• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

2 questions on buying a gun

hometheaterman

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
227
Location
, ,
imported post

So I have two questions about buying a gun. If I remember correctly you need to forms of ID. Will a hunting license work for the second one?

The other question I had is do you have to put your social security number on the form? Seems like I read this was optional but I wanted to double check. Is there any reason not to put it on there?
 

hunter45

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
969
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
imported post

Yes, you can use your hunting license (I used mine).

I believe the SSN is optional, but it's been so long since I've bought a gun, I don't remember for sure.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

hometheaterman wrote:
So I have two questions about buying a gun. If I remember correctly you need to forms of ID. Will a hunting license work for the second one?

The other question I had is do you have to put your social security number on the form? Seems like I read this was optional but I wanted to double check. Is there any reason not to put it on there?
Replace "social security number" with "bank account number", re-ask yourself the same question, and use the same answer you come up with. ;)

TFred
 

architect

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
392
Location
Falls Church, Virginia, USA
imported post

hometheaterman wrote:
do you have to put your social security number on the form? Is there any reason not to put it on there?
No. Many write "not disclosed, if any" in the SSN space to convey that it is an intentional omission.

One reason for not putting it on the 4473 or state form is to hinder, in a small way, pervasive Government attempts to document individual possessions, beliefs, and behavior that could be used against oneself in a foreseeable future.

Another is that one does not know who will see the forms, and what use they might make of the information within. There is sufficient power in knowledge of an individual's DOB, place of birth, SSN, and home address so as to make identify theft trivial.

edit: spelling
 

Wolf_shadow

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
1,215
Location
Accomac, Virginia, USA
imported post

hometheaterman wrote:
So I have two questions about buying a gun. If I remember correctly you need to forms of ID. Will a hunting license work for the second one?

The other question I had is do you have to put your social security number on the form? Seems like I read this was optional but I wanted to double check. Is there any reason not to put it on there?

You can refuse to provide a social security number and a government agency cannot refuse to provide you a service of benefit.


Privacy Act (P.L. 93-579) enacted effective September 27, 1975 to limit governmental use of the SSN:

Provided that no State or local government agency may withhold a benefit from a person simply because the individual refuses to furnish his or her SSN.
 

hometheaterman

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
227
Location
, ,
imported post

One other question. If you buy one from someone out of state I'm aware you have to go through a FFL dealer. However, do they get a copy of the paperwork will all your info on it or does just the dealer get that?
 

Wolf_shadow

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
1,215
Location
Accomac, Virginia, USA
imported post

Form 4473 would be filled out at the dealer in your state by you when the FFL dealer does your background check. The person you bought the firearm fromdoes not see it. The person you bought the firearm from would only have the information you gave them.
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
imported post

There are two requirements as to ID. First, that you can identify who you are and what your name is. Secondly that you can establish residency. For the second purpose, almost anything that's passed through the hands of a bureaucrat will do (including a postmarked letter that's been delivered to you at your home address). Utility bills and property tax receipts will work. So the answer is, "yes."

Next, the answer is, "no." The Virginia and U.S. privacy acts require a governmental agency to make it really clear when the SSN is required, and then they have to tell you why, what they're going to use it for, etc. The forms you fill out to buy a gun have a privacy act notice, in fact, explaining that the use of the SSN is optional. I never use it for identification. You can just leave that field blank.
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

I've been told on more than one occasion by more than one dealer that a Virginia NICS will take significantly longer if the SSN is not provided.

I have almost felt coerced into giving it up, as if not providing it would so increase the search time that it would be a great inconvenience to me.

And yet it's taken at least 24 hours for them to clear me each time anyhow. I have NEVER seen anyone get "instantly" checked. Not once. It's one heck of a misnomer, if you ask me.
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,846
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

wylde007 wrote:
I've been told on more than one occasion by more than one dealer that a Virginia NICS will take significantly longer if the SSN is not provided.

I have almost felt coerced into giving it up, as if not providing it would so increase the search time that it would be a great inconvenience to me.

And yet it's taken at least 24 hours for them to clear me each time anyhow. I have NEVER seen anyone get "instantly" checked. Not once. It's one heck of a misnomer, if you ask me.
I've never given my SSN when buying a firearm, and have always been instantly approved (within 2 minutes).
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

2a4all wrote:
I've never given my SSN when buying a firearm, and have always been instantly approved (within 2 minutes).
Like I said, I've never seen it and I have been delayed every time.

Perhaps it has just been coincidence or I have a very common name... as well as everyone else in the room at the time.:?

Meh. Glad your experience has been less inconvenient than mine.:D
 

MSC 45ACP

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,840
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

2a4all must have an uncommon name and whomever it IS common with in the state isn't a criminal.

I've never had mine approved in less than an hour in VA. Had one in Texas done instantly, but never in VA...
 

