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Thread: "No need for guns"

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    http://www.richmondfreepress.com/news/currentPageA.pdf

    “It’s unsettling” to have citizens bring guns into City Hall,
    Mayor Dwight C. Jones said this week. Like members of City Council, he finds it dismaying that pro-gun advocates openly wore their guns to a recent council meeting. He said the group faced no threat and had no reason “to wear guns” that only served to raise anxiety as the council members deliberated.

    Despite the concern about gun toting, the mayor, currently chairman of the Virginia Chapter of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, said in the telephone interview that he is unlikely to rush to the General Assembly to seek authority for a weapons ban.

    The former state legislator said, “It would be extremely
    difficult, if not impossible” to win passage, even if it were just for a city like Richmond that is afflicted by gun violence. The state’s capital city and other local governments are barred from passing laws involving the sale or carrying of guns.

    The mayor, who served in the legislature for 14 years and also chaired the Legislative Black Caucus, said in a state “where people have a love affair with guns,” past efforts to restrict guns in public places have been repeatedly shot
    down by the lobbying firepower of pro-gun groups like the National Rifle Association.

    The Free Press spotlighted the issue of guns at City Hall in a front-page story last week. The story focused on a visit by members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League who openly wore handguns on their belts and in shoulder holsters at the Nov. 23 council meeting when they came to lobby against council’s support for legislation to restrict gun sales.

    Despite the worry their weapons caused, their actions were legal. State law allows adults to openly carry weapons in public places except for courthouses, school property, airports and places of worship while a service is under way. But private property owners can ban weapons. Mayor Jones said he would rather keep his attention focused on the fight to close the gun show loophole in state law — the issue that brought the armed group to the council meeting. Led by their president, Philip Van Cleave, the group came to urge council to back off its support for closing the loophole, which allows individuals to freely sell weapons at gun shows without doing background checks on buyers as licensed dealers must.

    Backed by council, the mayor said he will be supporting efforts by several area legislators, including state Sen. Henry L. Marsh III of Richmond and Delegate Joseph D. Morrissey of Henrico, to close the loophole. “We came within two votes last year” of closing the loophole, the mayor said, “and we hope to do even better this year.”
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    "Gun Toters Fire Back"


    Re: “Gun toters in City Hall,” Dec. 10-12 edition:


    I find your articles on gun owners very one
    sided. Perhaps your writer and the City Council should spend some time with the gun owners in question and learn about them and their concerns before making gun owners out as evil and of ill intent.


    Then again it was obvious that several members of the council felt their own priorities were
    more important than those of the people. They would have liked to shut us down from speaking to give people an understanding of why we feel the way we do. Are the council members not supposed to be by the people and for the people?


    It seems as if many media sources, including your own, are biased in that they only want to write what best fits their own beliefs, not give
    both sides. Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertsonsaid, “I see no reason why people have to bringtheir weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.”


    Councilman Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence, added: “It wasn’t
    appropriate.” I guess in Fort Hood there was no perceived threat either. Or for that matter, Virginia Tech. Both of these cases show that the system failed, not the laws, as so many anti-gun people want you to believe. Why do we always have to make it easier for the criminals who don’t obey the laws anyway?

    I believe all of us gun owners agree that City Hall that night was probably the safest place for anyone at that particular time. Gun owners obey the laws. Criminals don’t care.


    KENNY SIPE
    Doswell


    There is a factual mistake in your “Gun toters in City Hall” article:


    The article states that guns can’t be carried
    in schools, courthouses, airports and restaurants that sell liquor. Guns CAN be carried in restaurants that serve liquor as long as they are not concealed. Gun owners do that all the time in Virginia.


    Gov. Tim Kaine did veto a bill that would have allowed for concealed carry into restaurants by concealed handgun permit holders as long is they did not drink. Forty-three other states currently allow concealed handgun permit holders to carry concealed firearms in such restaurants. Prior to 1995, when Virginia went from a “may-issue” to a “shall-issue” concealed handgun permit state, it was legal to carry concealed guns in restaurants.


