Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Question about bars in restaurants

  1. #1
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    University Place, Washington, USA
    Posts
    573

    Post imported post

    Today, there was an event held in a restaurant. The area that was used included a room that was designated 21 and over, WA LCB signs posted, no minors.

    One of the employees that worked there said that the bar was closed, so the signs did not apply. The bar, was in fact never used to serve alcohol, and there were kids allowed in the room.

    My question is, if the signs are posted, but the bar is closed and an employee says that the signs don't apply at that time, does the law still say that you cannot carry a firearm into that area that is normally 21 and older? Or because they said that the bar was closed, that it would be considered a normal room just like the other areas of the restaurant?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sedro, Washington, USA
    Posts
    533

    Post imported post

    If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,086

    Post imported post

    kito109654 wrote:
    If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.*
    NEGATIVE.

    I wish people would stop posting this!

    Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

    Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.


    Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

    By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,546

    Post imported post

    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.
    NEGATIVE.

    I wish people would stop posting this!

    Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

    Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.


    Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

    By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.
    Not necessarily, if the place is only meant to be posted for a period of time (e.g. "no minors after 10pm), but has the signs posted all the time, the place could be in the okay.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  5. #5
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,086

    Post imported post

    Tawnos wrote:
    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.*
    NEGATIVE.

    I wish people would stop posting this!

    Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

    Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.


    Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

    By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.
    Not necessarily, if the place is only meant to be posted for a period of time (e.g. "no minors after 10pm), but has the signs posted all the time, the place could be in the okay.
    Correct. Dave & Busters is such an example....
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sedro, Washington, USA
    Posts
    533

    Post imported post

    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.
    NEGATIVE.

    I wish people would stop posting this!

    Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

    Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.


    Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

    By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.
    Wow, you jumped into a hissy fit really fast because you thought I was saying one thing when I was saying something else.

    I didn't say if there was a kid inside, I said if kids under 21 were allowed then so is your pistol, which doesn't invalidate the law at all. Many of those signs do not apply until a certain time at night.

    Chill pill, bro.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sedro, Washington, USA
    Posts
    533

    Post imported post

    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.
    NEGATIVE.

    I wish people would stop posting this!

    Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

    Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.


    Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

    By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.


    I didn't say if there was a kid inside, I said if kids under 21 were [legally]allowed
    then so is your pistol, which doesn't invalidate the law at all. Many of those signs do not apply until a certain time at night.


    Edit: I do believe I stand corrected.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    581

    Post imported post

    OK gang, what does the law say?

    9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.

    IAALBIAAFTDPASNIPHCBCALA
    Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. (Groucho Marx)

  9. #9
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    University Place, Washington, USA
    Posts
    573

    Post imported post

    Lammo wrote:
    OK gang, what does the law say?

    9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.
    This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?

  10. #10
    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    581

    Post imported post

    swatspyder wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    OK gang, what does the law say?

    9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.
    This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?
    Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them! :P


    IAALBIAAFTDPASNIPHCBCALA
    Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. (Groucho Marx)

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chandler, AZ/Federal Way, WA, ,
    Posts
    536

    Post imported post

    Lammo wrote:
    swatspyder wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    OK gang, what does the law say?

    9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.
    This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?
    Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them! :P

    As a prosecutor you should know whether or not you would charge him though, correct? Would you?

  12. #12
    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    581

    Post imported post

    Kildars wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    swatspyder wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    OK gang, what does the law say?

    9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.
    This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?
    Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them! :P

    As a prosecutor you should know whether or not you would charge him though, correct? Would you?
    Maybe, maybe not (how's that for a lawyer's answer ) As with most everything in the criminal justice system it all depends on the circumstances. I have never been into picking wings off of flies so, if the bar really was closed I probably would not charge him. If there were some factor that made it necessary to charge him I would most likely negotiate a continuance for dismissal or a stipulated order of continuance - - stay out of trouble for a year and the case goes away. If the required to be posted signs weren't posted, definitely not.

