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Thread: Exercise our 1a rights to support our 2a rights!

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Ok team....

    I have stolen this idea from the general 'Why I Carry' section... because I think it is exellent and well thought out!

    I recently saw a post in one of the threads here (in one of the State sections, I think...) where someone recommended that OC'ers go to their respective City Council meetings and during the "Public Comments" time of the meetings, inform their local City Council and LEOs that they will be OCing, and that unlawful harassment or infringement of their rights will not be acceptable. He argued that since such announcements are entered into the public record, that it is just one more way for us, as OCers, to cover our legal behinds, and that it removes the excuse from local LEO's that they didn't know who we are or why we were carrying...

    So I propose this:

    We're always barking on this forum about our 2A rights, but it seems that few of us have taken the opportunity to publicly exercise our 1A rights in support and defense of our RKBA. Perhaps we could draft "statements" for each state, citing statute and case law in support of Open Carry, and take this guy's advise and enter these statements into the Public Record. If EVERYONE who was OCing did this, it would produce a number of results--all positive in my opinion:

    1) local LEO's and governments would be officially ON NOTICE that harassment and unlawful detention and searches will NOT be tolerated, and will be met with legal action, as they are in violation of State statutes, Federal Law ("color of law" prohibitions), and Case Law, and

    2) The perceived numbers of law-abiding citizens who are OCers would be greatly increased in the eyes of our elected officials, and that would show them that we're not just a few lone gun-nuts, but a growing, vibrant, and well-educated segment of the population, and

    3) It serves to cover our butts, because such statements entered into the public record become legally binding to the government and to local LEO's, and erase their "we didn't know who you were or what you were doing" excuse for stopping us and intimidating us for lawful OC.

    I'm drafting my own statement (and publishing it here for comment), and planing to attend the City Council Meetings in Washington NC and Greenville NC (where I live, and where I do most of my shopping) at their next sessions in January. If there are any OCers who want to join me, any support would be appreciated.

    However, please be advised that the Washington NC City Council meetings are held in the Municipal Building, which also houses the City Jail, and therefore is a "no carry zone". I'm still researching Greenville's meeting site...



    Imagine, if just 5 people did this in every town. They would think it was a trend.

    Imagine if 10 people did this in every town--they might think it was some sort of organization.

    And imagine if 100 people--yes, 100 people went to their City Council Meetings, announced that they were OC'ers, and walked out--they'd think it was a movement...


    (apologies to Arlo Guthrie, and "Alice's Restaurant"...)
    Live Free or Die!

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    Yup, saw that too and liked it. I'm not super confident at how it all works but tell me where to go and when and I'll do my part.

    As far as the "covering our butts" part, does that apply the same way here in WA? Does it give us a better legal standing if we are harassed in some way by local authorities?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    So lets do this in Seattle.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Lets do it in Spokane as well



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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    So lets do this in Seattle.
    I'm so down for that.

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    So lets do this in Seattle.

    let me know when you go!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am up for this, we are not breaking any laws since Seattle's law is preempted by the state. I don't feel a small crowd will make a dent we need a larger gathering.

    So if you folks are serious we should start planning, I also feel not announcing the location is vital also.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I am up for this, we are not breaking any laws since Seattle's law is preempted by the state. I don't feel a small crowd will make a dent we need a larger gathering.

    So if you folks are serious we should start planning, I also feel not announcing the location is vital also.
    Why would it be illegal to voice our opinion at a City Council meeting?

    PM chain for location and date? Sure, but why is that important?

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    I believe wha SVG is talking about is heading to a park or recreational facility. Which would NOT be illegal, but we all seen what happened when Warden announced what he was doing, in public.

    I believe that if 20 or so guys showed up at Mertyl Edwards Park, OC'ing, unannounced, that the parks department wouldn't have the stones to try to eject them. Parks would call the cops and we'd find out what exactly SPD thinks of the ban.
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    I wondered...because that's a different thread. I think you're right but I have my doubts that even 15 people from this group have the stones to try it.

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    I also think that there aren't alot of people here that would travel that far to make a point, or possibly go to jail. I truly believe that if it were closer to alot of guys homes that this group COULD put together a large enough contingent to make this happen. But, I think we have alot of country folk here that couldn't care less about Seattle. Maybe Seattle should be it's own state.
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    That's a shame.

    I enjoy spending a day in Seattle every now and then, lots of good places to go for a date.

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I'm in Seattle and up for it!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Me too. I have the stones.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    I work here in Seattle, so I'm game, If a date was to be set.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    So far we got six. I feel we need a lot more than that. This issue has divided some on this board who are waiting for SAF/to save us. Yet Noone has stated how this would hurt our cause. I for one feel it will further our cause.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I also think that if this is done it should be done at different meetings. If 2 or 3 people show up at this weeks council meeting and next week someone else shows up and the following week another, perhaps a wife or girlfriend....