    The change was not spurred by any problems, just politics back then. The 6 million concealed handgun permit holders in the United States are among the most law-abiding of any group of citizens.


    PHILIP VAN CLEAVE Chesterfield County

    The writer is president of Virginia Citizens Defense League.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    For those that don't know the Free Press has a very radical, racist agenda. If you want to look at why the city has the racial problems it has; you don't have to look any farther than the Free Press. When the Free Press writes about something often times they will harp on it.

    Here is some of their recurring themes:

    • Richmond Times dispatch = bad, racists
    • Ukrop's grocery stores = bad, racists
    • Republicans = bad, racists, and confederates
    • People that they don't agree with are often compared to as confederates.
    • They almost always will endorse a black candidate over a white one. I have never found an instance where this wasn't true.
    • They do a horrible job fact checking. (Just look at PVC's LTE)
    • They edit or ommit portions of letters to the editor they don't agree with.
    You can expect the Free Press to show up at lobby day and fabricate a quote, and or story. I fully expect them to harp on the "Gun Toters" story, and I will predict that eventually they will compare us to confederates or they will write something about how so many of us are white males.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:
    * Republicans = bad, racists, and confederates
    * People that they don't agree with are often compared to as confederates.
    W00t!

    Also
    “where people have a love affair with LIBERTY,”
    Had to fix that little typo for him. I'm quite sure it was unintentional.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    How come the NRA always gets the press as THE GUN RIGHTS LOBBY. They don't amount to much in Va.:X

    VCDL is Virginia's number one gun lobby!

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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    How come the NRA always gets the press as THE GUN RIGHTS LOBBY. They don't amount to much in Va.:X

    VCDL is Virginia's number one gun lobby!
    They are afraid the more publicity they give VCDL the more people will know the truth and the misconceptions of gun owners. Just my guess.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Is "****** bag" considering swearing according to the forum rules?

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    Regular Member AtackDuck's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    How come the NRA always gets the press as THE GUN RIGHTS LOBBY. They don't amount to much in Va.:X

    VCDL is Virginia's number one gun lobby!
    Let's hope they don't try to help us, as they are in Iowa. NRA needs to stay on the national level and stay out of state/local affairs, unless invited.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I never can understand why many black community leaders/groups speak out against guns as racist. A lot of gun control is racist in origins and practice. Just look at MAY ISSUE permits. It leaves discretion to someone who doesn't have to justify why he said 'no.' Thankfully that is gone.

    The ban in churches 'without good and sufficient reason' is arbitrary and without structure. It refuses people's right to defend their 1st amendment right to freedom of religion. Of course nobody would dare violate that right anyways, right?? It's not like church burning was common or anything..... oh wait, it was for black churches.

    California changed the law to disallow loaded firearms from being carried in public because the Black Panthers were carrying loaded shotguns. To this day if you OC in CA it must be unloaded. This being a liberal hotbed state too. They keep it that way now because they are trying to subjugate everyone, not just the blacks.

    Wake up black people!! Your 'leaders' are trying to keep you second class citizens! They require you to beg for the privilege of protection from the police! If you want rights, they come with responsibilities. Stand up and protect your right to life. Be pro-gun. Be pro-liberty.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    A lot ...
    I'd go so far as to say most, if not almost all. And yet the press and the "PC" establishment turns it around and makes it look like we are the one who want to harm the black community.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=%22gun+control%22+racism

    Some eye-opening material there.

    TFred


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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    I never can understand why many black community leaders/groups speak out against guns as racist. A lot of gun control is racist in origins and practice. Just look at MAY ISSUE permits. It leaves discretion to someone who doesn't have to justify why he said 'no.' Thankfully that is gone.

    The ban in churches 'without good and sufficient reason' is arbitrary and without structure. It refuses people's right to defend their 1st amendment right to freedom of religion. Of course nobody would dare violate that right anyways, right?? It's not like church burning was common or anything..... oh wait, it was for black churches.

