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Fairfax/Manassas VA - January 2 - highpower rifle match - weather permitting

W.E.G.

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As far as I know, there has NEVER been a larceny from an automobile at Fairfax Rod and Gun Club.

If concealed-carry is not an option, I am 100% sure your sidearm will be safe if stored in your car.

The rule about open-carry at FRGC has existed since the club opened a half-century ago.
The Board of Directors makes the rules.
Members who take exception to existing rules are encouraged to join the board.

Secondarily, and consistent with the preceding comment, in events governed by NRA rules, I call your attention to rule 18.9.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-w18.pdf
While this rule is addressed specifically to "competitors," I think it is reasonable that it apply equally to spectators.
If the competitors can't walk around with loaded weapons at the match, how could it be that such conduct would be allowed by spectators?
 

W.E.G.

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I suppose the logical question from my comment just above is:

"If my handgun is UNLOADED, is open-carry OK?"

Honestly, I'm not completely sure about that.

I can tell you that I got "busted" in 1996 at FRGC for open-carrying a cocked-and-locked 1911. I was serving as a volunteer, coaching a rifle marksmanship clinic at the time. My actions caused considerable consternation among the parties concerned. It was eventually decided that I would be permitted to retain the gun in my open holster so long as it was unloaded.

I can say with certainty that I would NOT rely on my anecdote as "precedent" for how similar future situations would be handled. I can say with certainty that it was a very uncomfortable encounter. Since that incident, I have made it my objective to avoid that sort of attention at FRGC.
 

W.E.G.

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THE JANUARY 2 MATCH IS OFFICIALLY ON!

From: arwillard
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: concern about ice forming on asphalt on west side of spillway

Gary;

I just got back from the club where I wasted a bunch of good pistol ammo. Anywho, I estimate about a dozen vehicles crossed the spillway during the time I was there and there was no visible evidence of water building up on the west side of the spillway. There is water passing over the spillway, however it is less than the length of a car. So, I am going to run the match as scheduled. I know of at least two shooters who plan to be there. If the turnout is small I will not be disappointed...doesn't matter to me if 2 show up or 12 show up.

Thanks for your input,
Alan

From: arwillard
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: concern about ice forming on asphalt on west side of spillway

Gary;

One other thing I forgot to mention...the club manager will not assist anyone who may end up in a ditch or the lake. If you plan to post info to the internutz, you may want to let them know that if they attend the match they will be doing so at their own risk.
 

nova

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I'll see if I can make it out to watch (I don't have a qualifying rifle at the moment and I'd rather observe a match before participating).

As I said in my previous post, I won't argue with private property owners setting their own rules, since I'm not forced in any way to go there.
 

W.E.G.

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see y'all at 0800

dresswarmly.jpg
 

Hawkflyer

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nova wrote:
...SNIP
Two things aren't necessarily correct here. You say that there shouldn't be any loaded firearms wondering around so no OC. You then say that CC is fine. Negative comments regarding the no OC rule should be expected, this is a website for Open Carry, afterall :).

And just because it is private property does not mean you can CC with no permit. You still must have a CHP, with few exceptions. OC isn't always about political statements, it's also done for comfort and other times it is required by law (like in my case)

I'll still might come out and watch, and I'll respect their no-OC policy since it is their property and I'm a guest.

Well of course you need permission to CC on private property that is not your own, however I think that permission is included in the statement that "CC is OK" at this range. It is predicted to be in the 20's tomorrow. Usually this would mean people wear a jacket for comfort so It is not like you will be removing your coat because of the merciless heat. My point was that the police will not arrest people CCing with the permission of the land owner on private property.

The fact is that allowing CC is a CONCESSION and EXCEPTION to the normal safety rules. But I can assure you that if you try that at almost any other competition it will not be allowed. Run over to Quantico or Fort Belvior, or as was pointed out, the NRA range, or Camp Perry and you will see the rule enforced very strictly. These guys are trying to be polite.

People who take this OC or nothing approach are just as bad as the CC or nothing people.

These guys invited you to bring your defense weapon and carry it CC. This is no different than if someone invited you to a range at their home and said they did not want you to OC around the property. My point was that I do not understand why people make such a big deal out of not being allowed to OC for a few hours under special circumstances. If is really that important to you to OC then don't come to the match, but don't make comments on here that may be considered derogatory to the people who have extended this invitation or they might not be so gracious in the future.

No slam intended, just saying.
 

nova

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Hawkflyer wrote:
nova wrote:
...SNIP
Two things aren't necessarily correct here. You say that there shouldn't be any loaded firearms wondering around so no OC. You then say that CC is fine. Negative comments regarding the no OC rule should be expected, this is a website for Open Carry, afterall :).

And just because it is private property does not mean you can CC with no permit. You still must have a CHP, with few exceptions. OC isn't always about political statements, it's also done for comfort and other times it is required by law (like in my case)

I'll still might come out and watch, and I'll respect their no-OC policy since it is their property and I'm a guest.

Well of course you need permission to CC on private property that is not your own, however I think that permission is included in the statement that "CC is OK" at this range. It is predicted to be in the 20's tomorrow. Usually this would mean people wear a jacket for comfort so It is not like you will be removing your coat because of the merciless heat. My point was that the police will not arrest people CCing with the permission of the land owner on private property.

The fact is that allowing CC is a CONCESSION and EXCEPTION to the normal safety rules. But I can assure you that if you try that at almost any other competition it will not be allowed. Run over to Quantico or Fort Belvior, or as was pointed out, the NRA range, or Camp Perry and you will see the rule enforced very strictly. These guys are trying to be polite.

People who take this OC or nothing approach are just as bad as the CC or nothing people.

