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"No need for guns"

riverrat10k

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raftgyde wrote:
crimemap5.jpg


No wonder I feel the need to carry whenever I'm in Richmond!

Source: http://richmondcrime.org/



spelling correction
That is one sweet map, you whitewater fool you! I will be printing up copies for lobby day to give to anyone asking "why do you need a gun?" Thx!
 

Grapeshot

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kenny wrote:
A years worth of calls for service up to a half mile away from City hall is real scientific. Subtract the hit & runs, theft from vehicle, court documents etc and you have nothing to remark about.

A half a mile away is like night and day in Richmond. I suspect if you look hard enough the people committing the so called crimes you are concerned with are from the surrounding localities any way.

Go to the RPD statistic web site and search by neighborhood, City Hall is located in the Capital District. it returns 192 results for the past year. They include hit & run, domestic assault, robbery, vice, court documents, dui, vehicle theft and so on.

Please don't infer the streets of Richmond around City Hall are not safe unless you have the information to back it up.
Don't need to - you just provided it and it really doesn't make any difference where the bg lives, its where the crime occurs - kinda of like being in the Fan or around VCU don't you know.

Yata hey
 

kenny

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I guess I am thinking you might be able to win a small battle with less than honest information. However the war if you will has to have a logical thought process to ascertain all of the aspects of a situation. Just because a court document was served, a DUI arrested, a vehicle broken into or other property crime occurs may not give a logical response to counter act the Mayor's stance on gun issues in a city that has been plagued with gun violence over generations.

With these folks you have got to have something more than just because the 2A says so.

Perhaps some recruiting or positive PR among the many neighborhood groups in the city limits might help?
 

Grapeshot

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kenny wrote:
I guess I am thinking you might be able to win a small battle with less than honest information. However the war if you will has to have a logical thought process to ascertain all of the aspects of a situation. Just because a court document was served, a DUI arrested, a vehicle broken into or other property crime occurs may not give a logical response to counter act the Mayor's stance on gun issues in a city that has been plagued with gun violence over generations.

With these folks you have got to have something more than just because the 2A says so.

Perhaps some recruiting or positive PR among the many neighborhood groups in the city limits might help?
Agree that solid reliable facts are best.
Do I think that council will pay them heed - no.
There is considerable evidence to the contrary.

IMO - State preemption and open meeting laws are the only tools we need to combat council's desire to restrict us.

While we have numerous posters/members from Richmond, recruiting members (supporters) from the inner city is a different matter but a desirable one. The more we are represented by a complete cross-section of demographics the better.

Thought - Are there any pro-gun attorneys from that area that might be willing to stand with us and speak the next time we go to City Council?

Yata hey

Yata hey
 

Hawkflyer

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Is there anyone in VIrginia that thinks that a logical argument can be made and supported that the streets of Richmond are crime free?

I think the stats speak volumes on this point and it does not matter of the maps you have show radio calls or proven crimes. Someone felt the need to report because they saw or heard something that set their situational awareness alarms off. That is sufficient to show that an area of the city has issues with regard to personal security.

The fact is that politicians in Richmond do not want the citizens of the city to be armed. They are fearful that an armed city would just increase the crime rate, but more importantly they are afraid that armed citizens would be free to act against the state and city governments by acting against the true criminal elements in the state.:banghead:

Regards
 

simmonsjoe

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Is there anyone in VIrginia that thinks that a logical argument can be made and supported that the streets of Richmond are crime free?

I think the stats speak volumes on this point and it does not matter of the maps you have show radio calls or proven crimes. Someone felt the need to report because they saw or heard something that set their situational awareness alarms off. That is sufficient to show that an area of the city has issues with regard to personal security.