    IAALBIAAFTDPASNIPHCBCALA
    Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. (Groucho Marx)

  13. #13
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    University Place, Washington, USA
    Posts
    573

    Post imported post

    Lammo wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    swatspyder wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    OK gang, what does the law say?

    9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.
    This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?
    Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them! :P

    As a prosecutor you should know whether or not you would charge him though, correct? Would you?
    Maybe, maybe not (how's that for a lawyer's answer ) As with most everything in the criminal justice system it all depends on the circumstances. I have never been into picking wings off of flies so, if the bar really was closed I probably would not charge him. If there were some factor that made it necessary to charge him I would most likely negotiate a continuance for dismissal or a stipulated order of continuance - - stay out of trouble for a year and the case goes away. If the required to be posted signs weren't posted, definitely not.
    lol, my mistake. :? I guess my question has been answered, more or less.

    But with the bar being closed, would the LCB consider that to be non-operational hours? Is there anything about an area becoming 21 and over during operational hours for the bar?

    (1) Except as otherwise provided by RCW 66.44.316, 66.44.350, and 66.24.590, it shall be a misdemeanor: (a) To serve or allow to remain in any area classified by the board as off-limits to any person under the age of twenty-one years;
    So would the employee be charged with a misdemeanor for allowing the kids to be in that area?


  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Not Here Anymore
    Posts
    346

    Post imported post

    You know, we had our OC get-together in just such an establishment. At the door of the Quarterback, was posted, the sign "no firearms, per 9.41.300 (1)(d)." But, at the same time, we knew that 300 stated: no firearms in areas off-limits to persons under 21. There was also a story(I'm too tired to search for it)here about a bowling alley that was 21+ after 10pm, with a response from the LCB saying that <21 ok guns okay, >21 only no guns allowed. In spite of the fact that there was indeed a sign at the door.

    Bottom line: if they want to throw you out of an establishment, quoting 300, tell them that they have to first throw out all those under 21. But, however, they can still throw you out just to throw you out, no RCW required.
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    43

    Post imported post

    Is the point of the RCW that guns are prohibited if minors are prohibited by the WSLCB, or guns are prohibited if minors are prohibited by the establishment? I ask because, there is a movie theater in the area that serves alcoholic beverages and food. It is restricted to anyone under 21. I am not sure, but I believe it is a policy of the theater to restrict minors, not the WSLCB. Isn't there something about the ratio of alcohol to food sold that determines a restricted area?

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    rickomatic wrote:
    Is the point of the RCW that guns are prohibited if minors are prohibited by the WSLCB, or guns are prohibited if minors are prohibited by the establishment? I ask because, there is a movie theater in the area that serves alcoholic beverages and food. It is restricted to anyone under 21. I am not sure, but I believe it is a policy of the theater to restrict minors, not the WSLCB. Isn't there something about the ratio of alcohol to food sold that determines a restricted area?
    9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sedro, Washington, USA
    Posts
    533

    Post imported post

    kito109654 wrote:
    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.
    NEGATIVE.

    I wish people would stop posting this!

    Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

    Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.


    Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

    By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.

    Ooops double post.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chandler, AZ/Federal Way, WA, ,
    Posts
    536

    Post imported post

    Lammo wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    swatspyder wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    OK gang, what does the law say?

    9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.
    This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?
    Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them! :P

    As a prosecutor you should know whether or not you would charge him though, correct? Would you?
    Maybe, maybe not (how's that for a lawyer's answer ) As with most everything in the criminal justice system it all depends on the circumstances. I have never been into picking wings off of flies so, if the bar really was closed I probably would not charge him. If there were some factor that made it necessary to charge him I would most likely negotiate a continuance for dismissal or a stipulated order of continuance - - stay out of trouble for a year and the case goes away. If the required to be posted signs weren't posted, definitely not.
    Such a lawyer answer!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •