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OK to LUCC on one's person while walking around in public?

mjones

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Jul 15, 2008
Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
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Streetbikerr6 wrote:
mjones wrote:
But,

Home to Car to Grocery Store to Dry Cleaner to Car to Home = BAD (didn't go to the car between stores)

So, if I remember the CalGuns discussion correctly, this is why "the right people" said not to LUCC at a shopping mall - because you could/would have multiple stops between trips to the car.

That makes no sense. I would like the person to come to that deduction to explain. Any lawful purpose... I have a purpose to shop at a shopping mall. Why would this not be supported by that definition? I fail to see the argument. I could see if the law said..

"directly to or from any motor vehicle for any (ONE) lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container."

Or is the argumentbecause the word is not "purposes"?

Ican't say that I really have a clear understanding of the really fine points of LUCC either pro or con. I'm just doing my best to help

I personally don't do it as I am exempt according to 12027(j)

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(j) The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to
carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3
(commencing with Section 12050).
 

Streetbikerr6

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Feb 2, 2009
Messages
389
Location
Folsom, , USA
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J.A.G. wrote:
No, lawful purpose means going about your business without committing any crimes. Basically, that law says, as long as the firearm is in a locked container, you can take it wherever you want. To me, its that simple.

mjones, as for 12026, i never read that before. I didn't realize that I could have been carrying concealed from my home to my place of work. I was locking it up, putting it in the car, taking it to work, then taking it out and holstering at work.

Or am I reading that wrong?

Also, Its slightly confusing wording. Does the place of business also have to be owned by the same person? or is it just your place of work?
PullNshoot can we get you or your brother's help on this one? Thanks
 

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,585
Location
Stanislaus County, California, USA
imported post

ACMeesot wrote:
I wonder if it'd be easier if we all just got up and moved to NV or AZ. :/
Yes, it would... but where's the fun in that?

Seriously though, beyond the fight we're putting on here, there's an even larger war going on. Liberty is on the line, and there are people who are fighting another good fight on yet another battlefield.

While I have a great deal of admiration and respect for those who refuse to leave their home territory, I must express equal respect and admiration for those willing to take the fight on the road.

If you're like me, and have little attachment to this geographic location, then I encourage you to consider joining another battle.

www.freestateproject.org
 

Streetbikerr6

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Folsom, , USA
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Ok lawful manner means that if I carry my gun in a backpack to my college where guns are not allowed, that is not lawful? Or does that particular piece of law exempt locked in a container?
 

Rusty

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
121
Location
San Jose, California, USA
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Lawful purpose list:

Feel free to add your purpose.

1: Trip to gun store for ammo

2: trip to Love Tools store

3: trip to Hot Time Motel to meet wife's sister

4: trip to Hot Time Motel to meet husband's brother

5: trip to Hot Time Motel to meet wife's brother?


But in all seriousness now.

I don't see an exception for carrying LUCC when you are not going to a vehicle.

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

I see exemptions in 12026.1 for how to carry in a vehicle, and transporting to and from a vehicle, but nothing about just walking around that way.

So my read of this (in relation to the original post) is

You are guilty of CCW if you carry concealed upon the person [PC 12025(a)(2)] unless:

1. The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

or

2. The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.

[PC 12026.1(a)(1-2)]

So if you were walking down the street with a firearm, unloaded, in a locked container, 12026.1(a)(1) does not apply, as the firearm is not in a vehicle. and 12026.1(a)(2) does not apply because you must be going to or from a motor vehicle.

therefore, if you meet neither exception, then you are CCW.
 

mjones

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Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
imported post

Rusty wrote:
So my read of this (in relation to the original post) is

You are guilty of CCW if you carry concealed upon the person [PC 12025(a)(2)] unless:

1. The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

or

2. The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.

[PC 12026.1(a)(1-2)]

So if you were walking down the street with a firearm, unloaded, in a locked container, 12026.1(a)(1) does not apply, as the firearm is not in a vehicle. and 12026.1(a)(2) does not apply because you must be going to or from a motor vehicle.