The fact is that politicians in Richmond do not want the citizens of the city to be armed. They are fearful that an armed city would just increase the crime rate, but more importantly they are afraid that armed citizens would be free to act against the state and city governments by acting against the true criminal elements in the state.:banghead:

Regards
Well lemmie see! Hmm. Crime free means, umm, NO CRIME rights?? well.....
I have been shot at twice in my life, one of those persons I shot back fatally wounding him.
I've been strong arm (attempted) robberies twice in my life. (both failed)
I've seen 2 people shot at, on different occasions, from my balcony.
3 kids were found beaten to death and stuffed into the trunk of a car a block away from my apartment.
7 women were forcibly raped within two blocks of my apartment (different apartment) within two weeks.
My boss was surrounded and threatened and heckled by a group of black men and women because he was Middle eastern. Because I hate race crimes, I waited till my boss(crazy) told them he had all the WMD's then ran outside with an AK47 yelling some fake Arabic and scared the @#$% out of them.
And one I'm not proud of, I hit a transvestite with my car because he/she/it wouldn't get out of the roadway and was flirting with me. It was just a tap. No damage just a broken heel. (I guess I was the perp this time?)

I'm 27 years old. I lived in Richmond for 4 years. All this occurred while I lived in Richmond AND I was either involved or saw/heard something.

I guess that is pretty crime free. I'm gonna go find a gun buy-back now.:banghead:
 

kenny

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simmonsjoe wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Is there anyone in VIrginia that thinks that a logical argument can be made and supported that the streets of Richmond are crime free?

I think the stats speak volumes on this point and it does not matter of the maps you have show radio calls or proven crimes. Someone felt the need to report because they saw or heard something that set their situational awareness alarms off. That is sufficient to show that an area of the city has issues with regard to personal security.

The fact is that politicians in Richmond do not want the citizens of the city to be armed. They are fearful that an armed city would just increase the crime rate, but more importantly they are afraid that armed citizens would be free to act against the state and city governments by acting against the true criminal elements in the state.:banghead:

Regards
Well lemmie see! Hmm.  Crime free means, umm, NO CRIME rights?? well.....
I have been shot at twice in my life, one of those persons I shot back fatally wounding him.
I've been strong arm (attempted) robberies twice in my life. (both failed)
I've seen 2 people shot at, on different occasions, from my balcony.
3 kids were found beaten to death and stuffed into the trunk of a car a block away from my apartment.
7 women were forcibly raped within two blocks of my apartment (different apartment) within two weeks.
My boss was surrounded and threatened and heckled by a group of black men and women because he was Middle eastern.  Because I hate race crimes, I waited till my boss(crazy) told them he had all the WMD's then ran outside with an AK47 yelling some fake Arabic and scared the @#$% out of them.
And one I'm not proud of, I hit a transvestite with my car because he/she/it wouldn't get out of the roadway and was flirting with me.  It was just a tap.  No damage just a broken heel. (I guess I was the perp this time?)

I'm 27 years old.  I lived in Richmond for 4 years.  All this occurred while I lived in Richmond AND I was either involved or saw/heard something.

I guess that is pretty crime free.  I'm gonna go find a gun buy-back now.:banghead:

Wow, I'm sure glad you moved. You seem to attract an undesirable element.
 

riverrat10k

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Is there anyone in VIrginia that thinks that a logical argument can be made and supported that the streets of Richmond are crime free?

I think the stats speak volumes on this point and it does not matter of the maps you have show radio calls or proven crimes. Someone felt the need to report because they saw or heard something that set their situational awareness alarms off. That is sufficient to show that an area of the city has issues with regard to personal security.

The fact is that politicians in Richmond do not want the citizens of the city to be armed. They are fearful that an armed city would just increase the crime rate, but more importantly they are afraid that armed citizens would be free to act against the state and city governments by acting against the true criminal elements in the state.:banghead:

Regards
I became serious about my self defense almost 4 years ago to the day. Bryan, Kathryn, Stella, Ruby......Rest in Peace
 

Repeater

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The Richmond Times Dispatch choose to write a glowing article on Mayor Jones:

Richmond mayor cites first-year accomplishments

20091227_jone.jpg


Palsy-Walsies Kaine and Jones

Richmond Mayor Dwight C. Jones spent his first year at City Hall nurturing relationships with the City Council and the School Board, assembling his administrative team, and reviving plans to build schools and modernize the city jail.