    California changed the law to disallow loaded firearms from being carried in public because the Black Panthers were carrying loaded shotguns. To this day if you OC in CA it must be unloaded. This being a liberal hotbed state too. They keep it that way now because they are trying to subjugate everyone, not just the blacks.

    Wake up black people!! Your 'leaders' are trying to keep you second class citizens! They require you to beg for the privilege of protection from the police! If you want rights, they come with responsibilities. Stand up and protect your right to life. Be pro-gun. Be pro-liberty.
    Black "leaders" like to raise the race issue because it quiets opposing arguments since those in opposition believe that they will then be viewed as being racist. It is an old but proven tactic used by liberals and racist blacks to stigmatize those with whom they take issue. This is the case regardless of whether the issue in question is guns or jobs or welfare or anything regarded as a sensitive or hot topic.

    The really sad thing about this is these so-called black "leaders" are doing nothing more than to continue to advance separation of white and black Americans, most of whom are good and decent people.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    It’s unsettling” to have citizens bring guns into City Hall, Mayor Dwight C. Jones said this week. Like members of City Council, he finds it dismaying that pro-gun advocates openly wore their guns to a recent council meeting. He said the group faced no threat and had no reason “to wear guns” that only served to raise anxiety as the council members deliberated.
    Apparently he doesn't know what's going on under his nose within sight of city hall.

    Crimes in previous year within 1/10th of a mile (that's 528 feet or less than 2 football fields).



    Now lets widen it out to 1/2 mile:



    No wonder I feel the need to carry whenever I'm in Richmond!

    Source: http://richmondcrime.org/



    spelling correction

  13. #13
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    raftgyde wrote:
    It’s unsettling” to have citizens bring guns into City Hall, Mayor Dwight C. Jones said this week. Like members of City Council, he finds it dismaying that pro-gun advocates openly wore their guns to a recent council meeting. He said the group faced no threat and had no reason “to wear guns” that only served to raise anxiety as the council members deliberated.
    Apparently he doesn't know what's going on under his nose within sight of city hall.

    Crimes in previous year within 1/10th of a mile (that's 528 feet or less than 2 football fields).



    Now lets widen it out to 1/2 mile:



    No wonder I feel the need to carry whenever I'm in Richmond!

    Source: http://richmondcrime.org/



    spelling correction
    HELLO MAYOR JONES! STOP TELLING US WE ARE SAFE.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    You did not give the parameters of your search nor the you list the types of calls. The web site typically list calls for service which may or may not indicate that a crime has occurred.

    You guys are way off base if you think those numbers are directly related to crime in Richmond. My search for the last 30 days came no where close to your figures.

    But I do understand that when one perceives themself to be on the losing end of an argument you can say what ever you want and paint whatever picture you want because a certain percentage of the population will believe you. If you don;t believe just look at the car tax fiasco. No Governor has the power to get rid of anything without the General Assembly's support.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    kenny wrote:
    You did not give the parameters of your search nor the you list the types of calls. The web site typically list calls for service which may or may not indicate that a crime has occurred.

    You guys are way off base if you think those numbers are directly related to crime in Richmond. My search for the last 30 days came no where close to your figures.
    Raftgyde said "previous year". I wish I was learned enough to compile factual data. I would present that to the mayor. I wish someone would ask him after they introduced hard data, "Just how many more crimes would have to be committed for us to excercise our constitutionaly protected right?"


    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    O.K. I missed the previous year thing, but we are still talking about calls for service and not actual crimes against persons.

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    Ok, I'll try to be more precise. Crimes reported near (within 0.1 miles and 0.5 miles) of900 East Broad Street, Richmond, Virginia 23219 (City Hall) in the year prior to the night VCDL members attended the Richmond City Council meeting.



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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Well, using the above-cited cite, you CAN theoretically search for crimes by type, but when you try to run the searches, it returns an error. Probably because there are too many violent crimes for it to effectively plot... :shock:

    Ah, the wonders of modern technology...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    The Richmond Homicide Report seems easy to use:

    Research homicides in Richmond and Central Virginia by searching the Homicide Report database and archive. Search for murders that occurred from January 2007 to the present.

