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Process for changing County Codes for Fairfax

bohdi

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http://library1.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=10051&doc_action=whatsnew

Section 30-3-6. Physical facilities, equipment and operation.

...(k)Firearms shall be stored unloaded and apart from ammunition. Firearms and ammunition shall be stored in a locked area with keys out of reach of children.

It has come to my attention that FFC FD isn't always performing inspections in a uniform way. Someone I know recently was made aware of being out of compliance with this code. I understand the intent especially with a safe that has a primary securing method of keys only. Newer safes utilize spinning combination dials, keypads, or finger print recognition. I would like to try and get this section of code modified for this person to either have it re-worded or include an exception that firearms may be loaded as long as a keyless storage container is used.

Feedback?


Edit - I am in the process of asking the county for assistance but I didn't know if anyone here had tried to do this in the past.
 

TFred

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bohdi wrote:
http://library1.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=10051&doc_action=whatsnew

Section 30-3-6. Physical facilities, equipment and operation.

...(k)Firearms shall be stored unloaded and apart from ammunition. Firearms and ammunition shall be stored in a locked area with keys out of reach of children.

It has come to my attention that FFC FD isn't always performing inspections in a uniform way. Someone I know recently was made aware of being out of compliance with this code. I understand the intent especially with a safe that has a primary securing method of keys only. Newer safes utilize spinning combination dials, keypads, or finger print recognition. I would like to try and get this section of code modified for this person to either have it re-worded or include an exception that firearms may be loaded as long as a keyless storage container is used.

Feedback?


Edit - I am in the process of asking the county for assistance but I didn't know if anyone here had tried to do this in the past.
How is this entire section (k) not invalidated by preemption?

...governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute.
Sounds to me like your efforts should be redirected.

TFred
 

Wolf_shadow

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TFred wrote:
bohdi wrote:
http://library1.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=10051&doc_action=whatsnew

Section 30-3-6. Physical facilities, equipment and operation.

...(k)Firearms shall be stored unloaded and apart from ammunition. Firearms and ammunition shall be stored in a locked area with keys out of reach of children.

It has come to my attention that FFC FD isn't always performing inspections in a uniform way. Someone I know recently was made aware of being out of compliance with this code. I understand the intent especially with a safe that has a primary securing method of keys only. Newer safes utilize spinning combination dials, keypads, or finger print recognition. I would like to try and get this section of code modified for this person to either have it re-worded or include an exception that firearms may be loaded as long as a keyless storage container is used.

Feedback?


Edit - I am in the process of asking the county for assistance but I didn't know if anyone here had tried to do this in the past.
How is this entire section (k) not invalidated by preemption?

...governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute.
Sounds to me like your efforts should be redirected.

TFred
My thought exactly. Preemption covers storage. Don't change itRemove it!:banghead:
 

bohdi

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I sort of thought that myself but am not sure how that applies to a person operating a daycare business out of their house, which is what this section of the County Code applies to. If you run that type of business, you may be inspected at anytime by the Firemarshall. This section of code is part of that inspection.
 

crazydude6030

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The way i read § 15.2-915 it seems pretty clear that the code in question can not legally be enforced. I agree with TFred, it should be removed from the books.
 

TFred

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bohdi wrote:
I sort of thought that myself but am not sure how that applies to a person operating a daycare business out of their house, which is what this section of the County Code applies to. If you run that type of business, you may be inspected at anytime by the Firemarshall. This section of code is part of that inspection.
Sure... but the preemption code doesn't say "except if you are being inspected by the fire marshall."

Etc.

Now I don't have a problem at all if the fire marshall wants to recommend that operators of daycare centers store their firearms safely. I would hope that operators of daycare centers would already be doing that. But it appears that any local fire codes mandating any type of firearm storage are simply illegal.

TFred
 

bohdi

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Yeah, I'm not a lawyer but I'd have to agree with that. Especially considering the county codes were written in 1976. Thanks for the feed back.
 

user

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bohdi wrote:
I sort of thought that myself but am not sure how that applies to a person operating a daycare business out of their house, which is what this section of the County Code applies to. If you run that type of business, you may be inspected at anytime by the Firemarshall. This section of code is part of that inspection.

I think you can safely ignore the county code. You have an absolute defense at trial if anyone were ever dumb enough to charge you with a violation of that ordinance.

