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Must conceal or be scorned

thx997303

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
2,712
Location
Lehi, Utah, USA
imported post

Here in San Antonio, they tried that casing method (tossing a ball) I met them there with my OCed XD and politely retrieved their ball.

They left rather quickly.
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
imported post

Have you considered installing surveillance cameras and providing the police with video of them doing drugs on your porch? They have motion sensitive ones and you can access remotely if needed. Other than an installed system simply picking up a camcorder may work. I remember people videotaping the red-light district and recording license plates to deter Johns from visiting prostitutes a while back.

While it is best to be prepared to act, a gun may not be the best method. Yes I know this is an OC site and I OC and think OC prevents crime but from what you describe these are out of control kids that probably never think you would/could shoot them. At that age they are invincible in their minds and have been let get away with so much crap at school and home that they don't think any adult has the balls to hurt them.

If you video tape them they may think twice about "being caught on camera".

I can just see the news report when a few inner city teenagers are gunned down by a big man with a gun and how they will spin it. Parents will come out of the woodwork to say what a nice boy Johnny was taking his little sister to Sunday school each week. Your legal costs, defending yourself and being sued by the families may cost you your life savings or more your freedom.

Don't build up bravado on this site and go out and shoot someone, just defend yourself and your family to the best of your capacity. A little video evidence, including any threats, will help if the @#$% ever hits the fan.

My 2cents.
 

Dr. CCW

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
14
Location
, Massachusetts, USA
imported post

45acpForMe wrote:
Have you considered installing surveillance cameras and providing the police with video of them doing drugs on your porch? They have motion sensitive ones and you can access remotely if needed. Other than an installed system simply picking up a camcorder may work. I remember people videotaping the red-light district and recording license plates to deter Johns from visiting prostitutes a while back.

While it is best to be prepared to act, a gun may not be the best method. Yes I know this is an OC site and I OC and think OC prevents crime but from what you describe these are out of control kids that probably never think you would/could shoot them. At that age they are invincible in their minds and have been let get away with so much crap at school and home that they don't think any adult has the balls to hurt them.

If you video tape them they may think twice about "being caught on camera".

I can just see the news report when a few inner city teenagers are gunned down by a big man with a gun and how they will spin it. Parents will come out of the woodwork to say what a nice boy Johnny was taking his little sister to Sunday school each week. Your legal costs, defending yourself and being sued by the families may cost you your life savings or more your freedom.

Don't build up bravado on this site and go out and shoot someone, just defend yourself and your family to the best of your capacity. A little video evidence, including any threats, will help if the @#$% ever hits the fan.

My 2cents.
That is the reality of the situation, so extreme thought and caution needs to be taken. OC in the home and in the courtyard may be a deterrent. Outside the boundaries of my property, I will maintain theelement of surprise by concealing. They definitely have fear and respect for guns. The guys in town that are known to have them are avoided. I am conditioned that it is for self-defense in life threatening situations only. There must be ability, opportunity and intent to cause serious bodily injury or I'm not drawing.

The camera thing can be a double edge sword. If you're caught, you are targeted. I've done the through the window thing though.
 

Dr. CCW

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
14
Location
, Massachusetts, USA
imported post

kito109654 wrote:
defend your choice to conceal.
It is not my choice/preference. There is a wealth of information and knowledge on this site. I don't believe in separating the OC and CC camps. Unity will further the cause. It is a very differentenvironment here in MA, my friend. I hope to convey that and what needs to be done to adapt as an armed citizen. You OC in my town the cops will take you down at gunpointand you lose your LTC. I was very disappointed to learn that. I just got my LTC and don't want to be the test case to defend OC. I'm sure it has been tried. Given a choice, I would live in an OC state/city and OC. Iwouldfeel safer. I am envious of those who can freely OC.
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
imported post

Well I would think your wife would be very supportive of an form of carry if there were druggies getting high on your front porch. The thought of losing a childs friend should be very secondary.

Why do you live there? I chose to live in a community that is fairly low crime and yes I know any neighborhood can be intruded by criminals on foot or car. To me my family safety comes first and where I live directly impacts that safety. I would seriously consider moving even if it meant changing jobs. If you have family & grandparents nearby you can always visit them rather than live right there.

I understand not everybody has the freedom to move but if you do, consider it. And if you get the chance choose a gun-friendly state! God bless & have a Merry Christmas!
 

