View Poll Results: Do you think a new statute is required?

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  • No, an absolute prohibition of firearms on campus is a good thing.

    0 0%
  • No, Article I, Section 13 of the Virginia Constitution is self-executing, and already prohibits any "infringement" of any citizen's right to keep and bear arms.

    13 37.14%
  • No, what we need is a lawsuit to enforce 15.2-915, particularly in light of the award of attorneys' fees provision recently added.

    7 20.00%
  • No, we just need to get more active in the judicial selection process that takes place in the legislature.

    2 5.71%
  • Yes, we need to make it clearer that section 15.2-915 applies to public colleges and universities.

    10 28.57%
  • Yes, we need to systematize all these various statutes regarding firearms in one title of the code in order to replace the patchwork mess we've got now.

    3 8.57%
  • I don't agree with any of these options and have my own ideas about solving the problem of gun related crime on college campuses.

    0 0%
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Thread: Va Tech revisited

  1. #1
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    Exposed: Virginia Tech officials took care of themselves after ensuring the kids in their care could not

    Submitted by cbaus on Wed, 12/09/2009 - 00:05.

    By Jim Irvine

    New evidence about the 2007 Virginia Tech killings shed new light on the arrogance and hypritical stance of University leaders. The murder of 32 students was the worst mass shooting in U.S. history until the Ft. Hood massacre last month and remains the worst school shooting ever on U.S. soil.

    Virginia Tech is no stranger to violence. They had two shootings in the 2006-2007 school year. A student worried about the possibility of another shooting asked school officials to reconsider their "no guns" policy. School officials not only rebuffed and mocked that request, they also cheered the defeat of a bill that would have allowed their students to defend their own lives with a gun on campus.

    Soon after, in the middle of a killing spree, when their concern should have been focused 100% on the very students they rendered helpless, school officials focused on themselves and their families, waiting over an hour to share information with the students who would soon die.

    From the Associated Press:

    Some Virginia Tech officials warned their own families and the president's office was locked down well before a campus-wide alert was issued in the 2007 slayings of 32 people, according to a revised state report that details new fumbles in the response to the worst mass shooting in U.S. history.

    One student survived several hours after being shot without anyone notifying her family until she had died, said the updated report, released Friday.

    At least two officials with a crisis response team called their family members after the first shootings at a dorm and about 90 minutes before the all-campus alert was issued at 9:26 a.m.. The president's office was locked down at 8:52 a.m. and two academic buildings were also shut down before the general alert.

    Not just any officials, but at least two that were part of the "crisis response team" called their family members but did nothing for those who were soon to be murder victims. The president's office was quickly locked down, but he didn't find time to even let his students know about the impending danger. He obviously cares a lot more about himself than his teachers or students.

    It is widely accepted that nothing is more stressful than the loss of your child. Grieving parents now know that the officials whose job it is to protect those in their care, ignored logic, student requests, and a wealth of evidence in defending their victim disarmament policy. Now we know they didn't even take the time to notify those precious youth who they themselves rendered helpless, of a threat so great that officials secured themselves then called their own family. Nothing could be more disgusting

    Virginian Governor Tim Kaine called the actions of school officials "inexcusable." "If university officials thought it was important enough to notify their own families, they should have let everyone know," he said.

    To illustrate just how little they cared for the people in their care, consider Emily Hilscher, who was shot in the dorm lived for hours in a hospital. Officials never took time to notify her family of her condition until after she died. What would you give for five minutes with your daughter in that situation?

    Again, from the story:

    While new details were added and other portions were corrected or clarified, the original report's conclusions and recommendations weren't revised. The first document was critical of communications failures, privacy laws and other factors, and issued suggestions on improving campus emergency procedures and notification systems, mental health regulations, and gun purchase reporting requirements.

    Unashamed, Virginia Tech spokesman Mark Owczarski is quoted as saying that "none of the new information merited changes to any of the recommendations in the original report."