In practically every way, the Baptist minister and former state delegate has operated in cool contrast to his fiery, unpredictable predecessor, former Gov. L. Douglas Wilder.

"If we're going to get something done, it's going to require us to work together."

Oh really? Is he willing to work with gun owners?

Council members and others credit Jones for restoring order after four tumultuous years under Wilder, but some question whether the mayor may be too deliberate and City Hall too cozy.

The relationship also has improved at the administrative level, she said. "Just in day-to-day dealings with the city, things are much more collegial and cooperative."
Jones, the second elected mayor under Richmond's new form of government, said he's pleased with the work and the tone of his administration, and he declared that "city government is beginning to work again."

Richard Cullen, chairman of the McGuireWoods law firm who represented Wilder in the legal cases, said Jones has "shown himself to be very smart and savvy. He has tried to build coalitions. He's reached out to the business community. I think he's had a very productive first year."

One byproduct of the cooperation has been an agreement by the mayor and the council to seek General Assembly approval of only a few amendments to the city charter that both sides support. Oh yeah, like what?

"On the major issues, I think there's a willingness to compromise on both sides," Council President Kathy C. Graziano said.

Sen. State Henry L. Marsh III, D-Richmond, a longtime friend of Jones who was hired to provide government advocacy assistance to the Shockoe Center developers, praised the mayor's work and cautious style.

"I think there's optimism among many people of Richmond because of his leadership style and vision for the city," said Marsh, a former Richmond mayor. "The challenges of the city are great, and I think if you rush in and make hasty decisions, it would be a mistake."

He's at ease in public forums and City Council meetings and more reserved than his predecessor.

While acknowledging that some critics may want more fireworks at City Hall, Jones said he's determined to be judged on accomplishments and not style.
 

Grapeshot

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riverrat10k wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Is there anyone in VIrginia that thinks that a logical argument can be made and supported that the streets of Richmond are crime free?

I think the stats speak volumes on this point and it does not matter of the maps you have show radio calls or proven crimes. Someone felt the need to report because they saw or heard something that set their situational awareness alarms off. That is sufficient to show that an area of the city has issues with regard to personal security.

The fact is that politicians in Richmond do not want the citizens of the city to be armed. They are fearful that an armed city would just increase the crime rate, but more importantly they are afraid that armed citizens would be free to act against the state and city governments by acting against the true criminal elements in the state.:banghead:

Regards
I became serious about my self defense almost 4 years ago to the day. Bryan, Kathryn, Stella, Ruby......Rest in Peac
The Harvey family - Jan. 1, 2006

:cry:

Yata hey
 

kenny

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This post started out condemning the Richmond Free Press for Editorial material related to the Mayor of Richmond participation and support of NYC's Mayor Bloomberg anti gun stance. Obviously this topic is very important to everyone.

Then someone add the Google Crime search map for the immediate area around City Hall. To which I pointed out were primarily routine calls for service in the immediate area. The map looked impressive and would sway the non knowledgeable individual. There was only one crime in a six block area around Richmond City Hall that would have even justified the use of deadly force during the previous and that was a drug deal gone bad. Both of them could have dead as far as I am concerned.

Then we have someone post about all of their personal experience with crime in areas they lived or traveled in. My friend I repeat, I am glad you moved. It appears some of the crime moved with you.

Then someone add the Harvey family to the discussion. For those who do not know the Harvey was brutally murdered in their home a few years ago. The murderers were caught and dealt with.

Just once I wish we could stay on topic and keep the conversation with serious, legitimate argument of facts regarding a given topic.

We will never be able to win over or persuade anyone to see our views as long as we continue to run circles, talk out of the sides of our mouth or for the most part sound like a politician when we try to confuse the issue.

We need respect and admiration from everyone. Knowledge is power and the Truth is more powerful than Knowledge. Look and act like a gentleman or gentlelady and be treated like one in return.

My I add my RIP for the Harvey family. That day changed my life.
 

peter nap

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kenny wrote:
This post started out condemning the Richmond Free Press for Editorial material related to the Mayor of Richmond participation and support of NYC's Mayor Bloomberg anti gun stance. Obviously this topic is very important to everyone.

