OK to LUCC on one's person while walking around in public?

tonyoverthere · Dec 15, 2009

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Hey guys, great website with a huge wealth of info that has really helped me navigate these crazy CA laws. I have read all the penal codes and am confident that I am compliant but I just have a couple questions and want to verify that I am correct in my methods. Let me lay it out for you and please tell me if am I wrong about anything here.

I plan to carry my handgun in my car at all times. I am not required to be going to, or from, any specific place. So basically, I can always have it in the car. I keep it unloaded and fully-enclosed in a soft pistol case. The zipper on the case is locked to a d-ring with a key lock. I know its probablya gray areato leave the key in the lock so lets not worry about that for now. The gun is unloaded but the magazine is full and is kept inside the same pistol case, right next to the gun. The mag isnot inserted into the mag well, its just loose and sitting by the gun.I can then put the case anywhere in my car: under the seat, on my lap, behind the seat, etc. Sound good?

Now....here is where I couldnt find any info yet. Am I alright to put the handgun in a backpack, or something similar, and walk around with it out in public? What if the wife wants to throw hers in her purse as she shops? The gun is technically concealed and I do not have a CCW, but it is still unloaded and locked securely in a fully-enclosed soft case with the full mag sitting next to it (not in the mag well). Samelaws apply here as if when transporting?

Thanks!!

mjones · Dec 15, 2009

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You have correctly identified the 'gray area' of LUCC.

The longer discussion of this topic at the CalGuns forum seems to be a 50/50 split with regard to this conundrum.

I don't personally have a decision on where I stand for this yet...

mjones · Dec 15, 2009

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Oh, and welcome to OCDO!

Gundude · Dec 15, 2009

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tonyoverthere wrote:

Hey guys, great website with a huge wealth of info that has really helped me navigate these crazy CA laws. I have read all the penal codes and am confident that I am compliant but I just have a couple questions and want to verify that I am correct in my methods. Let me lay it out for you and please tell me if am I wrong about anything here.

I plan to carry my handgun in my car at all times. I am not required to be going to, or from, any specific place. So basically, I can always have it in the car. I keep it unloaded and fully-enclosed in a soft pistol case. The zipper on the case is locked to a d-ring with a key lock. I know its probablya gray areato leave the key in the lock so lets not worry about that for now. The gun is unloaded but the magazine is full and is kept inside the same pistol case, right next to the gun. The mag isnot inserted into the mag well, its just loose and sitting by the gun.I can then put the case anywhere in my car: under the seat, on my lap, behind the seat, etc. Sound good?

Now....here is where I couldnt find any info yet. Am I alright to put the handgun in a backpack, or something similar, and walk around with it out in public? What if the wife wants to throw hers in her purse as she shops? The gun is technically concealed and I do not have a CCW, but it is still unloaded and locked securely in a fully-enclosed soft case with the full mag sitting next to it (not in the mag well). Samelaws apply here as if when transporting?

Thanks!!

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

mjones · Dec 15, 2009

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12026.1 Covers Concealed Vehicle Carry exemptions

12026.2 Covers Other Concealed exemptions

Sadly, those sections aren't as clear cut as I would like them to be.

Streetbikerr6 · Dec 15, 2009

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Gundude wrote:

tonyoverthere wrote:

Hey guys, great website with a huge wealth of info that has really helped me navigate these crazy CA laws. I have read all the penal codes and am confident that I am compliant but I just have a couple questions and want to verify that I am correct in my methods. Let me lay it out for you and please tell me if am I wrong about anything here.

I plan to carry my handgun in my car at all times. I am not required to be going to, or from, any specific place. So basically, I can always have it in the car. I keep it unloaded and fully-enclosed in a soft pistol case. The zipper on the case is locked to a d-ring with a key lock. I know its probablya gray areato leave the key in the lock so lets not worry about that for now. The gun is unloaded but the magazine is full and is kept inside the same pistol case, right next to the gun. The mag isnot inserted into the mag well, its just loose and sitting by the gun.I can then put the case anywhere in my car: under the seat, on my lap, behind the seat, etc. Sound good?

Now....here is where I couldnt find any info yet. Am I alright to put the handgun in a backpack, or something similar, and walk around with it out in public? What if the wife wants to throw hers in her purse as she shops? The gun is technically concealed and I do not have a CCW, but it is still unloaded and locked securely in a fully-enclosed soft case with the full mag sitting next to it (not in the mag well). Samelaws apply here as if when transporting?

Thanks!!

Click to expand...

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

So does that mean while not "carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle"... say such as walking down the street from your house... is not legal??

edit: or how about a motorcycle? or a bicycle?

mjones · Dec 15, 2009

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So, for non vehicle...

12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(4) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 directly between any of the places mentioned in Section 12026.

12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'
s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on
private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal
resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.

This chain shows that LUCC is ok if directly traveling directly between the bolded places above.

That's my cursory take on the issue, but I know there are arguments otherwise.

mjones · Dec 15, 2009

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Streetbikerr6 wrote:

So does that mean while not "carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle"... say such as walking down the street from your house... is not legal??

edit: or how about a motorcycle? or a bicycle?