therefore, if you meet neither exception, then you are CCW.
Don't forget that there are also exemptions to 12025 in 12026.2 (lots of possibilities for normal everyday folks), 12027 & 12027.1 (both potentially more rare)
 

Streetbikerr6

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Messages
389
Location
Folsom, , USA
imported post

mjones wrote:
Rusty wrote:
So my read of this (in relation to the original post) is

You are guilty of CCW if you carry concealed upon the person [PC 12025(a)(2)] unless:

1. The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

or

2. The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.

[PC 12026.1(a)(1-2)]

So if you were walking down the street with a firearm, unloaded, in a locked container, 12026.1(a)(1) does not apply, as the firearm is not in a vehicle. and 12026.1(a)(2) does not apply because you must be going to or from a motor vehicle.

therefore, if you meet neither exception, then you are CCW.
Don't forget that there are also exemptions to 12025 in 12026.2 (lots of possibilities for normal everyday folks), 12027 & 12027.1 (both potentially more rare)


What are these exemptions my friend?
 

mjones

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Joined
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Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
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Streetbikerr6 wrote:
mjones wrote:
Don't forget that there are also exemptions to 12025 in 12026.2 (lots of possibilities for normal everyday folks), 12027 & 12027.1 (both potentially more rare)


What are these exemptions my friend?

Wall of Penal Code incoming....

from http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=92315629703+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve



12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(1) The possession of a firearm by an authorized participant in a
motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment
event when the participant lawfully uses the firearm as part of that
production or event or while going directly to, or coming directly
from, that production or event.
(2) The possession of a firearm in a locked container by a member
of any club or organization, organized for the purpose of lawfully
collecting and lawfully displaying pistols, revolvers, or other
firearms, while the member is at meetings of the clubs or
organizations or while going directly to, and coming directly from,
those meetings.
(3) The transportation of a firearm by a participant when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a recognized safety or hunter
safety class, or a recognized sporting event involving that firearm.
(4) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 directly between any of the places mentioned in Section 12026.
(5) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a fixed place of business or
private residential property for the purpose of the lawful repair or
the lawful transfer, sale, or loan of that firearm.
(6) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 when going directly from the place where that person lawfully
received that firearm to that person's place of residence or place of
business or to private property owned or lawfully possessed by that
person.
(7) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show, swap meet, or
similar event to which the public is invited, for the purpose of
displaying that firearm in a lawful manner.
(8) The transportation of a firearm by an authorized employee or
agent of a supplier of firearms when going directly to, or coming
directly from, a motion picture, television, or video production or
entertainment event for the purpose of providing that firearm to an
authorized participant to lawfully use as a part of that production
or event.
(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a
regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing
shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.
(10) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a place designated by a person
authorized to issue licenses pursuant to Section 12050 when done at
the request of the issuing agency so that the issuing agency can
determine whether or not a license should be issued to that person to
carry that firearm.
(11) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a lawful camping activity for
the purpose of having that firearm available for lawful personal
protection while at the lawful campsite. This paragraph shall not be
construed to override the statutory authority granted to the
Department of Parks and Recreation or any other state or local
governmental agencies to promulgate rules and regulations governing
the administration of parks and campgrounds.
(12) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with subdivision (c) or (i) of Section 12078 as it pertains to
that firearm.
(13) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
utilize subdivision (l) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that
firearm.
(14) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show or event, as defined
in Section 478.100 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations,
for the purpose of lawfully transferring, selling, or loaning that
firearm in accordance with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.
(15) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
utilize paragraph (6) of subdivision (a) of Section 12078 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(16) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the
firearm in order to comply with Article 1 (commencing with Section
2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code as it pertains to
that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law
enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law
enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the
law enforcement agency.
(17) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with paragraph (2) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(18) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the
firearm and is transporting it to a law enforcement agency for
disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the
law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to
the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.
(19) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with paragraph (3) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(20) The transportation of a firearm by a person for the purpose
of obtaining an identification number or mark assigned for that
firearm from the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12092.
(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.
(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this
chapter.
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.