    Why would they change anything? No university leaders were killed. It is frustrating that the study seems more concerned with the rules that criminals are breaking instead of focusing on the rights of potential victims and how an active killer is stopped. Rather than focusing on "gun purchase reporting requirements" they should focus on single person response. The quicker a person (usually a civilian) responds with a firearms, the quicker the killing stops. Ron Borsch calls it the "clock of death." On average someone will die every 20 seconds until armed response stops the killer. If only a teacher or fellow student were permitted to be that person, many lives could have been saved.

    Virginia Tech should allow students with concealed carry licenses to carry on university property. They might even offer classes on firearms, martial arts, or other methods of self-defense. They could be proactive and take steps to discourage killers from trying to commit crimes on their campus. Sadly university leaders continue on the same course that lead to 32 deaths – protect themselves, scoff at students, and make the killer's task as safe as possible.

    In a university where the school president and crisis management team secure their own safety and make personal phone calls while a mass murders kills their students, are still employed two years later, it is pointless to think change will come voluntarily. The Virginia legislature should immediately pass legislation granting students with right to carry licenses the authority to carry their guns on campus. Every other state should follow suit. We don't know how to detect and stop this crime before it happens, but we do know how to stop the killing quickly. Banning guns is the problem, not the solution. Changes are needed now, or the blood of those lost will be in vain, and that would be a tragedy as great as the university leaders indifference.

    Jim Irvine is the Buckeye Firearms Association Chairman.
    Note: I take the position that a public university is a state agency for the purposes of Va. Code section 15.2-915, in exactly the same way a county or city is:
    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by section 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
    ...
    The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility. ...
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  2. #2
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    This is an event that I have lost sleep over while thinking about. I guess because of it hitting so close to home with me and being in the other state run college town here in VA. Whatever the reason, I know for a fact that LEGAL guns on this campus would've turned this into a one or two person occurrence.

    For all of the antis on this that try to say more guns aren't the solution: Would you send your sons and daughter to Iraq and Afghanistan without a weapon? No, you wouldn't. Why? Because the enemy has guns. And one of the quickest ways to end their tirade is with guns and better training. For those who say we don't want our schools to be war zones so that doesn't apply. Look it up.




    Main Entry: war zone[/b]
    Function: noun[/i]
    Date: 1914
    1[/b] :[/b] a zone in which belligerents are waging war; broadly[/i] :[/b] an area marked by extreme violence



    Main Entry: 1[/suP]war[/b]
    Pronunciation: ˈwȯr
    Function: noun[/i]
    Usage: often attributive[/i]
    Etymology: Middle English werre,[/i] from Anglo-French werre, guerre,[/i] of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German werra[/i] strife; akin to Old High German werran[/i] to confuse
    Date: 12th century
    1 a [/i](1)[/i] :[/b] a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2)[/i] :[/b] a period of such armed conflict (3)[/i] :[/b] state of war b[/b] :[/b] the art or science of warfare c [/i](1)[/i] obsolete[/i] :[/b] weapons and equipment for war (2)[/i] archaic[/i] :[/b] soldiers armed and equipped for war2 a[/b] :[/b] a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b[/b] :[/b] a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease> c[/b] :[/b] variance, odds 3

    Our schools are already war zones and the ones committing these atrocious acts are creating an act of war.

    For the ones that argue we don't need guns at schools because our young adults don't know how to be responsible with them...

    Maybe you should be teaching them how to do that instead of writing them the next check for that keg of beer so they "can enjoy life. They don't need to be thinking about such horrible, stressful things as defending their lives at that age."

    Wake up! You're 100% correct. They shouldn't, but they do. It's the way things are. Maybe it's the military speaking and not me, but take control of the situation no matter what age. Force can only be stopped with force. You see how well waiting for the cops did that day, and at Ft. Hood, and at every other instance you can think of.

    What about alcohol and guns mixing? Most of the people that I know that carry are under the age of 25. As far as I know we've all carried at least a few years and I'm pretty sure we've all had parties at our homes and beendrinkingwhere guns are easily accessible to us. Nobody I know has been even tempted to use that in a fight that has broken out. Maybe because of our training in knowing the laws, having common sense, and being sensible young adults.



    I think I'm done with my rant. I guess I'll get back to work for now.



