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Thread: How far away is it

  1. #1
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    how many of you keep your gun at arms reach all the time. out of a 25 hr day what percent of that is spent more then an arms reach awayfrom your gun. I have been thinking about this as i can honestly say my gun is with in an arms reach 24hrs a day. when i sleep it goes under the pillow and when i wake up it goes in its holster which stays with me till i go to sleep that night. i don't consider my self paranoid or abscessed, but i feel 100 percent responsible for it and what to have control over it at all times. I mean i already know my car is not safe so i don't want to keep it in there and who knows about the apartment. so i keep it with me at all times. this is one thing that has been on my mind a lot lately as i am a church going kinda guy and know that it is baned there. people say "you don't need a gun at church" when i say I'm not real happy about the ban. i say well god gave me the right to protect my self and what happens if some one comes in shooting because thy don't like us. Maybe it would work if in order to carry a gun it would have to be concealed and you would have to get permission from the Bishop or Paster. i just some times feel like i am helpless if something would happen. i mean hymn books can only be thrown so hard

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    i would have to say unless i am somewhere such as a federal building ,church ,police station and so forth my sidearm is with me 100% of the time from the moment i am awake till i go to bed and then it is siting next to me within reach

    now granted should i ever come to the point of having children in my home such as my nephew when i am asleep my sidearm is locked away for safety as you know children they are crafty lil ones and can find even the most clever hidden items lol

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    I'm a "church goin' guy" too. I'm taking my CWP class tomorrow so I can CC, yet. I know of a few people in my ward that carry, despite the church ban. They have concerns just like yours. They think it's worth the risk to carry in a banned church and they conealed deep. There are a lot of people out there that really, really hate certain religions and might be crazy enough to do something violent about it. Someone who was listening to this converstaion said that if that happened then God would protect the people in the church. Well, I believe that would happen too. God works through people, people with guns. Does he think a big bolt of lightening is going to take out the BG??

    To the original question - I don't have my CWP yet so now where close to 24hrs.

    ^^ike

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    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    I think we should all ask Miss Ragsdale how safe she felt in the church parking lot.
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    gunsfreak4791 wrote:
    I think we should all ask Miss Ragsdale how safe she felt in the church parking lot.
    that's what is say. People also felt safe in malls and in schools. There is crazy people out there and I'm actualy supprized it has not happend in a church yet because there is people out there that hate the church going people. But I think as times get bad it will become a valad concern. I love the people that say you don't need a gun, god will protect you. But what he won't protect people in malls or other places. If you are a church going person lik my self you beleve god gives free agency to all people even bad people. If I was to get my cfp and deap carry I would need to get another gun as my glock 20 is way to large. But maybe his little brother the glock 29 would work .

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    "God helps those that help themselves" Bolts of Lightning won't do it. When the fit hits the shan, the BG will be dropped by concealed carriers that didn't listen to the church ban. When it happens, the leaders of the church will say the person was asked by God to carry when he/she did. Perhaps they're right, perhaps they're not. Not for me to decide.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    JTknives wrote:
    gunsfreak4791 wrote:
    I think we should all ask Miss Ragsdale how safe she felt in the church parking lot.
    that's what is say. People also felt safe in malls and in schools. There is crazy people out there and I'm actualy supprized it has not happend in a church yet because there is people out there that hate the church going people.
    It has happened in many churches.

    May 31, 2009 - Witchita, Kansas - Suspect Scott Roeder shoots and kills Dr. George Tiller, a late-term abortion doctor, as he entered the foyer of Wichita's Reformation Lutheran Church.

    From http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2009/03/ch-list.html

    March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church, and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed himelf, but survived, when his gun jams.

    Feb. 18, 2009 - Garden Grove, California - A man walks into the internationally known Crystal Cathedral, hands a greeter a note, then kneels in front of a cross and shoots himself in the head, leaving him dead at the altar.

    July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire in a church during a youth performance, killing two people and injuring seven.

    Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a guard.

    May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.

    Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.

    Oct. 2, 2006 - Lancaster County, Pennsylvania - Attack by a gunman who killed five girls and then himself, while not a church, occurs at an Amish school targeted a religious site.

    May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell, 25, was the shooter.

    Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend, later killed himself.