    You get the point, it will look more normal if there are many different groups.

    I am game for both Seattle and my hometown here in Federal Way.
    Live Free or Die!

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    I also think that if this is done it should be done at different meetings. If 2 or 3 people show up at this weeks council meeting and next week someone else shows up and the following week another, perhaps a wife or girlfriend....

    You get the point, it will look more normal if there are many different groups.

    I am game for both Seattle and my hometown here in Federal Way.
    I have a hard time making it to Seattle I will for a open carry picnic.

    But you should keep this thread open and update the differant times for city council meetings, and go if you can or invite others too. You have a great idea here.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Count me in for Seattle!

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    This is relevant to my interests... I'll keep an eye on this thread for a date. If I don't have work or school I'll do my best to make it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    This just means we can all gather OC outside, check in our firearms, and speak our mind. This sounds like a great plan to me.

    gogodawgs wrote:

    However, please be advised that the Washington NC City Council meetings are held in the Municipal Building, which also houses the City Jail, and therefore is a "no carry zone". I'm still researching Greenville's meeting site...

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Aryk45XD wrote:
    This just means we can all gather OC outside, check in our firearms, and speak our mind. This sounds like a great plan to me.

    gogodawgs wrote:

    However, please be advised that the Washington NC City Council meetings are held in the Municipal Building, which also houses the City Jail, and therefore is a "no carry zone". I'm still researching Greenville's meeting site...
    hey Aryk45XD please note that gogodawgsquote is from a post in "no. carolina"!! you must check the washington state laws about the building that the meeting will be held in. i havent looked but you very well may be able to open carry while you tell the councel what you have on your mind! i dont know, and i wont be going, but id like to know what you folks find out about open carry, and the availlability of lock boxes at that location.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Ok, I am going to try and start posting city council dates and pertinent information for January.

    I am going to start with my home town of Federal Way. Next meeting is January 5th at 7pm. Citizens are limited to 3 minutes speaking time. I will be preparing my speach. It appears that the city makes a video and posts it online of thier meetings. If there are others who would like to be in attendance let me know.








    City Council Meetings:
    City Council meetings are held on the 1st and 3rd Tuesday of each month at 7:00 p.m. in Council Chambers at City Hall. The agenda and Council packets are available online and at City Hall on the Friday prior to the upcoming meeting.

    Meeting minutes are posted online following approval at the next regular meeting. The meeting agenda consists of presentations, citizen comment time, consent agenda (items previously reviewed at the Committee level), public hearings, council business, ordinances, reports and executive sessions. All meetings, except executive sessions, are open to the public.
    Meeting agendas,minutes, and videosare available on the Public Meeting Minutes and Agendas page. Notifications of City Council information via email can be obtained through the City's e-subscribe system.For further information contactCarol McNeilly, City Clerk at 253-85-2540
    or email
    carol.mcneilly@cityoffederalway.com.

    Live Free or Die!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Lante's Avatar
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    Just a thought on commenting at city council meetings. Sounds like a good idea, if the members of the OCDO group present well. (I am sure everyone will. )

    As we have seen the media use public shootings to advance gun control, we should use it to support open carry. Maybe something along these lines?
    Like an estimated 44 million other law abiding Americans I have been carrying a firearm for ____ yrs, in light of the recent police shootings, by those who choose to live outside the law, I come here to inform this council, our police, and the citizens of _______ that I will be carrying my firearm openly in support of our police and civilized society.
    I suspect a supportive statement, coupled with an appearance appropriate to a council meeting would get our position on record in a positive non confrontational manner.



    *statistic from http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt
    Code:
    Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms. 
    
    Series: NIJ Research in Brief
    Published: May 1997
    20 pages
    41,893 bytes
    
    National Institute of Justice
    Research in Brief
    
    Jeremy Travis, Director
    May 1997

  25. #25
    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I think this could be something much bigger. Who would stop a lot of us from from voicing our rights??? at least until we had the time to put it on record and leave in peace? There would be so much awe that I think it would really smack them into waking up. What kind of BG would try anything if everyone was peacefully carrying, with only the people's best interest at stake? I love the ideas floating here, and I know this could be big.

    Edit: I'm new to WA AND carry, but had them since I was 10... military and all. Anyway, I'm here and ready to settle in this state, but don't know much about it. I think I've already convinced others to carry and love feeling safe.

    PS, Dedicating this to my Grandfather: Sandoval R.I.P.


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