12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(a) (1) (A) Any peace officer, listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2,
or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, whether active or honorably
retired, other duly appointed peace officers, honorably retired peace
officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, other honorably
retired peace officers who during the course and scope of their
employment as peace officers were authorized to, and did, carry
firearms, full-time paid peace officers of other states and the
federal government who are carrying out official duties while in
California, or any person summoned by any of these officers to assist
in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is
actually engaged in assisting that officer. Any peace officer
described in this paragraph who has been honorably retired shall be
issued an identification certificate by the law enforcement agency
from which the officer has retired. The issuing agency may charge a
fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the agency
in issuing certificates pursuant to this subdivision. As used in
this section and Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" includes
all peace officers who have qualified for, and have accepted, a
service or disability retirement. For purposes of this section and
Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" does not include an
officer who has agreed to a service retirement in lieu of
termination.
(B) Any officer, except an officer listed in Section 830.1 or
830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of
Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have an
endorsement on the identification certificate stating that the
issuing agency approves the officer's carrying of a concealed
firearm.
(C) No endorsement or renewal endorsement issued pursuant to
paragraph (2) shall be effective unless it is in the format set forth
in subparagraph (D), except that any peace officer listed in
subdivision (f) of Section 830.2 or in subdivision (c) of Section
830.5, who is retired between January 2, 1981, and on or before
December 31, 1988, and who is authorized to carry a concealed firearm
pursuant to this section, shall not be required to have an
endorsement in the format set forth in subparagraph (D) until the
time of the issuance, on or after January 1, 1989, of a renewal
endorsement pursuant to paragraph (2).
(D) A certificate issued pursuant to this paragraph for persons
who are not listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of
Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 or for persons
retiring after January 1, 1981, shall be in the following format: it
shall be on a 2X3 inch card, bear the photograph of the retiree, the
retiree's name, date of birth, the date that the retiree retired,
name and address of the agency from which the retiree retired, have
stamped on it the endorsement "CCW Approved" and the date the
endorsement is to be renewed. A certificate issued pursuant to this
paragraph shall not be valid as identification for the sale,
purchase, or transfer of a firearm.
(E) For purposes of this section and Section 12031, "CCW" means
"carry concealed weapons."
(2) A retired peace officer, except an officer listed in Section
830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c)
of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall
petition the issuing agency for the renewal of his or her privilege
to carry a concealed firearm every five years. An honorably retired
peace officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of
Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior
to January 1, 1981, shall not be required to obtain an endorsement
from the issuing agency to carry a concealed firearm. The agency from
which a peace officer is honorably retired may, upon initial
retirement of that peace officer, or at any time subsequent thereto,
deny or revoke for good cause the retired officer's privilege to
carry a concealed firearm. A peace officer who is listed in Section
830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c)
of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have
his or her privilege to carry a concealed firearm denied or revoked
by having the agency from which the officer retired stamp on the
officer's identification certificate "No CCW privilege."
(3) An honorably retired peace officer who is listed in
subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 and authorized to carry concealed
firearms by this subdivision shall meet the training requirements of
Section 832 and shall qualify with the firearm at least annually. The
individual retired peace officer shall be responsible for
maintaining his or her eligibility to carry a concealed firearm. The
Department of Justice shall provide subsequent arrest notification
pursuant to Section 11105.2 regarding honorably retired peace
officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 to the agency
from which the officer has retired.
(b) The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols,
revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the
person as merchandise by a person who is engaged in the business of
manufacturing, importing, wholesaling, repairing, or dealing in
firearms and who is licensed to engage in that business or the
authorized representative or authorized agent of that person while
engaged in the lawful course of the business.
(c) Members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, or Marine
Corps of the United States, or the National Guard, when on duty, or
organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive
those weapons from the United States or this state.
(d) The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms
capable of being concealed upon the person by duly authorized
military or civil organizations while parading, or the members
thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their
respective organizations.
(e) Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other
financial institutions while actually employed in and about the
shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure,
bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.
(f) Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose
of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges,
whether public or private, while the members are using pistols,
revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the
person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms
unloaded when going to and from the ranges.
(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.
(h) Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a
licensed common carrier or an authorized agent or employee thereof
when transported in conformance with applicable federal law.
(i) Upon approval of the sheriff of the county in which they
reside, honorably retired federal officers or agents of federal law
enforcement agencies, including, but not limited to, the Federal
Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, the United States
Customs Service, the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and
Firearms, the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, the Drug Enforcement
Administration, the United States Border Patrol, and officers or
agents of the Internal Revenue Service who were authorized to carry
weapons while on duty, who were assigned to duty within the state for
a period of not less than one year, or who retired from active
service in the state.
Retired federal officers or agents shall provide the sheriff with
certification from the agency from which they retired certifying
their service in the state, the nature of their retirement, and
indicating the agency's concurrence that the retired federal officer
or agent should be accorded the privilege of carrying a concealed
firearm.
Upon that approval, the sheriff shall issue a permit to the
retired federal officer or agent indicating that he or she may carry
a concealed firearm in accordance with this subdivision. The permit
shall be valid for a period not exceeding five years, shall be
carried by the retiree while carrying a concealed firearm, and may be
revoked for good cause.
The sheriff of the county in which the retired federal officer or
agent resides may require recertification prior to a permit renewal,
and may suspend the privilege for cause. The sheriff may charge a fee
necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the county.
(j) The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to
carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3
(commencing with Section 12050).