Then someone add the Google Crime search map for the immediate area around City Hall. To which I pointed out were primarily routine calls for service in the immediate area. The map looked impressive and would sway the non knowledgeable individual. There was only one crime in a six block area around Richmond City Hall that would have even justified the use of deadly force during the previous and that was a drug deal gone bad. Both of them could have dead as far as I am concerned.

Then we have someone post about all of their personal experience with crime in areas they lived or traveled in. My friend I repeat, I am glad you moved. It appears some of the crime moved with you.

Then someone add the Harvey family to the discussion. For those who do not know the Harvey was brutally murdered in their home a few years ago. The murderers were caught and dealt with.

Just once I wish we could stay on topic and keep the conversation with serious, legitimate argument of facts regarding a given topic.

We will never be able to win over or persuade anyone to see our views as long as we continue to run circles, talk out of the sides of our mouth or for the most part sound like a politician when we try to confuse the issue.

We need respect and admiration from everyone. Knowledge is power and the Truth is more powerful than Knowledge. Look and act like a gentleman or gentlelady and be treated like one in return.

My I add my RIP for the Harvey family. That day changed my life.
Kenny, what you say has a lot of merit and some of the crime statics are exaggerated, but...
when it comes to Richmond, one could post crime details notarized by the Pope and you would still argue with them. That's fine too, but when you argue, you, you talk down to the poster and in general the entire board.

I'm glad you like Richmond. It shows there's a place for everyone, but once again, you're talking down to the thread.

Why don't you start your own thread. Everyone can refrain from posting and you can argue with yourself.
 

Grapeshot

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Can we go with there is little crime in Richmond, especially downtown, the Fan/VCU area and Shockoe Bottom?

Gee maybe City Council and the Mayor are right. :quirky :lol: Darn, could do that with a straight face.

I do not need evidence of crime(s) to know that it is possible anywhere at anytime and I do not appreciate City Hall temporary tenants suggesting that I am the bg.

To imply that an honest citizen is somehow responsible for crimes that have occurred either to him or around him is devoid of any redeeming value and does not belong here.

Yata hey
 

Hawkflyer

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Well the whole purpose of carry is so you will have the thing with you if you need it. Most people would not go some place if they KNEW for certain that they would need a firearm to defend themself. So the whole concept of "they don't need a gun here" is stupid.

A person needs the ability and the means to self defense everywhere. This is not about the needs of anyone but the council. Studies have proven that criminals are more afraid of firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens, than they are of armed LEOs. So what is with these ..... Oh wait a minute.... Never mind:banghead:
 

kenny

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What you my not understand is why should the elected officials or any one listen to people who have no connection to the city if they are using inflated facts, egos or whatever to present their side of an argument.

Not once have I heard anyone say anything about how we can change or go about changing the way the city is. They all want to demand this or that or hide behind the 2A, just like the city uses the race card from time to time.

Some of you are starting to sound like a bunch of old queens.
 

kenny

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Grapeshot wrote:
Can we go with there is little crime in Richmond, especially downtown, the Fan/VCU area and Shockoe Bottom?

Gee maybe City Council and the Mayor are right. :quirky :lol: Darn, could do that with a straight face.

I do not need evidence of crime(s) to know that it is possible anywhere at anytime and I do not appreciate City Hall temporary tenants suggesting that I am the bg.

To imply that an honest citizen is somehow responsible for crimes that have occurred either to him or around him is devoid of any redeeming value and does not belong here.

    Yata hey

No, because there is crime, just not the kind you need a gun to defend yourself with.

As far as being an honest citizen, the only one that I am sure about is me.
 

Grapeshot

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kenny wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Can we go with there is little crime in Richmond, especially downtown, the Fan/VCU area and Shockoe Bottom?

Gee maybe City Council and the Mayor are right. :quirky :lol: Darn, could do that with a straight face.

I do not need evidence of crime(s) to know that it is possible anywhere at anytime and I do not appreciate City Hall temporary tenants suggesting that I am the bg.