Besides, it's a crime in Virginia to have guns that are not secured when children under the age of fourteen are present.

§ 18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to recklessly leave a loaded, unsecured firearm in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of any child under the age of fourteen. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. ...

Besides, the word "key" can be interpreted pretty loosely - the combination of a combination lock is the "key", and if it's stored only in your head, that satisfies the ordinance.

Get whatever kind of safe seems best for you, especially given the nature of your business, and use that.
 

bohdi

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§ 18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.


So is this like a delay of game, or the 15 yard personal foul variety?

Safe is already in place for this person. I am helping them ghost write a request to the county FD and work with the county department regulating home child care businesses.
 

bohdi

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I'm still working this issue and came across the county org chart. I am posting it here because at least on paper, it shows someone, somewhere, at sometime understood who they worked for :)
 

simmonsjoe

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TFred wrote:
bohdi wrote:
I sort of thought that myself but am not sure how that applies to a person operating a daycare business out of their house, which is what this section of the County Code applies to. If you run that type of business, you may be inspected at anytime by the Firemarshall. This section of code is part of that inspection.
Sure... but the preemption code doesn't say "except if you are being inspected by the fire marshall."

Etc.

Now I don't have a problem at all if the fire marshall wants to recommend that operators of daycare centers store their firearms safely. I would hope that operators of daycare centers would already be doing that. But it appears that any local fire codes mandating any type of firearm storage are simply illegal.

TFred
Let us be careful here. Does the fire marshall have state authority or local?
 

bohdi

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I've received word that the county attorney is now looking into the matter. I guess that is what happens when you shotgun it to the entire chain from the Fire Chief all the way up to each of the Board of Supervisors :)
 

bohdi

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This question might require a different thread - but I just noticed this

How does this section of state code

"§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization."

Not over ride this section of state code

§ 18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to recklessly leave a loaded, unsecured firearm in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of any child under the age of fourteen. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. ...


Is it due to the construction or enumeration of the statues? Meaning because 18 comes later 15 doesn't apply?
 

TFred

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bohdi wrote:
This question might require a different thread - but I just noticed this

How does this section of state code

"§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization."

Not over ride this section of state code

§ 18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to recklessly leave a loaded, unsecured firearm in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of any child under the age of fourteen. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. ...


Is it due to the construction or enumeration of the statues? Meaning because 18 comes later 15 doesn't apply?
It's much simpler than that, but in order to see it, you highlighted the wrong part. See what I highlighted and you will understand. 56.2 is "other than those expressly authorized by statute".

TFred
 

skidmark

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bohdi wrote:
This question might require a different thread - but I just noticed this

How does this section of state code

"§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization."

Not over ride this section of state code

§ 18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to recklessly leave a loaded, unsecured firearm in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of any child under the age of fourteen. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. ...


Is it due to the construction or enumeration of the statues? Meaning because 18 comes later 15 doesn't apply?
The order in which statutes appeaar in the Code of Virginia has nothing to do with ahigher number "overriding" a lower numbered statute.

18.2-56.2 criminalizes the act of recklessly endangering a minor child under the age of 14by leaving an unsecured firearm that the minor child under 14 did in fact access and endanger said child's life or limb - in other words the kid got the gun and either waved it about or shot himself or anyone else.

The county should have no business telling you how to go about preventing yourself from becoming a criminal by storing your gun any specific way -- unless the county is willing to assume all liability if something happens even though you stored the gun in accordance with their rule. Since we know that will never happen, the rule is, besides a violation of 18.2-915, merely "feel-good" legislation.

Hopefully the County Attorney will see the county code violates preemption and recommend the rule to repealed. If not, a lawsuit may be needed.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

bohdi

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TFred - Got it, thanks. That makes sense.

Skid - you had me confused with your response, and that is probably my fault. I had bolded the section for a different reason - highlighting the state statute to show the difference between FFC code and VA State. Both of what I posted in the "new question" were state statues.
 

simmonsjoe

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Please note § 18.2-56.2 Doesn't list any way you must secure it. It only tells you what you cannot do. It doesn't say you have to unload your firearm, where you must store it, or anything else.

If your firearm is loaded and in a proper holster, that is secure in any reasonable persons eyes.
 
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