation of subsection (c) of section 21a-279, section 53a-58, 53a-61, 53a-61a, 53a-62, 53a-63, 53a-96, 53a-175, 53a-176, 53a-178 or 53a-181d; (3) has been convicted as delinquent for the commission of a serious juvenile offense, as defined in section 46b-120; (4) has been discharged from custody within the preceding twenty years after having been found not guilty of a crime by reason of mental disease or defect pursuant to section 53a-13; (5) has been confined in a hospital for persons with psychiatric disabilities, as defined in section 17a-495, within the preceding twelve months by order of a probate court; (6) is subject to a restraining or protective order issued by a court in a case involving the use, attempted use or threatened use of physical force against another person; (7) is subject to a firearms seizure order issued pursuant to subsection (d) of section 29-38c after notice and hearing; (8) is prohibited from shipping, transporting, possessing or receiving a firearm pursuant to 18 USC 922(g)(4); or (9) is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States.

Sec. 29-36g. Application for eligibility certificate. Criminal history records check. Deadline for approval or denial of application. Form of certificate. Change of address. Confidentiality of name and address of certificate holder. Scope of certificate. (a) Requests for eligibility certificates under section 29-36f shall be submitted to the Commissioner of Public Safety on application forms prescribed by the commissioner. No eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver shall be issued under the provisions of said section unless the applicant for such certificate gives to the Commissioner of Public Safety, upon the commissioner's request, full information concerning the applicant's criminal record and relevant information concerning the applicant's mental health history. The commissioner shall require each applicant to submit to state and national criminal history records checks. The commissioner shall take a full description of such applicant. The commissioner shall take the fingerprints of such applicant or conduct any other method of positive identification required by the State Police Bureau of Identification or the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The commissioner shall record the date the fingerprints were taken in the applicant's file and shall conduct criminal history records checks in accordance with section 29-17a. The commissioner shall, within sixty days of receipt of the national criminal history records check from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, either approve the application and issue the eligibility certificate or deny the application and notify the applicant of the reason for such denial in writing.

(b) (1) With respect to any application for an eligibility certificate filed with the Commissioner of Public Safety on or before July 1, 1995, the commissioner shall, not later than October 1, 1995, (A) approve the application and issue the eligibility certificate, (B) issue a temporary eligibility certificate, or (C) deny the application and notify the applicant of the reason for such denial in writing.

(2) With respect to any application for an eligibility certificate filed with the Commissioner of Public Safety after July 1, 1995, the commissioner shall, within ninety days, (A) approve the application and issue the eligibility certificate, (B) issue a temporary eligibility certificate, or (C) deny the application and notify the applicant of the reason for such denial in writing.

(3) A temporary certificate issued under this subsection shall be valid until such time as the commissioner either approves or denies the application.

(c) An eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver shall be of such form and content as the commissioner may prescribe, shall be signed by the certificate holder and shall contain an identification number, the name, address, place and date of birth, height, weight and eye color of the certificate holder and a full-face photograph of the certificate holder.

(d) A person holding an eligibility certificate issued by the commissioner shall notify the commissioner within two business days of any change of his address. The notification shall include his old address and his new address.

(e) Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 1-210 and 1-211, the name and address of a person issued an eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver under the provisions of section 29-36f shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed, except (1) such information may be disclosed to law enforcement officials acting in the performance of their duties, (2) the Commissioner of Public Safety may disclose such information to the extent necessary to comply with a request made pursuant to section 29-33 for verification that such certificate is still valid and has not been suspended or revoked, and (3) such information may be disclosed to the Commissioner of Mental Health and Addiction Services to carry out the provisions of subsection (c) of section 17a-500.

(f) An eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver shall not authorize the holder thereof to carry a pistol or revolver upon his person in circumstances for which a permit to carry a pistol or revolver issued pursuant to subsection (b) of section 29-28 is required under section 29-35.

Sec. 29-36h. Fee for eligibility certificate. Expiration and renewal of eligibility certificate. (a) The fee for each eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver originally issued under the provisions of section 29-36f shall be thirty-five dollars and for each renewal thereof thirty-five dollars, which fees shall be paid to the Commissioner of Public Safety. Upon deposit of such fees in the General Fund, the fees shall be credited to the appropriation to the Department of Public Safety to a separate nonlapsing account for the purposes of the issuance of eligibility certificates under said section.

(b) An eligibility certificate originally issued under the provisions of section 29-36f, shall expire five years after the date it becomes effective and each renewal thereof shall expire five years after the expiration date of the certificate being renewed.

(c) The renewal fee shall apply for each renewal which is requested not earlier than thirty-one days before, and not later than thirty-one days after, the expiration date of the certificate being renewed.

(d) No fee or portion thereof paid under the provisions of this section for issuance or renewal of an eligibility certificate shall be refundable except if the eligibility certificate for which the fee or portion thereof was paid was not issued or renewed.

(e) The Commissioner of Public Safety shall send a notice of the expiration of an eligibility certificate issued pursuant to section 29-36f, to the holder of such certificate, by first class mail, at the address of such person as shown by the records of the commissioner, not less than ninety days before such expiration, and shall enclose therein a form for the renewal of said certificate. An eligibility certificate issued pursuant to said section, shall be valid for a period of ninety days from the expiration date, except this provision shall not apply to any certificate which has been revoked or for which revocation is pending, pursuant to section 29-36i.


Sec. 29-36i. Revocation of eligibility certificate. (a) Any eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver shall be revoked by the Commissioner of Public Safety upon the occurrence of any event which would have disqualified the holder from being issued the certificate pursuant to section 29-36f.

(b) Upon the revocation of any eligibility certificate, the person whose eligibility certificate is revoked shall be notified in writing and such certificate shall be forthwith delivered to the Commissioner of Public Safety. Any person who fails to surrender such certificate within five days of notification in writing of revocation thereof shall be guilty of a class C misdemeanor.