To imply that an honest citizen is somehow responsible for crimes that have occurred either to him or around him is devoid of any redeeming value and does not belong here.

Yata hey

No, because there is crime, just not the kind you need a gun to defend yourself with.

As far as being an honest citizen, the only one that I am sure about is me.
I understand your assertion, that there has been no history of violent crime within a certain radius of City Hall but the qualifying phrase "not the kind you need a gun to defend yourself with" invalidates your entire premise.

Any criminal activity has the potential to turn violent in the blink of any eye and for that sir, we need the ability to defend ourselves..... even in this mythical safe zone.

Too suggest otherwise is ludicrous IMO.

Too I am glad that at long last Diogenes has found you.

Yata hey
 

curtiswr

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kenny wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Can we go with there is little crime in Richmond, especially downtown, the Fan/VCU area and Shockoe Bottom?

Gee maybe City Council and the Mayor are right. :quirky :lol: Darn, could do that with a straight face.

I do not need evidence of crime(s) to know that it is possible anywhere at anytime and I do not appreciate City Hall temporary tenants suggesting that I am the bg.

To imply that an honest citizen is somehow responsible for crimes that have occurred either to him or around him is devoid of any redeeming value and does not belong here.

Yata hey

No, because there is crime, just not the kind you need a gun to defend yourself with.

As far as being an honest citizen, the only one that I am sure about is me.

Before you turn yours in at a Gun Buyback will you give me a chance to make an offer? I'll do better than a $100 grocery card.
 

skidmark

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Curtis wrote:
kenny wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Can we go with there is little crime in Richmond, especially downtown, the Fan/VCU area and Shockoe Bottom?

Gee maybe City Council and the Mayor are right. :quirky :lol: Darn, could do that with a straight face.

I do not need evidence of crime(s) to know that it is possible anywhere at anytime and I do not appreciate City Hall temporary tenants suggesting that I am the bg.

To imply that an honest citizen is somehow responsible for crimes that have occurred either to him or around him is devoid of any redeeming value and does not belong here.

Yata hey

No, because there is crime, just not the kind you need a gun to defend yourself with.

As far as being an honest citizen, the only one that I am sure about is me.

Before you turn yours in at a Gun Buyback will you give me a chance to make an offer? I'll do better than a $100 grocery card.

I'll beat any offer Curtis makes by $5.00. I'll even let you shoot my Downsizer once at no cost to you.;)

As for the question of whether or not there is crime in Richmond, within x feet of City Hall, or even the type of crime that needs a firearm to defend against --

the reason I carry is "in case I need it" - not "because I know I'll need it here but not there". Until and unless City Council can provide me with the same level of security I provide to myself, at the same cost as I currently incur, I'll continue to carry and take care of my own security.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

Hawkflyer

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skidmark wrote:
Curtis wrote:
kenny wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Can we go with there is little crime in Richmond, especially downtown, the Fan/VCU area and Shockoe Bottom?

Gee maybe City Council and the Mayor are right. :quirky :lol: Darn, could do that with a straight face.

I do not need evidence of crime(s) to know that it is possible anywhere at anytime and I do not appreciate City Hall temporary tenants suggesting that I am the bg.

To imply that an honest citizen is somehow responsible for crimes that have occurred either to him or around him is devoid of any redeeming value and does not belong here.

    Yata hey

No, because there is crime, just not the kind you need a gun to defend yourself with.

As far as being an honest citizen, the only one that I am sure about is me.

Before you turn yours in at a Gun Buyback will you give me a chance to make an offer? I'll do better than a $100 grocery card.

I'll beat any offer Curtis makes by $5.00.  I'll even let you shoot my Downsizer once at no cost to you.;)

As for the question of whether or not there is crime in Richmond, within x feet of City Hall, or even the type of crime that needs a firearm to defend against --

the reason I carry is "in case I need it" - not "because I know I'll need it here but not there".  Until and unless City Council can provide me with the same level of security I provide to myself, at the same cost as I currently incur, I'll continue to carry and take care of my own security.

stay safe.

skidmark

+1

AND Because I need the thing while traveling home.:banghead:
 
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