12027.1. (a) (1) (A) (i) Any peace officer employed by an agency
and listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2 or subdivision (c) of Section
830.5 who retired after January 1, 1981, shall have an endorsement on
the identification certificate stating that the issuing agency
approves the officer's carrying of a concealed and loaded firearm.
(ii) Any peace officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2 or
subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1,
1981, is authorized to carry a concealed and loaded firearm if the
agency issued the officer an identification certificate and the
certificate has not been stamped as specified in paragraph (2) of
subdivision (a) of Section 12027.
(iii) Peace officers not listed in clause (i) or (ii) who were
authorized to, and did, carry firearms during the course and scope of
their employment as peace officers, shall have an endorsement on the
identification certificate stating that the issuing agency approves
the officer's carrying of a concealed and loaded firearm.
(B) An identification certificate authorizing the officer to carry
a concealed and loaded firearm or an endorsement on the certificate
may be revoked or denied by the issuing agency only upon a showing of
good cause. Good cause shall be determined at a hearing, as
specified in subdivision (d).
(2) A retired peace officer may have his or her privilege to carry
a concealed and loaded firearm revoked or denied by violating any
departmental rule, or state or federal law that, if violated by an
officer on active duty, would result in that officer's arrest,
suspension, or removal from the agency.
(b) (1) An identification certificate authorizing the officer to
carry a concealed and loaded firearm or an endorsement may be revoked
or denied by the issuing agency only upon a showing of good cause.
Good cause shall be determined at a hearing, as specified in
subdivision (d).
(2) An identification certificate authorizing the officer to carry
a concealed and loaded firearm or an endorsement may be revoked only
after a hearing, as specified in subdivision (d). Any retired peace
officer whose identification certificate authorizing the officer to
carry a concealed and loaded firearm or an endorsement is to be
revoked shall have 15 days to respond to the notice of the hearing.
Notice of the hearing shall be served either personally on the
retiree or sent by first-class mail, postage prepaid, return receipt
requested to the retiree's last known place of residence. Upon the
date the agency receives the signed registered receipt or upon the
date the notice is served personally on the retiree, the retiree
shall have 15 days to respond to the notification. A retired peace
officer who fails to respond to the notice of the hearing shall
forfeit his or her right to respond.
(3) An identification certificate authorizing the officer to carry
a concealed and loaded firearm or an endorsement may be denied prior
to a hearing. If a hearing is not conducted prior to the denial of
an endorsement, a retired peace officer, within 15 days of the
denial, shall have the right to request a hearing. A retired peace
officer who fails to request a hearing pursuant to this paragraph
shall forfeit his or her right to the hearing.
(c) A retired peace officer, when notified of the revocation of
his or her privilege to carry a concealed and loaded firearm, after
the hearing, or upon forfeiting his or her right to a hearing, shall
immediately surrender to the issuing agency his or her identification
certificate. The issuing agency shall reissue a new identification
certificate without an endorsement. However, if the peace officer
retired prior to January 1, 1981, and was at the time of his or her
retirement a peace officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2 or
subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, the issuing agency shall stamp on
the identification certificate "No CCW privilege."
(d) Any hearing conducted under this section shall be held before
a three-member hearing board. One member of the board shall be
selected by the agency and one member shall be selected by the
retired peace officer or his or her employee organization. The third
member shall be selected jointly by the agency and the retired peace
officer or his or her employee organization.
Any decision by the board shall be binding on the agency and the
retired peace officer.
(e) No peace officer who is retired after January 1, 1989, because
of a psychological disability shall be issued an endorsement to
carry a concealed and loaded firearm pursuant to this section.
 