VaLiberty

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
83
Location
Virginia
imported post

hometheaterman wrote:
Will a hunting license work for the second one?
Interesting you ask - I attempted to buy a single shot 22-250 @ the Dicks on Columbia Pike in Arlington, and the manager refused to process me using any of the following combination:

Valid VA DL
Valid VA Hunting License
Utah Concealed Carry Permit

All three had matching names & addresses, but he would only accept a "Document issued by the state of VA" and insisted that the hunting license was not acceptable because it was issued by Wal Mart.

Regarding checks - I always put my SSN on it (i know, bad citizen) and my check goes through in 5 minutes or less.
 

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
imported post

From the VSP website:

Primary Identification

The primary form of identification shall consist of a valid photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or of the prospective purchaser’s home state that denotes the purchaser’s name, sex, date of birth, and address. Where the primary form of identification is a photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, the date of issuance must exceed sixty (60) days from the date of new issue or duplicate issue unless the prospective purchaser also presents a copy of his/her Department of Motor Vehicles driver's record showing that the original date of issue exceeds sixty (60) days.

A State Department Driver’s License is an acceptable primary form of identification: a photo-identification issued by a [Federal] governmental agency which indicates the individual’s name, address, race, sex, and date of birth.

Social security cards and birth certificates ARE NOT acceptable forms of identification.

Secondary Identification

The secondary form of identification, for Virginia residents and residents of other states, must show an address identical to that shown on the primary form of identification. Some acceptable forms of secondary ID are:

  • a current lease
  • evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax
  • a current utility or telephone bill
  • a current voter registration card
  • a current bank check
  • a current passport
  • a current automobile registration
  • a current hunting or fishing license
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
imported post

VaLiberty wrote:
hometheaterman wrote: 
Will a hunting license work for the second one?
Interesting you ask - I attempted to buy a single shot 22-250 @ the Dicks on Columbia Pike in Arlington, and the manager refused to process me using any of the following combination:

Valid VA DL
Valid VA Hunting License
Utah Concealed Carry Permit

All three had matching names & addresses, but he would only accept a "Document issued by the state of VA" and insisted that the hunting license was not acceptable because it was issued by Wal Mart.

Regarding checks - I always put my SSN on it (i know, bad citizen) and my check goes through in 5 minutes or less.

What nonsense! When WalMart sells you a hunting license, that's not WalMart issuing the license; they're acting as the agent for the Commonwealth; it's the Commonwealth of Virginia that issues hunting licenses. That guy clearly has had no training. Anytime someone gives you crap like that, ask them to call their local BATFE agent - dealers are issued contact information just for them so they can do that when they've got questions, so don't let them tell you they can't. If you've got the cash, and you're eligible, tell them so and offer to pay the money. Unreasonable refusal to sell the goods as advertised is a violation of the Virginia Consumer Protection Act, section 59.1-200 paragraph 8, I think. That's good for five hundred dollars, minimum, plus attorneys' fees and costs, even if you didn't lose any money over it. Failure to receive the merchandise is "damages", and tender of payment IS payment in Virginia (if you've offered the cash, and they refuse, they've given you a gift, but they can't say they didn't get paid).
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

ProShooter wrote:
From the VSP website:

Primary Identification

The primary form of identification shall consist of a valid photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or of the prospective purchaser’s home state that denotes the purchaser’s name, sex, date of birth, and address. Where the primary form of identification is a photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, the date of issuance must exceed sixty (60) days from the date of new issue or duplicate issue unless the prospective purchaser also presents a copy of his/her Department of Motor Vehicles driver's record showing that the original date of issue exceeds sixty (60) days.

A State Department Driver’s License is an acceptable primary form of identification: a photo-identification issued by a [Federal] governmental agency which indicates the individual’s name, address, race, sex, and date of birth.

Social security cards and birth certificates ARE NOT acceptable forms of identification.

Secondary Identification

The secondary form of identification, for Virginia residents and residents of other states, must show an address identical to that shown on the primary form of identification. Some acceptable forms of secondary ID are:
  • a current lease
  • evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax
  • a current utility or telephone bill
  • a current voter registration card
  • a current bank check
  • a current passport
  • a current automobile registration
  • a current hunting or fishing license
The passport option always amazes me, since it has no residency information on it whatsoever (other than what you pencil in yourself!)

TFred
 

hometheaterman

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
227
Location
, ,
imported post

Has the part you have to fill out about your place of birth always been on the form? I just didn't remember that.
 

simmonsjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
1,661
Location
Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
imported post

What amazes me is the recently paid utility bill, lease, or bank check. These are all private documents completely unregulated by the state. Yet the guy thinks a hunting license isn't acceptable?? Even if it was issued by wal-mart(which I understand it isn') doesn't make it any less than the others.
 
Top