    April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once worked as a security guard.

    March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before taking his own life.

    July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer after charging the officer, following violent behavior.

    Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine-hour standoff.

    Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the church while preparations are being made for service and shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.

    June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two, before killing himself.

    March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.

    May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford stood up in the middle of a revival service and began shooting at his estranged wife, Nicole Radford, killing her and a woman trying to help her.

    Nov. 1, 2000, Kansas City: The wife of a minister fatally shoots her daughter and then herself.

    Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before killing himself.

    April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70, with a history of mental illness, entered the library, killed two people and wounded four others before he was gunned down by police.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    Oh, to answer the OP's question...
    I carry every minute I can. If I'm in my robe, it's in my robe pocket. If I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, it goes with me and sits on the sink next to the toilet. If I get up for breakfast, it goes with me. If I'm watching TV, it sits on the arm of the couch next to me. If I'm at the computer, it's on the desk in front of me.

    My employer says I cannot carry in the building, so it's locked inside of my car in the parking lot. I don't like it, but I like my job.

    The law says I cannot carry in church, so it's also locked in my car there. Other than that, it's with me all the time I'm legally allowed.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Remember that it is only an infraction to carry in church.

  10. #10
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    I thought it was a misdemeanor? Either way, the church's policy is to remind the member not to carry and only involve the law in case the person continuously disregards the policy. Either way, I DO NOT blame someone for refusing to carry in an LDS church for fear of losing their right to carry concealed. I won't blame them at all.

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    Its either on my belt or within arms distance length while i am sleeping (Never liked the idea of keeping it under the pillow. I can foresee WAY to much going wrong..) The only time its nowhere near me is when i am in the shower. So, i can honestly say, i am only ever apart from it once in the morning, and once and night for roughly 15 minute intervals.

    I don't got to the post office or to court regularly. So i didn't count these trips as they are as infrequent as less than once a year, such as with the post office. Court is what, once every 5 years? j/k

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    UtahJarhead wrote:
    I thought it was a misdemeanor?
    Nope. An infraction, and the law specifically states that a single violation is not grounds for taking your CFP.

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    my firearm is with-in my reach 100% unless i am in uniform. and i am in uniform about 10 hours a day right now...now come august i will only be in uniform once or twice a week for about 4 hours while i fly my apache.

  14. #14
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Ugh, I've been in uniform 13 hours a day at least for the past year and couple months.

    I do not get to carry much.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    swillden wrote:
    UtahJarhead wrote:
    I thought it was a misdemeanor?
    Nope. An infraction, and the law specifically states that a single violation is not grounds for taking your CFP.
    Cite? :P

    76-10-530. Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence -- Notice -- Penalty.
    (1) A person, including a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, after notice has been given as provided in Subsection (2) that firearms are prohibited, may not knowingly and intentionally:
    (a) transport a firearm into:
    (i) a house of worship; or
    (ii) a private residence; or
    (b) while in possession of a firearm, enter or remain in:
    (i) a house of worship; or
    (ii) a private residence.
    (2) Notice that firearms are prohibited may be given by:
    (a) personal communication to the actor by:
    (i) the church or organization operating the house of worship;
    (ii) the owner, lessee, or person with lawful right of possession of the private residence; or
    (iii) a person with authority to act for the person or entity in Subsections (2)(a)(i) and (ii);
    (b) posting of signs reasonably likely to come to the attention of persons entering the house of worship or private residence;
    (c) announcement, by a person with authority to act for the church or organization operating the house of worship, in a regular congregational meeting in the house of worship;
    (d) publication in a bulletin, newsletter, worship program, or similar document generally circulated or available to the members of the congregation regularly meeting in the house of worship; or
    (e) publication:
    (i) in a newspaper of general circulation in the county in which the house of worship is located or the church or organization operating the house of worship has its principal office in this state; and
    (ii) as required in Section 45-1-101.
    (3) A church or organization operating a house of worship and giving notice that firearms are prohibited may:
    (a) revoke the notice, with or without supersedure, by giving further notice in any manner provided in Subsection (2); and
    (b) provide or allow exceptions to the prohibition as the church or organization considers advisable.
    (4) (a) (i) Within 30 days of giving or revoking any notice pursuant to Subsection (2)(c), (d), or (e), a church or organization operating a house of worship shall notify the division on a form and in a manner as the division shall prescribe.
    (ii) The division shall post on its website a list of the churches and organizations operating houses of worship who have given notice under Subsection (4)(a)(i).
    (b) Any notice given pursuant to Subsection (2)(c), (d), or (e) shall remain in effect until revoked or for a period of one year from the date the notice was originally given, whichever occurs first.
    (5) Nothing in this section permits an owner who has granted the lawful right of possession to a renter or lessee to restrict the renter or lessee from lawfully possessing a firearm in the residence.
    (6) A violation of this section is an infraction.


