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Thread: Stopped by the police tonight

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Just thought I would relate this.

    I was coming back from an instructors meeting at River Valley High School in Berrian County and was on I-94 near Benton Harbor when a State trooper pulled in behind me and started following me.

    As I was going 70 mph with the cruise set... I knew it wasn't for speed.

    NOTE it was 7:45 PM... Dark out. He followed me for 2 miles at which point he put on the party lights and I pulled off on the Niles Ave exit.

    I put on the dome light vehicle in park and turned off the radio... He walks up and starts to say License and registration. But I cut him off and said " Sir before we go any further I would like to inform you that I am a CPL Holder and I am carrying on my right side IWB." He smiles and says "NO Problem!" Can I see License and registration and proof of ins. And your CPL please"

    So then I tell him I will be reaching for my wallet right hip pocket... He says ok go ahead.

    I give him my stuff and he says well the reason I pulled you over is you have a bad connection or bulb on you left outer tailight bulb as it is flickering. I will be right back.... 2 min later he is back and hands me my stuff and says drive safe and have a good evening!

    So kudos to that Trooper!! He was friendly professional and a credit to the badge!

    Oh and just for the record I did not carry in the school.... The gun was locked in the safe in the car.

    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Just thought I would relate this.

    I was coming back from an instructors meeting at River Valley High School in Berrian County and was on I-94 near Benton Harbor when a State trooper pulled in behind me and started following me.

    As I was going 70 mph with the cruise set... I knew it wasn't for speed.

    NOTE it was 7:45 PM... Dark out. He followed me for 2 miles at which point he put on the party lights and I pulled off on the Niles Ave exit.

    I put on the dome light vehicle in park and turned off the radio... He walks up and starts to say License and registration. But I cut him off and said " Sir before we go any further I would like to inform you that I am a CPL Holder and I am carrying on my right side IWB." He smiles and says "NO Problem!" Can I see License and registration and proof of ins. And your CPL please"

    So then I tell him I will be reaching for my wallet right hip pocket... He says ok go ahead.

    I give him my stuff and he says well the reason I pulled you over is you have a bad connection or bulb on you left outer tailight bulb as it is flickering. I will be right back.... 2 min later he is back and hands me my stuff and says drive safe and have a good evening!

    So kudos to that Trooper!! He was friendly professional and a credit to the badge!

    Oh and just for the record I did not carry in the school.... The gun was locked in the safe in the car.
    Nice to hear there is another officer who is a credit to the badge. I've said it before, usually when an officer pulls one over, he tells the person the RAS right away. I see it as a sign of a fishing expedition when they don't.

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    SNIP So kudos to that Trooper!! He was friendly professional and a credit to the badge!
    Not to argue with the OPer, but I can't say kudos to the officer.

    The OP was pulled over for a fishing expedition. The proof is in the demand for license, regristration and insurance. To contrast, for illustrative purposes, if all he really wanted was to let the OPknow hehad a bum bulb, the officer could have just said, "Sir, you might want to check that back left bulb. Have a nice evening."

    Just because some courts somewhere have said so, now we have to endure being treated as a criminal suspect and verified as to identity and status while the cops get to fish. And the 4th Amendment died just that little bit more.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    In MI any time they stop you IN a vehicle they have the legal right to ask for license and registration... On foot not so much...


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    In MI any time they stop you IN a vehicle they have the legal right to ask for license and registration... On foot not so much...

    True, but his point is valid. He didn't have to ask for ID, he could have just said "your tail light is flickering get it checked out". It was an excuse, like 99% of all traffic stops are, to fish for other more serious violations. Sad but true.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    I think citizen was just pointing out that the copper had weak PC.

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    Venator wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    In MI any time they stop you IN a vehicle they have the legal right to ask for license and registration... On foot not so much...