Streetbikerr6

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Messages
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Location
Folsom, , USA
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ok wtf. why do they needs to throw in those exemptions??? Aren't they all covered under "any lawful purpose"??

Or do those exemptions mean you do not need to be traveling from or to a vehicle?

Because in my mind, I could go to k-mart and then walk down to taco bell and then come back to my car and that would be a lawfule purpose... getting some clothes and then buying some food... lawful purpose.

Can any one clarify?
 

4armed Architect

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Jun 14, 2008
Messages
149
Location
L.A. County, California, USA
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Let me get this straight. My right to transport an unloaded, concealable firearm, locked in a secure container, is predicated upon the use of a vehicle? Sounds discriminatory to me. Why do I have to own a vehicle to transport that way? What if I walk to work?

I suppose one could weakly argue that I could borrow a vehicle or have a friend drive. I would argue that that would put my life in greater danger than walking.

As with most CA firearms laws, I look forward to the day when they are struck down as unconstitutional. I should live so long.
 

Streetbikerr6

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Messages
389
Location
Folsom, , USA
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4armed Architect wrote:
Let me get this straight. My right to transport an unloaded, concealable firearm, locked in a secure container, is predicated upon the use of a vehicle? Sounds discriminatory to me. Why do I have to own a vehicle to transport that way? What if I walk to work?

I suppose one could weakly argue that I could borrow a vehicle or have a friend drive. I would argue that that would put my life in greater danger than walking.

As with most CA firearms laws, I look forward to the day when they are struck down as unconstitutional. I should live so long.
Yes it would seem that way. It looks like the only way your allowed to transport that gun with out a car is if you are transporting it to sell it or find the serial number (just 2 of the stupid ass exemptions above)

Pretty B.S. if you ask me. So if I take a gun locked in a container and walk across the street to show my neighbor, I am breaking the law. Is this America?? I feel like I am on a @#$%ing island with dumbass liberal hippies running the colony.

What I find most hilarious is the exemption...

"(11) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a lawful camping activity for the purpose of having that firearm available for lawful personal protection while at the lawful campsite"

As if a campsite has suddenly observed an increase in violent criminal attacks and rapes?? Or as if bears are the only thing an individual has the right to protect him or herself against in America??

Luckily you can open carry it to your neighbors house, yet if that area is within 1000 ft of a school zone.. you have to get in your car and drive 10 feet away onto his private property.. ludicrous
 

Rusty

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Dec 7, 2009
Messages
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San Jose, California, USA
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Because in my mind, I could go to k-mart and then walk down to taco bell and then come back to my car and that would be a lawfule purpose... getting some clothes and then buying some food... lawful purpose.