    Search terms may be combined to get more detailed results, or explore the map by clicking on the pushpins to show individual records. You can pan and zoom with the left-hand navigation pane.

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    A years worth of calls for service up to a half mile away from City hall is real scientific. Subtract the hit & runs, theft from vehicle, court documents etc and you have nothing to remark about.

    A half a mile away is like night and day in Richmond. I suspect if you look hard enough the people committing the so called crimes you are concerned with are from the surrounding localities any way.

    Go to the RPD statistic web site and search by neighborhood, City Hall is located in the Capital District. it returns 192 results for the past year. They include hit & run, domestic assault, robbery, vice, court documents, dui, vehicle theft and so on.

    Please don't infer the streets of Richmond around City Hall are not safe unless you have the information to back it up.



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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    raftgyde wrote:


    No wonder I feel the need to carry whenever I'm in Richmond!

    Source: http://richmondcrime.org/



    spelling correction
    That is one sweet map, you whitewater fool you! I will be printing up copies for lobby day to give to anyone asking "why do you need a gun?" Thx!
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    kenny wrote:
    A years worth of calls for service up to a half mile away from City hall is real scientific. Subtract the hit & runs, theft from vehicle, court documents etc and you have nothing to remark about.

    A half a mile away is like night and day in Richmond. I suspect if you look hard enough the people committing the so called crimes you are concerned with are from the surrounding localities any way.

    Go to the RPD statistic web site and search by neighborhood, City Hall is located in the Capital District. it returns 192 results for the past year. They include hit & run, domestic assault, robbery, vice, court documents, dui, vehicle theft and so on.

    Please don't infer the streets of Richmond around City Hall are not safe unless you have the information to back it up.
    Don't need to - you just provided it and it really doesn't make any difference where the bg lives, its where the crime occurs - kinda of like being in the Fan or around VCU don't you know.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I guess I am thinking you might be able to win a small battle with less than honest information. However the war if you will has to have a logical thought process to ascertain all of the aspects of a situation. Just because a court document was served, a DUI arrested, a vehicle broken into or other property crime occurs may not give a logical response to counter act the Mayor's stance on gun issues in a city that has been plagued with gun violence over generations.

    With these folks you have got to have something more than just because the 2A says so.

    Perhaps some recruiting or positive PR among the many neighborhood groups in the city limits might help?

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    kenny wrote:
    I guess I am thinking you might be able to win a small battle with less than honest information. However the war if you will has to have a logical thought process to ascertain all of the aspects of a situation. Just because a court document was served, a DUI arrested, a vehicle broken into or other property crime occurs may not give a logical response to counter act the Mayor's stance on gun issues in a city that has been plagued with gun violence over generations.

    With these folks you have got to have something more than just because the 2A says so.

    Perhaps some recruiting or positive PR among the many neighborhood groups in the city limits might help?
    Agree that solid reliable facts are best.
    Do I think that council will pay them heed - no.
    There is considerable evidence to the contrary.

    IMO - State preemption and open meeting laws are the only tools we need to combat council's desire to restrict us.

    While we have numerous posters/members from Richmond, recruiting members (supporters) from the inner city is a different matter but a desirable one. The more we are represented by a complete cross-section of demographics the better.

    Thought - Are there any pro-gun attorneys from that area that might be willing to stand with us and speak the next time we go to City Council?

    Yata hey

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Is there anyone in VIrginia that thinks that a logical argument can be made and supported that the streets of Richmond are crime free?

    I think the stats speak volumes on this point and it does not matter of the maps you have show radio calls or proven crimes. Someone felt the need to report because they saw or heard something that set their situational awareness alarms off. That is sufficient to show that an area of the city has issues with regard to personal security.

    The fact is that politicians in Richmond do not want the citizens of the city to be armed. They are fearful that an armed city would just increase the crime rate, but more importantly they are afraid that armed citizens would be free to act against the state and city governments by acting against the true criminal elements in the state.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
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