    True, but his point is valid. He didn't have to ask for ID, he could have just said "your tail light is flickering get it checked out". It was an excuse, like 99% of all traffic stops are, to fish for other more serious violations. Sad but true.
    I'm betting whichever court(s) authorized this carefully weighed "society's interest" and "the government's interest" in ferreting out crime and traffic safety,while carefully omitting to weigh out the long term and broader effects on innocent people.

    Yeah, like we should really let the government decideon whether and how it should apply a policy designed to restrict the government. That was the first mistake.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Venator wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    In MI any time they stop you IN a vehicle they have the legal right to ask for license and registration... On foot not so much...

    True, but his point is valid. He didn't have to ask for ID, he could have just said "your tail light is flickering get it checked out". It was an excuse, like 99% of all traffic stops are, to fish for other more serious violations. Sad but true.
    Social Engineering.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Look he could have done many things... However they are pulling 300 to 100 0 pounds of weed off that stretch of road a week and an older car lou exhaust with a flickering light.. well... while maybe not ideal I get it.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    It's important to carry a recorder for the situations where you do get stopped, and to use some of this to try to prevent it from happening in the first place.





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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    filament bad..... grease don't help original bulb with 265000 miles on it...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member mel5051's Avatar
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    State Trooper already knew he had a CPL because he ran the plate while he was following him. I suspect he was wanting just what he got ie. the statement immediately that the occupant was a CPL holder, where the weapon was etc.

    I listen to them on the digital scanner all the time, being retired and on disability it's my recreation :-)

    Mel



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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Oh yeah he ran my plate... he was less than a car length from me for a good solid mile while he read the plate and keyed it in then he dropped back to about 6 car lengths for the next mile... while he ran me and then hit the reds.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    mel5051 wrote:
    State Trooper already knew he had a CPL because he ran the plate while he was following him. I suspect he was wanting just what he got ie. the statement immediately that the occupant was a CPL holder, where the weapon was etc.

    I listen to them on the digital scanner all the time, being retired and on disability it's my recreation :-)

    Mel

    afaik isnt it tied to your licence in LEIN, not your plate?
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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Ok i will break it down...

    He runs the plate and it comes back registered to **Autosurgeon**

    He clicks my name and see's that I have a CPL and a Federal Background check yearly automatic. (for my job)

    He then pulls me over for the taillight problem.

    As he now wants to know if the owner is driving the car he asks for Lic and Registration.. (this is my guess from ride along experience.)


    I then tell him I have a CPL and am carrying... I then give him the requested documents... He then goes back to the car is gone for less than 2 minutes. He swipes the DL and makes sure it matches the lein info already up on the screen. He then checks the CPL number against the one on the screen. Everything is cool so he hits the clear record key and returns my stuff and says have a nice evening.

    I reply keep safe and heads back to his car..he rolls quickly out into traffic and sets up a mile up the road and goes back to running radar. I pass him and head on home.

    NOTE some of this is my supposition of what was going on...

    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I to had a similar situation earlier this month with Napolean Township Police, It was a positive experience. I apperciate how the Officer handeled the Traffic Stop. I know he ran the plate, and came back with two different CPL numbers off of it. And my Buddie that was riding shotty was carrying concealed, Also had my gun as well. Buddie was a little nervious, First time he was involved with a encounter while having 2 guns in his possession. And the Officer knew one of the guns was mine, Before he even got my License, And my buddies License and CPL.

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    For the record, in Michigan, when an officer runs your plate he does not get back CPL information unless he has a program designed to also run the registered owner which most do not. It's technically a separate transaction in the LEIN program. Usually the officer will run the plate and then run the registered owner before pulling over the car. Your plate info provides no information about the registered owner (warrants, driving status i.e. suspended/revoked/etc, or CPL info) other than the fact that they own the vehicle. It's perfectly legal to own a vehicle and not have a license and vice versa...which is why they must also have reasonable suspicion to pull you over such as a taillight being out or a traffic violation.