    PS does anybody know how many permit holders, law enforcement, or military there was in the building that day?


    Edited grammer and spelling.

  3. #3
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    We can rant and rave all we want about the foolishness and complete idiocy of those who would cry for more "gun free zones" in an effort to reduce the violence. We know what they know but refuse to admit. That guns in the hands of good people is a good thing. We can try all we may to convince the other side that guns are not the problem. We can try all manner of things to turn them around and make them see reality and not their dream world. But there is one thing that is gut-wrenching truth even they can see.. though some will not admit it.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun.


    For those who argue that we have to do more to remove guns from campuses, and society in general, substitute a reference to their child or children instead of the word, "you".

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    The attitude the administration had just makes me mad right down to my core. I attend George Mason and it blows my mind that Mason has just an ignorant stance towards guns on campus. Anyone in that school could have serious issues just like Cho. And what is most amazing in the sickest sense, people like Cho are still out there violating the gun free zones that law abiding carriers have to avoid or disarm to be in. The joker up at NOVA Woodbridge is another example. Thank god he wasnt competent enough to clear a jam or that teacher would not be alive today. Clearly his aim wasnt to kill all that he could, but one death from a shooter like that is still one too many.

    Tech should embrace what happened and be a pioneer in proposing legislation to allow students to carry on campus, rather than "scoff" and cheer as legislation keeps public colleges gun free. Its not that disturbing to know that some rights need to be suspended to save some lives, for instance officers making traffic stops. However, when a public univeristy blatantly stays gun free, that is just spitting on the entire legal system setup governing those institutions. Not just students/parents money goes to tuition to keep it running, but tax dollars from those all across the state.

    Just amazing
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    Would simply expanding preemption to public universities really get rid of the gun bans? After all, AFAIK, counties (which are localities and fall under preemption) can prohibit their employees from carrying, so what would keep univs. from having a similar policy for staff/faculty/students?

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    I think they can have such a policy for employees, but not for students. They have the ability to draft regulations governing student conduct, but the statute says they can't regulate firearms unless specifically empowered to do so by general law. Of course, any student would have to be of proper age and eligibility.

    Not sure I really support that idea, though; I can imagine all sorts of stupid things happening in dormitories, having done most of them myself. Add a gun to that mix and you've got real trouble. And there's no way to keep anything really secure in a dormitory or group living arrangement, even if off campus.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    user wrote:
    I think they can have such a policy for employees, but not for students. They have the ability to draft regulations governing student conduct, but the statute says they can't regulate firearms unless specifically empowered to do so by general law. Of course, any student would have to be of proper age and eligibility.

    Not sure I really support that idea, though; I can imagine all sorts of stupid things happening in dormitories, having done most of them myself. Add a gun to that mix and you've got real trouble. And there's no way to keep anything really secure in a dormitory or group living arrangement, even if off campus.
    I resent that remark. It is the same double standard that legislators apply all the time. I can carry my gun (according to the big man who signed my permit) anywhere in the Commonwealth not otherwise prohibited by law. Now, why, suddenly does my ability to do that safely leave me by my making a Right onto Spring Rd (main road onto campus at Virginia Tech)? I'm almost 24 and about to graduate Friday from Virginia Tech. I was here when the shootings happened.

    I guess I can say this freely now that I'm 2 days from graduation:

    I had my 12ga and my 22 in my dorm room locked in a cheap safe in the back of my closet my entire freshman year. Beat the hell out of registering them and having the tell the PD where/when I was going to shoot. I added a 9mm my sophomore year, a 16ga, .308, .45 etc etc as I passed through here over the past 5.5 years. I lived in 2 apartments, a dormitory, and most recently a full-blown house in a regular, honest-to-goodness neighborhood (like most young adults aspire to). I've had guns in all of those situations. Had parties and fistfights in 100% of those places, too.

    I've carried to class EVERYDAY since I got my permit. Never been called on it, never shot anyone. Shocking?

    I've never screwed up. I've never let my guns go unattended or not locked in the safe. I have a lot of friends (pretty much all of my friends who carry) who are either not in college because they failed out or never went in the first place. They are immature as hell and to be honest at least 1 of them makes me really uncomfortable carrying a gun.