12026.1 Covers Concealed Vehicle Carry exemptions

12026.2 Covers 'Other' Concealed exemptions

I think a motorcycle would be a "motor vehicle" per 12026.1(a)(1) The sticky part here is that it proscribes "within" ... So does that mean a permanently mounted saddle bagwould be ok? but not a backpack? or maybe only under the seat?

tonyoverthere · Dec 15, 2009

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Gundude wrote:

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

I take this to mean that it doesnt matter where I am going or coming from, as long as its in the car. But I can only carry it on my person when walking to or from the vehicle for a lawful purpose....and lawful purpose probably doesnt mean while grocery shopping or walking around downtown? What u think?

Gundude · Dec 15, 2009

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tonyoverthere wrote:

Gundude wrote:

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

Click to expand...

I take this to mean that it doesnt matter where I am going or coming from, as long as its in the car. But I can only carry it on my person when walking to or from the vehicle for a lawful purpose....and lawful purpose probably doesnt mean while grocery shopping or walking around downtown? What u think?

Maybe grocery shopping is not a lawful purpose if your stealing them. I always grocery shop lawfully.

tonyoverthere · Dec 15, 2009

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Gundude wrote:

tonyoverthere wrote:

Gundude wrote:

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

Click to expand...

I take this to mean that it doesnt matter where I am going or coming from, as long as its in the car. But I can only carry it on my person when walking to or from the vehicle for a lawful purpose....and lawful purpose probably doesnt mean while grocery shopping or walking around downtown? What u think?

Click to expand...

Maybe grocery shopping is not a lawful purpose if your stealing them. I always grocery shop lawfully.

Hahaha thats what I was originally thinking but I figured it couldnt have been that simple. I guess Ideducted that"lawful purpose" meant walking to or from a shooting range, campsite, private property, residence, etc.

So as long as Im not out breaking the law or intending to do so, I believe it can be LUCC on my person,in a backpack, or purse, etc. Thanks!

mjones · Dec 15, 2009

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Ahhh, I knew someone would jog my memory...lawful purposes to/from car

If your mode of transportation is a motor vehicle LUCC is fine to/from that vehicle for any lawful purpose.

So, Home to Car to Grocery Store to Car to Home = OK

But,

Home to Car to Grocery Store to Dry Cleaner to Car to Home = BAD (didn't go to the car between stores)

So, if I remember the CalGuns discussion correctly, this is why "the right people" said not to LUCC at a shopping mall - because you could/would have multiple stops between trips to the car.

Rusty · Dec 15, 2009

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This is pure insanity.

mjones · Dec 15, 2009

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Rusty wrote:

This is pure insanity.

Definition of CA Gun Laws? :cuss:

ACMeesot · Dec 15, 2009

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I wonder if it'd be easier if we all just got up and moved to NV or AZ. :/

Streetbikerr6 · Dec 15, 2009

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mjones wrote:

Ahhh, I knew someone would jog my memory...lawful purposes to/from car

If your mode of transportation is a motor vehicle LUCC is fine to/from that vehicle for any lawful purpose.

So, Home to Car to Grocery Store to Car to Home = OK

But,

Home to Car to Grocery Store to Dry Cleaner to Car to Home = BAD (didn't go to the car between stores)

So, if I remember the CalGuns discussion correctly, this is why "the right people" said not to LUCC at a shopping mall - because you could/would have multiple stops between trips to the car.

That makes no sense. I would like the person to come to that deduction to explain. Any lawful purpose... I have a purpose to shop at a shopping mall. Why would this not be supported by that definition? I fail to see the argument. I could see if the law said..

"directly to or from any motor vehicle for any (ONE) lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container."

Or is the argumentbecause the word is not "purposes"?

J.A.G. · Dec 15, 2009

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No, lawful purpose means going about your business without committing any crimes. Basically, that law says, as long as the firearm is in a locked container, you can take it wherever you want. To me, its that simple.

mjones, as for 12026, i never read that before. I didn't realize that I could have been carrying concealed from my home to my place of work. I was locking it up, putting it in the car, taking it to work, then taking it out and holstering at work.

Or am I reading that wrong?

Also, Its slightly confusing wording. Does the place of business also have to be owned by the same person? or is it just your place of work?

mjones · Dec 15, 2009

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J.A.G. wrote:

mjones, as for 12026, i never read that before. I didn't realize that I could have been carrying concealed from my home to my place of work. I was locking it up, putting it in the car, taking it to work, then taking it out and holstering at work.

Or am I reading that wrong?

Yuppers, you are reading it wrong. Since the original discussion was in the context of locked container carry, I ommitted the following:

12026.2 (b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d)...

12026.2 (d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.

tonyoverthere · Dec 15, 2009

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J.A.G. wrote:

No, lawful purpose means going about your business without committing any crimes. Basically, that law says, as long as the firearm is in a locked container, you can take it wherever you want. To me, its that simple.

Thats the way I am reading it now. One can basically drive anywhere or walk anywhere as long as its lawful, under the circumstances I have been referring to.

Gundude · Dec 15, 2009

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Lawful purpose list:

Feel free to add your purpose.

1: Trip to gun store for ammo

2: trip to Love Tools store

3: trip to Hot Time Motel to meet wife's sister

4: trip to Hot Time Motel to meet husband's brother

5:

OK to LUCC on one's person while walking around in public?

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