Dr. CCW

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
14
Location
, Massachusetts, USA
imported post

45acpForMe wrote:
Why do you live there? I chose to live in a community that is fairly low crime and yes I know any neighborhood can be intruded by criminals on foot or car. To me my family safety comes first and where I live directly impacts that safety. I would seriously consider moving even if it meant changing jobs. If you have family & grandparents nearby you can always visit them rather than live right there.

I understand not everybody has the freedom to move but if you do, consider it. And if you get the chance choose a gun-friendly state! God bless & have a Merry Christmas!

Thank you and God bless you too. My wife and I love the neighborhood and homedespite the incidents. I only once thought of moving.Many have chosen that option. My son is in a great school and he has afull social calender. I have seen things improve and have assisted in that transition. The incidents I mention are the one's I amknowledgable of and I'm sure there are more, but they happened over 8 years. I am positive that many have not even heard of these incidents, but I take note as that is key to reducing risk and survival. Sh!t can happen anywhere. There are more opportunities here than in the "safer" neighborhoods. I own a business and am rooted for now in a central location in the city.

I guessa similar question would be,if you wear a seatbelt because you could crash, then why not stop driving to eliminate that risk?

Merry Christmas!
 

Task Force 16

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,615
Location
Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
imported post

Can't help you much with your neighbors and friends.

Might I suggest you sort of steer your son away from playing cops and robbers and more towards competetive shooting. Maybe set up a little shooting gallery for airsoft or BB rifle. All you need is a canvas dropcloth for a back stop and ammo trap. I think I've seen target sets that look like the old carny shooting gallery systems.

You could also print a small dart board that you guys could play "darts" with using the airsoft/bb gun instead of darts. since the score has to be tallied for darts, this could be a good way to start him learning math skills. Good to be able to throw some edumacation in there when possible. That might get mom off your back. ;)Who knows, she might even get into the act.

I suggested teh air rifle because I don't figure his hand is quite big enough for the pistols yet, but he'll grow into them later.

All of this cometitve shooting would be under your supervision and instruction, of course. After he's done his chores. :)
 

okboomer

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,164
Location
Oklahoma, USA
imported post

Hi Doc, welcome to the group.

Sorry to hear that you live in such a target-rich environment.

One way to change attitudes would be to educate. So, the next time something violent happens in your area, you might try this:

Print up a handful of flyers pointing out the violence in the area and it's proximity to the familys, and the relevant gun laws of MA. You can then proceed in a couple of ways.

1. You could take the flyers to the local quick stops and ask to put them on the counter. I'll bet everyone of those flyers will soon be gone :cool:You can also engage your neighbors if you see them at the store, on neutral territory so to speak, and talk about the latest violence and how dangerous it is for the family at home while you are at work.

or

2.Knock on your neighbor's door and engage the men. This will be a part of your educational campaign (so you are a dastardly, underhanded, gun nut :lol:) As part of your plan, invite the men to accompany you to the local range for a guy's night out where you introduce them to guns as a sport. Sad to say, but you are probably not going to get anywhere with the wives unless you get to the men first. (I say this as a woman who has met too many women who are irrationally afraid of guns.)

or

3. In the spring, throw a BBQ and invite the neighbors so ya'll quit being strangers. This is another dastardly, underhanded gun nut ploy. They get to know you as a real, non-criminal, rational human being. It sounds like you are going to have to sneak up on those folks, but you can do it and preserve your boy's friendships. When the time is right, you will be able to talk to those folks and assure them that all guns are "safed" in your house (meaning, when not on your belt, in a safe position such as a gun safe.)
 

Seniordep2010

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
63
Location
, North Carolina, USA
imported post

I played cops and robbers and cowboys and indians and all that good stuff as a kid. I think I turned out just fine! I had ALOT of toys guns and all my friends would come over and take their pick, then go out in the woods and play. It's totally normal, guys like to watch action movies and do dangerous stuff, watching the movies and stuff wants us to pretend we were rambo, or robocop or what ever.

No one looks at little girls weird when they play with barbies or play with theirs moms high heels and make up thinking "Oh my God, she's going to be a hooker". People shouldn't see little boys playing with toys gun and think "Oh my God, he's going to be a dangerous, gun toting gangster". Playing and pretending is part of a childs nature.

Have a nice day friend. ;)


Edit: Just read all the other posts. I would try to capture some of the thugs on camera and contact the police. If that dones't work just assert your dominance in any/all ways possible and make them fear you (without threatning or harming them).
 