    It's also very common that if an officer pulls over somebody who does not seem to belong to the vehicle...i.e. last names don't match, the story is shaky as to "well, it's, ummm....my....ummm...boyfriend's friend's car............" to have dispatch call the registered owner and ask who is supposed to have their vehicle currently. It's just a check to make sure they aren't dealing with a stolen.

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    The way i understand it to work is that if the vehicle is registered to a person with a cpl it will show that the registered owner of said vehicle is a cpl holder. The problem is that the cop has no way of knowing if the driver is actually the registered owner until the cop identifies the driver.
    That is why cpl holders, or any one who barrows a car registered to a cpl holder should always keep your hands in plain sight till the officer approaches you.

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    conservative85 wrote:
    The way i understand it to work is that if the vehicle is registered to a person with a cpl it will show that the registered owner of said vehicle is a cpl holder. The problem is that the cop has no way of knowing if the driver is actually the registered owner until the cop identifies the driver.
    That is why cpl holders, or any one who barrows a car registered to a cpl holder should always keep your hands in plain sight till the officer approaches you.
    Ourcars are registered in my wife's name, so they have no CPL data on a stop with me.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Look he could have done many things... However they are pulling 300 to 100 0 pounds of weed off that stretch of road a week and an older car lou exhaust with a flickering light.. well... while maybe not ideal I get it.
    Don't get me started on the failed drug war. Another excusefor taxation.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    Look he could have done many things... However they are pulling 300 to 100 0 pounds of weed off that stretch of road a week and an older car lou exhaust with a flickering light.. well... while maybe not ideal I get it.
    Don't get me started on the failed drug war. Another excusefor taxation.
    Oh I don't agree with it either... And many of the officers I know don't either but it is their job... and as long as it is the law they have to enforce it.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  22. #22
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    Look he could have done many things... However they are pulling 300 to 100 0 pounds of weed off that stretch of road a week and an older car lou exhaust with a flickering light.. well... while maybe not ideal I get it.
    Don't get me started on the failed drug war. Another excusefor taxation.
    Oh I don't agree with it either... And many of the officers I know don't either but it is their job... and as long as it is the law they have to enforce it.
    No they don't, an unjust law is unjust and they have a moral obligation to refuse to enforce it. Are you saying just because it's a LAW they have to enforce it? I'm not just talking about drugs here, I'm making a statement in general about any unjust law. Like enforcing segregation. It was the law. It was enforced, but it was unjust. Any one of the thousands of officers had a choice in enforcing those laws.

    Police have power and discretion and choices always!

    Sounds familiar, "I was just following orders"

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    So your boss tells you to go on a drug sting and you are a cop and you going to say nope I don't agree with drug stings... Good luck keeping the job.

    I know what is coming next... well you are better off without the job then... but when you have a family to support and in this job market ....
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I read a good quote in a book Drug War Addiction by Sheriff Bill Masters.

    7. Drug Wars and Gun Wars "Conservatives who care about the right to bear arms should also care about repealing drug prohibition. Besides the fact that prohibition drives the violence that's behind the sentiment to ban guns, drug prohibition and gun prohibition are rooted in the exact same social philosophy. Instead of regulating violent behavior, prohibitionists want to regulate inanimate objects. Historically, gun control is intimately linked to drug prohibition, as when alcohol prohibition led to the gangster violence, which became a pretext for passage of the 1934 National Firearms Act, the first federal gun legislation to apply to the general population. Liberals who are sensitive to the injustices of drug prohibition should also be wary of gun restrictions."
    live every day like its your last cause one day you will be right

  25. #25
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    So your boss tells you to go on a drug sting and you are a cop and you going to say nope I don't agree with drug stings... Good luck keeping the job.

    I know what is coming next... well you are better off without the job then... but when you have a family to support and in this job market ....
    I don't have to say what you think I will,I already did in my post. We all make choices as did the Nazi soldiers. Oh damn I made a Nazi reference, shame on me.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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