    Why is it that I'm painted in a different, less responsible light, than that guy? He never went to college. He got his permit at 21 just like I did, only he wasn't mature enough to be in school...he was working on school buses ironically enough. I've carried responsibly, concealed and openly since I was 19 years old. He took a notion to buy a gun at 21 and got his permit and has been carrying ever since. Why is he ok? Why do you support his right, but you're "not sure I really support that idea" of me carrying on campus?

    Further, if I didn't trust my roommates to not mess with my guns I wouldn't be living with them. One of my roommates is the one who bought our current gun safe...and everyone in our house has the combo...

    I'd much sooner trust my roommates to defend me or my property with my (or their) guns than I would my own mother or fiancee.

    Being intoxicated and carrying concealed is already illegal...just like murder is, and brandishing, so if you're implying that any of those things would somehow be legalized by codifying legal campus carry, I'm confused.

    I guess you also supported SB776 in 2008? Figure your fellow lawyers are bound to be more responsible than us lowly 23 year old party animals...

    Please excuse me if I've misread or read too much into your remarks, but it seems to pretty clearly say you're not sure if you trust me to carry since I'm a college student.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    user wrote:
    I think they can have such a policy for employees, but not for students. They have the ability to draft regulations governing student conduct, but the statute says they can't regulate firearms unless specifically empowered to do so by general law. Of course, any student would have to be of proper age and eligibility.

    Not sure I really support that idea, though; I can imagine all sorts of stupid things happening in dormitories, having done most of them myself. Add a gun to that mix and you've got real trouble. And there's no way to keep anything really secure in a dormitory or group living arrangement, even if off campus.
    I resent that remark. It is the same double standard that legislators apply all the time. I can carry my gun (according to the big man who signed my permit) anywhere in the Commonwealth not otherwise prohibited by law. Now, why, suddenly does my ability to do that safely leave me by my making a Right onto Spring Rd (main road onto campus at Virginia Tech)? I'm almost 24 and about to graduate Friday from Virginia Tech. I was here when the shootings happened.

    I guess I can say this freely now that I'm 2 days from graduation:

    I had my 12ga and my 22 in my dorm room locked in a cheap safe in the back of my closet my entire freshman year. Beat the hell out of registering them and having the tell the PD where/when I was going to shoot. I added a 9mm my sophomore year, a 16ga, .308, .45 etc etc as I passed through here over the past 5.5 years. I lived in 2 apartments, a dormitory, and most recently a full-blown house in a regular, honest-to-goodness neighborhood (like most young adults aspire to). I've had guns in all of those situations. Had parties and fistfights in 100% of those places, too.

    I've carried to class EVERYDAY since I got my permit. Never been called on it, never shot anyone. Shocking?

    I've never screwed up. I've never let my guns go unattended or not locked in the safe. I have a lot of friends (pretty much all of my friends who carry) who are either not in college because they failed out or never went in the first place. They are immature as hell and to be honest at least 1 of them makes me really uncomfortable carrying a gun.

    Why is it that I'm painted in a different, less responsible light, than that guy? He never went to college. He got his permit at 21 just like I did, only he wasn't mature enough to be in school...he was working on school buses ironically enough. I've carried responsibly, concealed and openly since I was 19 years old. He took a notion to buy a gun at 21 and got his permit and has been carrying ever since. Why is he ok? Why do you support his right, but you're "not sure I really support that idea" of me carrying on campus?

    Further, if I didn't trust my roommates to not mess with my guns I wouldn't be living with them. One of my roommates is the one who bought our current gun safe...and everyone in our house has the combo...

    I'd much sooner trust my roommates to defend me or my property with my (or their) guns than I would my own mother or fiancee.

    Being intoxicated and carrying concealed is already illegal...just like murder is, and brandishing, so if you're implying that any of those things would somehow be legalized by codifying legal campus carry, I'm confused.

    I guess you also supported SB776 in 2008? Figure your fellow lawyers are bound to be more responsible than us lowly 23 year old party animals...