Statesman

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
948
Location
Lexington, Kentucky, USA
imported post

Dr. CCW wrote:
Just some background. I got my first .22 rifle when was 9. We always had guns in my childhoodhome. I played cowboys and indians, cops and robbers when I was a kid. I got an FID card when I turned 18. We've had my old rifes and a Mossberg500 locked up in a gun case in my family house for the last10 years, but never used themas we live in the city now. I'm 42. Irecently got my LTC in MAand bought a S&W 442andran into a big problem with carrying. My 5 year-old son, like most boys I consider normal, likes to play guns and bad guys. He always did even before my LTC. He always provides toy guns for his friends. He bought a $1 toy rifle at the Dollar store for his best friend so he would stop taking away his gun. His friend's mother told my wife no to the gun. She wants the gun play to end. She said it is not normal. Sooooo, my wife, who never grew up around guns andis terrified of them, really lambasted me for open carrying in the house and my son's gun play. She said it teaches my son badbehavior (playing guns and bad guys)whichcauses other parents to avoid my son. Now, if these people knew I carried, that would end many of my son's friendships. Forget about open carrying. I can't even concieve of that and the social consequences for my wife and son. I don't care what people say or think about me personally. The people in my neighborhood wouldnever let their kids near our house if they knew I carried. So, not only do I have to conceal in public, but I also have to conceal from my family. I never thought my son and wife would lose friends as a consequence of my carrying a handgun. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated, just don't suggest I hand out flyers orinfo cards to my neighbors. Remember, I live in MA. You can't change these people.
The truth will set them free. Well, unless they're mindless sheep.

My best advice. Buy a copy of "Innocents Betrayed" from http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com/ and show it to everyone you can in Massachusetts. If this video does not change their mind, NOTHING will ! This video is on youtube also, but nothing is like the DVD experience on your TV.

Granted, it's not about open carry, it's about the human right to self defense, and gun ownership. First thing is first, so they need to be convinced that self defense through gun ownership, is good for humanity.

[align=center]170,000,000
[/align][align=left][font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]That's the number of civilians that have been murdered by their own governments in the 20th century alone. 170,000,000 men, women, and children who were defenseless to protect themselves. 170,000,000 victims of gun control. [/font][/align]
[align=center][font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]You have never seen anything like Innocents Betrayed.
This story has never been told in a documentary film.
[/font]
[/align]​
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]In this powerful documentary produced by Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, you will learn how governments have historically deprived people of firearms ... and then wiped them from the face of the earth.[/font]



