Question about bars in restaurants

swatspyder · Dec 19, 2009

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Today, there was an event held in a restaurant. The area that was used included a room that was designated 21 and over, WA LCB signs posted, no minors.

One of the employees that worked there said that the bar was closed, so the signs did not apply. The bar, was in fact never used to serve alcohol, and there were kids allowed in the room.

My question is, if the signs are posted, but the bar is closed and an employee says that the signs don't apply at that time, does the law still say that you cannot carry a firearm into that area that is normally 21 and older? Or because they said that the bar was closed, that it would be considered a normal room just like the other areas of the restaurant?

kito109654 · Dec 19, 2009

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If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.

TechnoWeenie · Dec 19, 2009

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kito109654 wrote:

If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.

NEGATIVE.

I wish people would stop posting this!

Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.

Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.

Tawnos · Dec 19, 2009

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TechnoWeenie wrote:

kito109654 wrote:

If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.

Click to expand...

NEGATIVE.

I wish people would stop posting this!

Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.

Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.

Not necessarily, if the place is only meant to be posted for a period of time (e.g. "no minors after 10pm), but has the signs posted all the time, the place could be in the okay.

TechnoWeenie · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

Tawnos wrote:

TechnoWeenie wrote:

kito109654 wrote:

If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.

Click to expand...

NEGATIVE.

I wish people would stop posting this!

Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.

Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily, if the place is only meant to be posted for a period of time (e.g. "no minors after 10pm), but has the signs posted all the time, the place could be in the okay.

Correct. Dave & Busters is such an example....

kito109654 · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

TechnoWeenie wrote:

kito109654 wrote:

If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.

Click to expand...

NEGATIVE.

I wish people would stop posting this!

Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.

Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.

Wow, you jumped into a hissy fit really fast because you thought I was saying one thing when I was saying something else.

I didn't say if there was a kid inside, I said if kids under 21 were allowed then so is your pistol, which doesn't invalidate the law at all. Many of those signs do not apply until a certain time at night.

Chill pill, bro.

kito109654 · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

TechnoWeenie wrote:

kito109654 wrote:

If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.

Click to expand...

NEGATIVE.

I wish people would stop posting this!

Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.

Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.

I didn't say if there was a kid inside, I said if kids under 21 were [legally]allowed
then so is your pistol, which doesn't invalidate the law at all. Many of those signs do not apply until a certain time at night.

Edit: I do believe I stand corrected.

Lammo · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

OK gang, what does the law say?

9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.

swatspyder · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

Lammo wrote:

OK gang, what does the law say?

9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.

This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?

Lammo · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

swatspyder wrote:

Lammo wrote:

OK gang, what does the law say?

9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.

Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?

Now I'm insulted.

I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them!

Kildars · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

Lammo wrote:

swatspyder wrote:

Lammo wrote:

OK gang, what does the law say?

9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.

Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?

Click to expand...

Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them!

As a prosecutor you should know whether or not you would charge him though, correct? Would you?

Lammo · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

Kildars wrote:

Lammo wrote:

swatspyder wrote:

Lammo wrote:

OK gang, what does the law say?

9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.

Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?

Click to expand...

Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them!

Click to expand...

As a prosecutor you should know whether or not you would charge him though, correct? Would you?

Maybe, maybe not (how's that for a lawyer's answer

) As with most everything in the criminal justice system it all depends on the circumstances. I have never been into picking wings off of flies so, if the bar really was closed I probably would not charge him. If there were some factor that made it necessary to charge him I would most likely negotiate a continuance for dismissal or a stipulated order of continuance - - stay out of trouble for a year and the case goes away. If the required to be posted signs weren't posted, definitely not.

swatspyder · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

Lammo wrote:

Kildars wrote:

Lammo wrote:

swatspyder wrote:

Lammo wrote:

OK gang, what does the law say?

9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.

Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?

Click to expand...

Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them!

Click to expand...

As a prosecutor you should know whether or not you would charge him though, correct? Would you?

Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not (how's that for a lawyer's answer ) As with most everything in the criminal justice system it all depends on the circumstances. I have never been into picking wings off of flies so, if the bar really was closed I probably would not charge him. If there were some factor that made it necessary to charge him I would most likely negotiate a continuance for dismissal or a stipulated order of continuance - - stay out of trouble for a year and the case goes away. If the required to be posted signs weren't posted, definitely not.

lol, my mistake. :? I guess my question has been answered, more or less.