    Please excuse me if I've misread or read too much into your remarks, but it seems to pretty clearly say you're not sure if you trust me to carry since I'm a college student.
    You have a point Hokie. Where do you draw the line? y best bet would to draw it in the dorm just like we do in the real world. By actions.

    User also has a point. While I never drank or fought
    I remember one student who was half Cherokee and half Japanese. One night he got drunk pulled off all his clothes (Streaking was acceptable then) grabbed a Bowie knife and spent the next hour chasing people around the quad.

    That disturbed me because I was studying for my next Sunday School class

    Of course, College isn't like that anymore. Which reminds me, is this Edited because I said I wouldn't pick on him anymore

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    What keeps people from drinking or fighting or securing their firearms in off-campus housing? Absolutely nothing.

    I'll admit I've seen some crazy stuff when I lived on campus but I've seen equally dumb stuff off-campus where people know there are less consequences when the cops show up.

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    What I'm most concerned about in dormitories and group apartments is that the responsible gun owner will have a gun secured and put away, but be out working, or on a date, or at class or something, and one of his room-mates will have some drunken moron over who'll find the gun, defeat the lock, put cartridges in it, and go outside shooting like it's a Palestinian holiday. I sort of remember having been the drunken moron, but fortunately all I could lay my hands on was fire extinguishers. (If you can remember 1968, you weren't there.)

    I'm spouting personal opinions, you understand, not law.
    The law, in my not-so-humble opinion, is solidly on your side, and I'd be happy to zealously defend you in court if anyone caused you trouble because of your status as a gun owner. (My personal opinions have absolutely nothing to do with my representation of clients, once I've taken on the case.)
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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  11. #11
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    user wrote:
    What I'm most concerned about in dormitories and group apartments is that the responsible gun owner will have a gun secured and put away, but be out working, or on a date, or at class or something, and one of his room-mates will have some drunken moron over who'll find the gun, defeat the lock, put cartridges in it, and go outside shooting like it's a Palestinian holiday. I sort of remember having been the drunken moron, but fortunately all I could lay my hands on was fire extinguishers. (If you can remember 1968, you weren't there.)

    I'm spouting personal opinions, you understand, not law.
    The law, in my not-so-humble opinion, is solidly on your side, and I'd be happy to zealously defend you in court if anyone caused you trouble because of your status as a gun owner. (My personal opinions have absolutely nothing to do with my representation of clients, once I've taken on the case.)
    I suppose that's an issue that the students will have to deal with. Gun safes have come a long way.

    BTW, I do seem to have a slight memory lapse during the late 60's but my transcripts clearly show that I was doing Sunday School lessons and studying for exams during the entire period from 66 to 69. Those endeavors continued until 75 or is it 76

    I clearly remember 1980 though.

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    Damn, you guys are old (heh, heh). Don't worry, I, too, grew up in the 60's. Hell, I got married in '68!

    I couldn't agree more with SaltH20Hokie when he mentioned he carried to class everyday after getting his permit. After what happened at Tech, I would have done the same thing - actually before. There are times when the law be damned, you have to do what you have to do and your life and well being is far more important than any stupid or ridiculous laws or regulations.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Damn, you guys are old (heh, heh). Don't worry, I, too, grew up in the 60's. Hell, I got married in '68!

    I couldn't agree more with SaltH20Hokie when he mentioned he carried to class everyday after getting his permit. After what happened at Tech, I would have done the same thing - actually before. There are times when the law be damned, you have to do what you have to do and your life and well being is far more important than any stupid or ridiculous laws or regulations.
    Since I never break laws, I'll tell you about..."Ralph".
    There had been several attacks at school and Ralph was one of a group of people who sparred several times a week. The group was asked to teach self defense classes.

    Many of the group were Vets, and did carry even though CCW's were nearly impossible to get.

    The first question Ralph would be asked was "How can I beat up my date ?" the answer to the young ladies was "You Can't".

    They were taught basic maneuvers and Ralph concentrated on knife and gun techniques.
    The bottom line was that a lot of people on campus, carried illegally, and as far as I know, none were ever disciplined for it.
    Mysteriously, there were no more rapes at the school.