    53-5-704. Division duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor -- Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.
    (1) (a) The division or its designated agent shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless during the 60-day period the division finds proof that the applicant is not of good character.
    (b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.
    (2) (a) An applicant satisfactorily demonstrates good character if the applicant:
    (i) has not been convicted of a felony;
    (ii) has not been convicted of a crime of violence;
    (iii) has not been convicted of an offense involving the use of alcohol;
    (iv) has not been convicted of an offense involving the unlawful use of narcotics or other controlled substances;
    (v) has not been convicted of an offense involving moral turpitude;
    (vi) has not been convicted of an offense involving domestic violence;
    (vii) has not been adjudicated by a state or federal court as mentally incompetent, unless the adjudication has been withdrawn or reversed; and
    (viii) is qualified to purchase and possess a firearm pursuant to Section 76-10-503 and federal law.
    (b) In assessing good character under Subsection (2)(a), the licensing authority shall consider mitigating circumstances.
    (3) (a) The division may deny, suspend, or revoke a concealed firearm permit if it has reasonable cause to believe that the applicant has been or is a danger to self or others as demonstrated by evidence, including:
    (i) past pattern of behavior involving unlawful violence or threats of unlawful violence;
    (ii) past participation in incidents involving unlawful violence or threats of unlawful violence; or
    (iii) conviction of an offense in violation of Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons.
    (b) The division may not deny, suspend, or revoke a concealed firearm permit solely for a single conviction for an infraction violation of Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons.
    (c) In determining whether the applicant has been or is a danger to self or others, the division may inspect:
    (i) expunged records of arrests and convictions of adults as provided in Section 77-18-15; and
    (ii) juvenile court records as provided in Section 78A-6-209.
    (d) (i) If a person granted a permit under this part has been charged with a crime of violence in any state, the division shall suspend the permit.
    (ii) Upon notice of the acquittal of the person charged, or notice of the charges having been dropped, the division shall immediately reinstate the suspended permit.

    ...
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  16. #16
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    looks like I'll be carrying to church every Sunday from here on out!

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    Thanks for bringing that up. It is within my reach at all times except when I go into a house of worship whether mid week, family party, or on Sunday. To me it's a matter of faith. "Knowing not merely believing what you are doing is in accordance with the will of God". (Lectures on faith, lecture 6). I don't look down on anyone who does carry in those places but it is not for me.
    -banki-

  18. #18
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    There was a man trapped in his house in a flood. He climbed up to the second floor to stay out of the water. A boater came by and said "jump in, ill take you to safety". the man replied "God will save me". The water continued to rise so he climbed up to his roof. Another boater came by and said "jump in ill take you to safety". The man replied "God will save me". The water continued to rise, so he climbed upon his chimney.
    A boater came by and said "jump in ill take you to safety" man replied "God will save me".
    The water continued to rise and eventually it was too much and the man died after being swept away.

    Upon meeting God he asked "God why did you not save me? I have been faithful all of my life. Surely, if anybody deserved it, it was me." God replied " I sent you three boats what more did you want?"
    IMO my Second Amendment is affirmation that my right to bear arms is a gift from God. I'm not going to shun that gift any longer.

  19. #19
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    Carry on brother and we'll see you next month at RR.
    -banki-

  20. #20
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    ichigo wrote:
    Carry on brother and we'll see you next month at RR.
    -banki-
    My wife, kid, and I will be there!