But with the bar being closed, would the LCB consider that to be non-operational hours? Is there anything about an area becoming 21 and over during operational hours for the bar?

(1) Except as otherwise provided by RCW 66.44.316, 66.44.350, and 66.24.590, it shall be a misdemeanor: (a) To serve or allow to remain in any area classified by the board as off-limits to any person under the age of twenty-one years;

So would the employee be charged with a misdemeanor for allowing the kids to be in that area?

tyguy808 · Dec 19, 2009

imported post

You know, we had our OC get-together in just such an establishment. At the door of the Quarterback, was posted, the sign "no firearms, per 9.41.300 (1)(d)." But, at the same time, we knew that 300 stated: no firearms in areas off-limits to persons under 21. There was also a story(I'm too tired to search for it)here about a bowling alley that was 21+ after 10pm, with a response from the LCB saying that <21 ok guns okay, >21 only no guns allowed. In spite of the fact that there was indeed a sign at the door.

Bottom line: if they want to throw you out of an establishment, quoting 300, tell them that they have to first throw out all those under 21. But, however, they can still throw you out just to throw you out, no RCW required.

rickomatic · Dec 20, 2009

imported post

Is the point of the RCW that guns are prohibited if minors are prohibited by the WSLCB, or guns are prohibited if minors are prohibited by the establishment? I ask because, there is a movie theater in the area that serves alcoholic beverages and food. It is restricted to anyone under 21. I am not sure, but I believe it is a policy of the theater to restrict minors, not the WSLCB. Isn't there something about the ratio of alcohol to food sold that determines a restricted area?

joeroket · Dec 20, 2009

imported post

rickomatic wrote:

Is the point of the RCW that guns are prohibited if minors are prohibited by the WSLCB, or guns are prohibited if minors are prohibited by the establishment? I ask because, there is a movie theater in the area that serves alcoholic beverages and food. It is restricted to anyone under 21. I am not sure, but I believe it is a policy of the theater to restrict minors, not the WSLCB. Isn't there something about the ratio of alcohol to food sold that determines a restricted area?

9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age

kito109654 · Dec 20, 2009

imported post

kito109654 wrote:

TechnoWeenie wrote:

kito109654 wrote:

If kids under 21 are allowed in then so is your pistol.

Click to expand...

NEGATIVE.

I wish people would stop posting this!

Just because CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE LAW..

Essentially, by allowing minors in an area posted no minors, they're breaking the law, and by carrying a firearm in that area, YOU are breaking the law too.

Just because minors are there does NOT mean the area is NOT restricted to minors.

By your logic, I can go into a BAR, and if there's a kid in there it's ok to carry a gun. NO! BOTH the guy who allowed the kid in AND the guy who has the gun are in trouble.

Click to expand...

Ooops double post.

Kildars · Dec 20, 2009

imported post

Lammo wrote:

Kildars wrote:

Lammo wrote:

swatspyder wrote:

Lammo wrote:

OK gang, what does the law say?

9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

I have been all through RCW 66 on alcoholic beverage control and WAC 314 on the liquor control board. I cannot find anything that says a "minors prohibited" area becomes a "minors ok" area just because the bar is closed and thus firearms would always be prohibited in those areas.

Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. But do we have a lawyer on the board that can interpret the RCWs?

Click to expand...

Now I'm insulted. I AM A LAWYER!!!!!! (23 years licensed, 22 1/2 years Deputy County Prosecutor). That said, being a lawyer doesn't always mean you can decipher the RCWs. Heck, it doesn't even mean you can always find them!

Click to expand...

As a prosecutor you should know whether or not you would charge him though, correct? Would you?

Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not (how's that for a lawyer's answer ) As with most everything in the criminal justice system it all depends on the circumstances. I have never been into picking wings off of flies so, if the bar really was closed I probably would not charge him. If there were some factor that made it necessary to charge him I would most likely negotiate a continuance for dismissal or a stipulated order of continuance - - stay out of trouble for a year and the case goes away. If the required to be posted signs weren't posted, definitely not.

Such a lawyer answer!

Question about bars in restaurants

swatspyder

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kito109654

Regular Member

TechnoWeenie

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Tawnos

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TechnoWeenie

Regular Member

kito109654

Regular Member

kito109654

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Lammo

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swatspyder

Regular Member

Lammo

Regular Member

Kildars

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Lammo

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swatspyder

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tyguy808

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rickomatic

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joeroket

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kito109654

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Kildars

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