    Many years later Ralph had teenage children and taught the same things and was asked to teach some other teenagers. One kid did get drunk and nearly killed a drunk Marine Recruit in a knife fight, so he quit teaching. Shortly after, "Shall Issue" was passed so they could go that route.

    None of this controversy is new.

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    To be clear, I'm not breaking the law, just a school rule, and User, I never doubted where you stood with the law, I just meant that if the opinion of what I'd figure was one of the people MOST likely to agree with mine, doesn't actually agree with mine...I've probably got a long road ahead of me with less truly like minded people than I thought.

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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    To be clear, I'm not breaking the law, just a school rule, and User, I never doubted where you stood with the law, I just meant that if the opinion of what I'd figure was one of the people MOST likely to agree with mine, doesn't actually agree with mine...I've probably got a long road ahead of me with less truly like minded people than I thought.
    If you're talking about me, we don't disagree. I'm on your side. I do have concerns..but that doesn't translate into opposition. Just concern.

    It doesn't really matter if it's a law or school regulation in this case. In fact, getting booted from school would be far worse than paying a hundred dollar fine for a first offense class 1 misdemeanor.

    I do not like the idea of a bill that gives perks to CHP holders alone. But that's another story and I will support it when introduced. I think the benefit outweighs the harm (plus I was out voted on the matter)

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    As for breaking laws, I'm so damned squeaky clean it's pathetic. But I do contend that there are some laws which, under trying and extraneous circumstances, are not only worth breaking.. a person would be foolish not to do so. I can describe many scenarios for this, but I'm quite sure y'all know them as well as I. We are adults and we are the supreme sovereign in this nation, so we ultimately do have rights, duties, and obligations which I suggest a large segment of the population would be totally unaware exists.

    Security always comes at a price. An armed man is a free man. We've all heard these little iconic sayings, but when something like Katrina comes along, we suddenly get slammed in the face with their basic and universal truth. Too bad a bunch of Louisiana
    good 'ole boys did meet the minions of confiscation while armed to the teeth and telling them, "you ain't taking our guns today, or tomorrow, or ever".

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  17. #17
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    peter nap wrote:
    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    To be clear, I'm not breaking the law, just a school rule, and User, I never doubted where you stood with the law, I just meant that if the opinion of what I'd figure was one of the people MOST likely to agree with mine, doesn't actually agree with mine...I've probably got a long road ahead of me with less truly like minded people than I thought.
    If you're talking about me, we don't disagree. I'm on your side. I do have concerns..but that doesn't translate into opposition. Just concern.

    It doesn't really matter if it's a law or school regulation in this case. In fact, getting booted from school would be far worse than paying a hundred dollar fine for a first offense class 1 misdemeanor.

    I do not like the idea of a bill that gives perks to CHP holders alone. But that's another story and I will support it when introduced. I think the benefit outweighs the harm (plus I was out voted on the matter)
    Only pointing the comment about breaking the law toward you...seemed you were implying that's what was at hand here.

    I just don't like splintering a somewhat already splintered group further: OC vs CC, hunters (long guns only) vs defensive types (handguns), etc. No need to further introduce the "those who think carrying at 24 on a college campus is okay" vs "those who don't". Just further divides us and defeats any unified effort we have been able to present.

    Oh, and Peter Nap: I hunted the last day of rifle season in Patrick County, didn't see a thing, but it might have had something to do with the fact that I was followed around by a great uncle of mine's [pet] dog (his land borders my grandparents and the other 2 people's that I was hunting on.) I was chuckling that this isn't exactly what you seem to be enraged about, but I was darn sure mad at that dog. Sucker found me at 9:30am (so I did get a few hours of peaceful hunting in) and never left me alone. Even sat under 2 different tree stands just looking up at me and occasionally running 25ft and then returning. So I was mad at dogs while I was hunting, which is sort of like being mad at hunting dogs or dog hunters...so I will now generalize and say that all pet dogs suck

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    To be clear, I'm not breaking the law, just a school rule, and User, I never doubted where you stood with the law, I just meant that if the opinion of what I'd figure was one of the people MOST likely to agree with mine, doesn't actually agree with mine...I've probably got a long road ahead of me with less truly like minded people than I thought.
    If you're talking about me, we don't disagree. I'm on your side. I do have concerns..but that doesn't translate into opposition. Just concern.