No. That would seem to be illegal. Now, if you drove to K-Mart, went shopping, then went back to your car, then went to taco bell, then came right back to your car. That would seem to be legal.

*remember, this is for LUCC, not plain UOC. If you were open carrying, then you could do all that, without the car (so long as you are not in a GFSZ etc...)
 

Streetbikerr6

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Messages
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Location
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Rusty wrote:
Because in my mind, I could go to k-mart and then walk down to taco bell and then come back to my car and that would be a lawfule purpose... getting some clothes and then buying some food... lawful purpose.

No. That would seem to be illegal. Now, if you drove to K-Mart, went shopping, then went back to your car, then went to taco bell, then came right back to your car. That would seem to be legal.

*remember, this is for LUCC, not plain UOC. If you were open carrying, then you could do all that, without the car (so long as you are not in a GFSZ etc...)

haha Gay Fukcing School Zone?
 

Rusty

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Let me get this straight. My right to transport an unloaded, concealable firearm, locked in a secure container, is predicated upon the use of a vehicle? Sounds discriminatory to me. Why do I have to own a vehicle to transport that way? What if I walk to work?

This is stupid to me as well. I live right next to a school, so according to the law, unless I have a car, it is basically illegal for me to take my firearm anywhere.
 

Decoligny

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Gundude wrote:
tonyoverthere wrote:
Gundude wrote:
12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

I take this to mean that it doesnt matter where I am going or coming from, as long as its in the car. But I can only carry it on my person when walking to or from the vehicle for a lawful purpose....and lawful purpose probably doesnt mean while grocery shopping or walking around downtown? What u think?
Maybe grocery shopping is not a lawful purpose if your stealing them. I always grocery shop lawfully.

(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.

What this is saying is that as long as you are carrying your firearm DIRECTLY to your car, or carrying you firearm DIRECTLY from your car, then you are good to go.

Walking around in a grocery store is neither going to or coming from your car, and it sure as hell is definitely DIRECTLY to or from your car.

What this means is that it is lawful for you to leave your house, the range, or anywhere else you may happen to be when you lock up your gunand walk straight to your car with the gun locked in the case. It also means that it is legal to walk straight from you car to the range, your home, or anywhere else where you will remove the gun from the case.

Walking around town doesn't fall into DIRECTLY. Walking around shopping doesn't fall into DIRECTLY. Sitting in a movie theater doesn't fall into DIRECTLY.
 

inbox485

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tonyoverthere wrote:
I know its probably a gray area to leave the key in the lock so lets not worry about that for now.

There's nothing grey about it. With the pins engaged by the key, it isn't locked. You should consider a combination luggage lock. Leave the bottom dial one digit off so that you grab the lock by that digit and pull as you turn. Just as fast as the key while being technically compliant. You seem to understand and accept the risks involved, so I'll leave it at that.

The gun is unloaded but the magazine is full and is kept inside the same pistol case, right next to the gun. The mag is not inserted into the mag well, its just loose and sitting by the gun. I can then put the case anywhere in my car: under the seat, on my lap, behind the seat, etc. Sound good?

Beautiful

Now....here is where I couldnt find any info yet. Am I alright to put the handgun in a backpack, or something similar, and walk around with it out in public? What if the wife wants to throw hers in her purse as she shops? The gun is technically concealed and I do not have a CCW, but it is still unloaded and locked securely in a fully-enclosed soft case with the full mag sitting next to it (not in the mag well). Same laws apply here as if when transporting?

Thanks!!

I wont rehash too much of what has already been said. Simply, any time you are going to or from your car with your ULCC, it needs to be to or from a place where you have a lawful purpose for the firearm. Examples being: gun shop, shooting range, home, work, gun smith, camping, hunting, anywhere you could lawfully UOC

It has been argued and CG has insinuated (IIRC) that they may represent an otherwise clean case involving a ULCC on any private property such as a mall or grocery store using the argument that you were in private property and could have been lawfully UOCing (hence your lawful purpose). That would be irregardless of any adjacent schools as long as Theseus's case is overturned on appeal.