These guys invited you to bring your defense weapon and carry it CC. This is no different than if someone invited you to a range at their home and said they did not want you to OC around the property. My point was that I do not understand why people make such a big deal out of not being allowed to OC for a few hours under special circumstances. If is really that important to you to OC then don't come to the match, but don't make comments on here that may be considered derogatory to the people who have extended this invitation or they might not be so gracious in the future.

No slam intended, just saying.
No offense taken. I didn't mean for it to sound like I wasn't happy with CC, it's just that since I currently lack a VA CHP (for another 3 months) I just don't want to do anything illegal. I've been told that CC with the owners permission and no CHP is legal, that it's illegal, or that I need written permission. I've yet to see any cite on the matter. Again, I just don't want to do anything illegal. You're correct that people will be wearing heavy coats anyways :cool::)
 

Hawkflyer

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nova wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
nova wrote:
...SNIP
Two things aren't necessarily correct here. You say that there shouldn't be any loaded firearms wondering around so no OC. You then say that CC is fine. Negative comments regarding the no OC rule should be expected, this is a website for Open Carry, afterall :).

And just because it is private property does not mean you can CC with no permit. You still must have a CHP, with few exceptions. OC isn't always about political statements, it's also done for comfort and other times it is required by law (like in my case)

I'll still might come out and watch, and I'll respect their no-OC policy since it is their property and I'm a guest.

Well of course you need permission to CC on private property that is not your own, however I think that permission is included in the statement that "CC is OK" at this range. It is predicted to be in the 20's tomorrow. Usually this would mean people wear a jacket for comfort so It is not like you will be removing your coat because of the merciless heat. My point was that the police will not arrest people CCing with the permission of the land owner on private property.

The fact is that allowing CC is a CONCESSION and EXCEPTION to the normal safety rules. But I can assure you that if you try that at almost any other competition it will not be allowed. Run over to Quantico or Fort Belvior, or as was pointed out, the NRA range, or Camp Perry and you will see the rule enforced very strictly. These guys are trying to be polite.

People who take this OC or nothing approach are just as bad as the CC or nothing people.

These guys invited you to bring your defense weapon and carry it CC. This is no different than if someone invited you to a range at their home and said they did not want you to OC around the property. My point was that I do not understand why people make such a big deal out of not being allowed to OC for a few hours under special circumstances. If is really that important to you to OC then don't come to the match, but don't make comments on here that may be considered derogatory to the people who have extended this invitation or they might not be so gracious in the future.

No slam intended, just saying.
No offense taken. I didn't mean for it to sound like I wasn't happy with CC, it's just that since I currently lack a VA CHP (for another 3 months) I just don't want to do anything illegal. I've been told that CC with the owners permission and no CHP is legal, that it's illegal, or that I need written permission. I've yet to see any cite on the matter. Again, I just don't want to do anything illegal. You're correct that people will be wearing heavy coats anyways :cool::)

SSSSSS.... Be wary, wary, quiet and nobody will ever know.... Maybe we will even see some wabbits...:lol:

I understand your concerns and I am not a lawyer. But the law in Virginia is designed so that is an act is not specifically prohibited then it is legal. In 18.2-308 O. says -

O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

If you take the inverse of that language it would read that "the possession of a concealed handgun is allowed with the permission of the landowner." Now most people infer that this would mean only if you have a permit. But in other places the law is clear that a land owner may conceal WITHOUT a permit in the "cartilage" of his property. So taken together it would seem that a landowner could give permission for a person to CC on their property and I see nothing in Virginia law that says otherwise. After all Concealed is concealed.

But read the fine print forst for your self. I saw a sign posted on a gate in West Virginia that applies here.

"It's your Ass"

But again I am not a lawyer, your milage may vary, you accept internet advice as being of the value you paid, may cause diarrhea, vomiting, warts, burning rashes, plague, bruising, arrest, death by gunshot and other unspecified outcomes. Consult your physician.
 

altajava

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Hawkflyer wrote:
People who take this OC or nothing approach are just as bad as the CC or nothing people.

No slam intended, just saying.



I never stated I would not attend because of no OC. I did sayit could be overlooked and I said that because I noticed they allow CC. Thiswould be one of the few places I would go and be comfortable leaving a firearm in an unattended vehicle.There are after all, places we must go in the the normal course of life andbusiness where we must go unarmed.

I do however have issue with theweather today. The cold I can take. The wind is to much when it's this cold.

As stated, OC is not just a political statement. I find an OWB holster to be far more comfortable because IWB is already full!

Also as stated, we are discussing an event involving firearms on a website dedicated to openlycarried firearms so is anyone really surprised no oc was addressed?

No slam taken, just sayin.

A question for W.E.G. for the next event. Does FRGC allow dogs? I'm looking for places to get him acquainted withthe noise associated with gun fire.Depending onhow it goes, it could be a very short visit.
 

ed

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W.E.G. wrote:
see y'all at 0800

dresswarmly.jpg
18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.
It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device. The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.

(Code 1950, 18.1-364, 18.1-367; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1986, c. 19.)
 

W.E.G.

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I was exercising my bona fides for sure.

Say, did I ever tell you about the guy who was indicted for what he WAS wearing from the neck up, and also for what he WAS NOT wearing from the neck down? :shock:

Anyhow:

Wow man!... it was COLD!

And WINDY.

I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

matchresults.jpg
 

nova

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ed wrote:
W.E.G. wrote:
see y'all at 0800

dresswarmly.jpg
18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.
It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device. The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.

(Code 1950, 18.1-364, 18.1-367; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1986, c. 19.)
Even without the property owner's written permission, he was still engaged in an activity (being outside for prolonged periods of time in the cold and wind) wearing said mask for the wearer's physical safety (protection against physical harm, frostbite, hypothermia). :cool::lol:;)
 
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