  21. #21
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    ichigo wrote:
    Thanks for bringing that up. It is within my reach at all times except when I go into a house of worship whether mid week, family party, or on Sunday. To me it's a matter of faith. "Knowing not merely believing what you are doing is in accordance with the will of God". (Lectures on faith, lecture 6). I don't look down on anyone who does carry in those places but it is not for me.
    This is my approach to the question as well. But I will make an exception if I feel prompted.

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    When I am out and about during the day or at work it is close at hand. When I am home it is locked up, because of my young sons. I have been thinking about getting another "lock-box" for each level in the home.

    As for Church it is locked in my car, and I have a knife & OC PS with me, plus the lethal hymm book and triple-combo are close at hand. We have a US Marshall in the Bishopric hopefully he is carry every week.

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    76-10-530. Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence -- Notice -- Penalty.
    ...
    (6) A violation of this section is an infraction.
    So, am I reading this right? I could get fined $750 if convicted of carrying at church?

    76-3-205. Infraction conviction -- Fine, forfeiture, and disqualification.
    (1) A person convicted of an infraction may not be imprisoned but may be subject to a fine, forfeiture, and disqualification, or any combination.
    (2) Whenever a person is convicted of an infraction and no punishment is specified, the person may be fined as for a class C misdemeanor.
    76-3-301. Fines of persons.
    (1) A person convicted of an offense may be sentenced to pay a fine, not exceeding:
    (a) $10,000 for a felony conviction of the first degree or second degree;
    (b) $5,000 for a felony conviction of the third degree;
    (c) $2,500 for a class A misdemeanor conviction;
    (d) $1,000 for a class B misdemeanor conviction;
    (e) $750 for a class C misdemeanor conviction or infraction conviction; and
    (f) any greater amounts specifically authorized by statute.
    (2) This section does not apply to a corporation, association, partnership, government, or governmental instrumentality.
    I know I can't lose my CFP for one conviction, but I wonder what other forfeiture or disqualification are possible.


  24. #24
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    manithree wrote:
    So, am I reading this right? I could get fined $750 if convicted of carrying at church?
    I suppose if you found the wrong judge on the wrong day, you could. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Hi... Im new here but have been reading things on this site for quite awhile. I like reading and learning about all things relating to firearms. Mainly because I have ALWAYS loved shooting, ever since I was a kid. Anyway, I have had my CCP for 3 plus years now and was all for it since I first learned that it was available to me. Since then I have been trying to get use to it (carrying), more and more since then. I work construction in heavy dust and other gun unfriendly environments so I havent carried alot during work, but I know for a fact, that I could use a fanny pack and keep my gun pretty clean and still do whatever physical labor that needed to be done without demolishing my gun.
    When I DONT have my gun on me, I find that I often think that I really should have it with me. Maybe I was in a hurry or that I would only be gone to the store or whatever for a few minutes, but I still end up thinking that I should have it on me. On me and "ready". The whole point is to be ready. Its not the 70s anymore when the most that might happen is maybe getting in a fistfight. It amazes me to hear all of the cowardly unfair attacks that happen to innocent people.
    One of my guns is the smallest .380 made and its pretty damn small, so I dont see any reason that I cant come up with a convienient system to make sure that I have AT LEAST some kind of firearm with me. The computer that im on is downstairs and my weapons and ammo are all upstairs on the main level, so Ive even thought while I have been down here "what if all the sudden my door got kicked in and the armed home invaders are between me and my guns" And my family ? Id have to fight like hell and the chances arent in my favor. I have been out spending the day with my son shopping and out and about, armed with a .357 and its still on my hip and I feel a whole lot better downstairs with it on me, than I do unarmed, with all of my firepower upstairs. It shouldnt be that way, but it is. Never can you say " Oh... that will never happen". Look at what just recently happened in Payson ! Yah... the guy had guns, having family home evening thinking that "nothing would happen" Next thing we hear is that his home was invaded and he is murdered. If only he would have had something on him NOW ! There are all kinds of cenarios where you wouldnt expect to need a gun, but nowdays, it seems like those are the most likely places to have something bad happen. It seems like the more I "do" carry, the more I think about it and it kind of becomes habit with time. I think that I need to make an effort to get MORE in the habit and come up with ways to have something withing reach in most all situations.
    Whats so wrong with having a gunbelt, holster and firearm on and nothing else ? I dont have a problem with that. Well...... maybe some fuzzy slippers too.

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