Fact is unless you a carrying your ULCC around in a manner that the contents are insinuated, your risk of ending up needing to defend yourself legally are virtually zero.
 

mjones

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4armed Architect wrote:
Let me get this straight. My right to transport an unloaded, concealable firearm, locked in a secure container, is predicated upon the use of a vehicle? Sounds discriminatory to me. Why do I have to own a vehicle to transport that way? What if I walk to work?
Incorrect - 12026.1 contains exemptions for legal concealed carry in a locked container with regards to a motor vehicle. There are lots of other exemption which do not involve a motor vehicle. The most applicable exemptions are in 12026.2
 

Rusty

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If you look at those exemptions they are things like:

If you are going to a movie set to use the weapon (legally)
If you are going to a gun store to get it serviced
If you are going to a swap meet to sell it
If you are going to a target range

There is no exemption (that I can see) for just walking around with it locked in a container, unloaded.

I have seen these exemptions, but they are all very specific, and do not address the original posters question.

If you are not going to one of the mentioned activities in 12026.2, and not going in a motor vehicle, then you cannot legally carry your firearm in a locked container unloaded.

Your only option would be to Open carry. If you live in a Gun Free School Zone, then it would seem that you cannot bring your firearm with you at all, unless you are getting in a motor vehicle, or going to an activity in that strange exception list.

As a hypothetical lets say:

1. I want to carry my firearm with me for protection.
2. I plan on walking where I am going

Your only legal option in the above case would be UOC.

Now lets say:
3. I live 999 feet from a school.

Now what are my options?

I cannot UOC, 626.9 violation
I cannot carry it LUCC 12025 violation

So I am left with what? Calling a taxi to drive me outside of the school zone, then getting out and holstering up?
 

bigtoe416

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inbox485 wrote:
Fact is unless you a carrying your ULCC around in a manner that the contents are insinuated, your risk of ending up needing to defend yourself legally are virtually zero.
Interesting thread, makes me doubt the legality of LUCC. Inbox485 does have a point here though. If you're carrying a locked container around with a firearm inside of it, you aren't compelled to inform anybody that there is a firearm in the locked container. If a police officer were to stop you and search you and discover your firearm, it would not be allowed as evidence because of the exclusionary rule, and hence, your case should be dropped.

Lets say that somebody knows you have a firearm in your locked bag, and they call the cops and report that you are carrying around a locked firearm. The cops arrive and begin asking questions and you stand there mute. They decide to search your locked bag. Under Florida v. JL, any evidence found would also have to be excluded.

But lets say the person reporting you gives really great details about who you are and what you are going to do with the firearm (like say you're going to go fill a prescription but they say you're going to go rob a pharmacy). Then the cops may have the ability to search you since the reporter isn't similar to the reporter in Florida v. JL. They stop you and obtain your locked bag and you refuse to open it or to say what's in the bag. To my knowledge, the police officers would still have to obtain a warrant to open your bag, and they would have to accomplish that in a reasonable time frame. In U.S. v. Place, officers found a kilo of cocaine in Place's suitcase, but it took them 90 minutes to obtain a warrant. The SCOTUS ruled that that was too long of time for a detention.

But even if they got the search warrant and they found the firearm, they would first have to verify that you didn't have a concealed weapons permit (here I get out of my range of knowledge, feel free to call me out on stuff). You could easily have a CCW, be exercising your 5th amendment right to remain silent, be legally carrying a firearm in a locked container, and then their search warrant and everything would still fall under the exclusionary rule, even if you didn't have a CCW.

The fourth and fifth amendments are powerful indeed.

Basically the only way you can get busted for this is if a cop walks up to you and you tell him you are illegally carrying a firearm in your locked container.
 
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