http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com/choosefuture.htm
[align=center][font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Choose Your Future: [/font][font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] With Guns and Freedom - or Without[/font][/align] [align=center]- - - - - [/align] [align=center]A statement from Gun Owners of America, KeepandBearArms.com, and others in support of JPFO and Innocents Betrayed[/align] [font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Here's a future where millions understand, right down to gut level, that "gun control" kills. These future citizens know that civilian gun ownership makes the world safer and happier. This is the world we WILL have once a critical mass of people see the life-changing documentary film, Innocents Betrayed:[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]This world isn't perfect, but people are empowered to guard their families from harm. Children play safely under the protection of their mothers and fathers. This future resembles the "simpler, sweeter" times of the past. But it's better because there's so much less tyranny and violence lying ahead.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Criminals never know who might be able to fight back because nobody knows who's carrying guns. There are no government databases of gun owners. Nobody has to ask the government's permission to defend her own life.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Firearms are inexpensive. All the pointless bans and restrictions have been removed and people once again have entered the gun-making and gun-dealing business.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]You can buy your self-defense weapons privately though the mail, without waiting periods or asking permission.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Governments are polite to citizens. Government employees once again understand that they are public servants, not masters. Conniving politicians and gun-prohibitionists are no longer tolerated.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]There's less chance your son or daughter will be used as cannon fodder—sent to die in some country you've never heard of because the people of that country were too feeble to overthrow their own tyrants.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Wives, mothers, sisters, students, and college professors all understand why firearms matter. They understand emotionally, as well as intellectually. Women honor the men who care enough to protect them - and women are better able to protect themselves against rape and abuse.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Genocide never happens again. There are no holocausts, no mass slaughters, no boxcars full of innocents. All around the world, religious and ethnic minorities practice community self-defense.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Millions understand that they—and you—have a right to defend life and liberty. Self-defense once again takes its place as the first law of nature—a respected right of all civilized human beings.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]How does one 58-minute film make all this happen? Because it goes right to the gut. Without arguing about laws, statistics, or legal interpretations, it reaches right in and changes minds and hearts by SHOWING, in the most unforgettable way, what happens to people whose governments impose "reasonable gun control."[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Once they've seen "Innocents," we already know that people from all walks of life, all beliefs, sit stunned and shocked—and then stop believing that "gun control" is good for them. They understand "gun control" is a vicious wolf disguised as a friendly, protective dog.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]It's that simple, that fast. All it takes is getting enough people to see the movie an we eradicate gun hate.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Just show the movie.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] NOW if you prefer, here's a future where millions go on imagining that "gun control" will make them safe. This is a world where Innocents Betrayed never gets outside the realm of Second-Amendment supporters:[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]This future looks (and smells) familiar because we're already on its borders.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Gangs roam the streets, trading in banned weapons—some taken from you by the government— as well as other forbidden goods. Violence in the cities soars.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Women frantically call 911, but stalkers, abusers, and rapists know they have plenty of time to do their deeds then get away before the police arrive.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Corrupt politicians seize more and more power, knowing that submissive and disarmed citizens not only won't resist, but are helplessly dependent on government favors and "protection."[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]You turn in your guns or live in fear of the government jackboot at your door. Turn in your guns and you live in fear anyway.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]You can't even have the simple pleasure of taking your son or daughter out plinking on a Saturday afternoon. Your only access to firearms is at a government-controlled facility, where you're allowed to fire a rationed number of .22 shorts at paper targets. Government officials take careful note of your proficiency. Those who shoot "too much" or "too well" are watched by federal agents.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Sport hunting no longer exists. All game is reserved for government cronies. Or game animals are allowed to overpopulate, destroy the environment, and die of starvation and disease in the name of "environmentalism."[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Detention camps are filled with unpopular minorities, "enemies of government," and people who've violated minor, technical laws.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Soldiers patrol American streets, trained to see everyone as a potential enemy.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Ultimately you may not even have a choice about the job you do, the schooling your children get, or the doctor you go to. Because the government has given itself the right to make all decisions. And you're helpless to resist the utopian schemes of your "leaders," because one act after another of "reasonable gun control" has eaten away not only your gun-rights, but your freedom.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Around the world, millions continue to be slaughtered by their own "protectors" ... their own governments. And suddenly, because you're helpless, even your nice, civilized country is no longer exempt from the ultimate horrors.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]How does the absence of one 58-minute film lead to this horrific chaos? Because no matter how many intellectual or legal arguments gun-rights groups make, people's hearts remain dedicated to the program of the "gun controllers." People remain tragically ignorant of history's #1 lesson: That when self-defense is against the law, anyone, including your own government, can kill you.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]If they see Innocents, they stop. They turn around. They change. They understand the value of firearms in citizens' hands. That fast. No long arguments. No millions of dollars spent. No losing battles. They just get it.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Nothing like Innocents has ever come along before. Because nothing has ever reached "the TV generation" as this film has.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]For the first time, gun owners have it easy. You don't have to go out and buy all kinds of books or magazines. You don't have to memorize hundreds of laws or statistics. You don't have to beg politicians. Just show the film. Then sit back.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Gun-rights groups are putting aside their differences for the moment. ALL of us need to get behind this film. If this film succeeds, then all our jobs become easier. Barriers to freedom fall.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Our goal: For 5 million people to see Innocents Betrayed. If 5 million see it, then show it to their friends, then the "gun control" illusion will topple. People will not only KNOW better. They'll have seen for themselves.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Americans will once again have the common sense glowingly described by Thomas Paine. They'll have the courage of Patrick Henry. And they'll have the tools to ensure that courage and common sense can live into future generations.[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Signed:[/font]
[font="Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] Aaron Zelman, JPFO (http://www.jpfo.org/ib-orders.htm)
Larry Pratt, Gun Owners of America (http://www.gunowners.org/jpfoib.htm)
Angel Shamaya, KeepandBearArms.com (http://keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2822)
Sunni Maravillosa, Free-Market.net (http://www.free-market.net/features/bookofthemonth/giftideas.html)
Claire Wolfe, Clairewolfe.com (http://www.clairewolfe.com)
[/font]
 
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