    It doesn't really matter if it's a law or school regulation in this case. In fact, getting booted from school would be far worse than paying a hundred dollar fine for a first offense class 1 misdemeanor.

    I do not like the idea of a bill that gives perks to CHP holders alone. But that's another story and I will support it when introduced. I think the benefit outweighs the harm (plus I was out voted on the matter)
    Only pointing the comment about breaking the law toward you...seemed you were implying that's what was at hand here.

    I just don't like splintering a somewhat already splintered group further: OC vs CC, hunters (long guns only) vs defensive types (handguns), etc. No need to further introduce the "those who think carrying at 24 on a college campus is okay" vs "those who don't". Just further divides us and defeats any unified effort we have been able to present.

    ..so I will now generalize and say that all pet dogs suck
    Me too...Zeus ate my Leupold binoculars Monday. Might say he' in the dog house
    I'm going to bird hunt tomorrow.

  19. #19
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Hokie; Congrats on graduation. Now go get a job! Just kidding... I'm sure you'll do well. I'm with you on your carrying all through college. What makes a 17 year old kid in the military more mature than a 17 year old college kid? The Coast Guard does hand pistols, rifles and/or shotguns to "kids" 17 and up while expecting them to "go forth and do good". Of course they get a lot of training before being issued a firearm (and expandable baton, handcuffs, flashlight, extra magazines, etc). I would expect a "college kid" to be equally well-trained with his firearm if he goes off into the woods with his grandpa's 12 gauge.

    Don't take my use of "kid" as condescending. I use it here to illustrate a point. Who is to judge the competency and maturity of someone aged 17 to 26 (previous military recruiting targets)?

    Is carrying of a firearm (CC or OC) a RIGHT or a privilige given to those that "qualify" on paper or even at the range?

    Driving a motor vehicle is a privilige. One must show competency to operate a vehicle.

    VOTING is a RIGHT where no competency is required (unfortunately).

    You have as much right to carry on campus or anywhere else as any other citizen in our Commonwealth. Its unfortunate that CC is a privilige and OC is almost a right, but not quite...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  20. #20
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    I just got my official offer letter today, so I'm gainfully employed . Lookout NORFOLK, here I come! (Actually pumped, I'm going to be helping build the addition to my fiancee's med school.)

  21. #21
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Congrats on graduation, hokie. We got one of our own that graduated in JUne, here in the office. Good guy, working out great.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    I just got my official offer letter today, so I'm gainfully employed . Lookout NORFOLK, here I come! (Actually pumped, I'm going to be helping build the addition to my fiancee's med school.)
    Ahh...Smart man. Marrying a Doctor.
    You'll have time to hunt and fish and ....hunt.:shock:

  23. #23
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    Thanks for the congrats, and yes, my long-term goal is to be a stay at home dad.

    I think what I might do with my days at home with the kids scares the living crap out of my future in-laws (born-bred in the Bronx, guns are the devil, deer are poor little creatures, you don't actually eat fish out of the river do you, MOTORCYCLES?!?, etc.)

  24. #24
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    Thanks for the congrats, and yes, my long-term goal is to be a stay at home dad.

    I think what I might do with my days at home with the kids scares the living crap out of my future in-laws (born-bred in the Bronx, guns are the devil, deer are poor little creatures, you don't actually eat fish out of the river do you, MOTORCYCLES?!?, etc.)
    Congrats on the sheepskin. You should talk to Darthmord aboutstay-at-home dad stuff.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  25. #25
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    Thanks for the congrats, and yes, my long-term goal is to be a stay at home dad.

    I think what I might do with my days at home with the kids scares the living crap out of my future in-laws (born-bred in the Bronx, guns are the devil, deer are poor little creatures, you don't actually eat fish out of the river do you, MOTORCYCLES?!?, etc.)
    Just tell them that when you're in the South, you have to think like a Southerner. Then maybe there is hope.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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