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Thread: Dog encounter on a hike today

  1. #1
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    Let me start out by saying that if something as simple as this got my heart racing the way it did, I can't even imagine what it would be like to be dealing with a human instead of a dog...

    Anywho, I was out on the trail to Thompson Peak today. Great hike (holy s&&& it was steep towards the end!) and all went well. Until about a mile from the end on my way back out.

    I was coming up a hill and looked up to see a pretty good sized dog at the top. I had enough time to notice that it had tags hanging from a collar, so was able to immediately rule out stray and wild animal, which almost set me at ease. Unfortunately, the dog (looked to be a doberman mix of some type) noticed me and began growling/barking. No owner in sight. A few seconds later the dog made some false charges in my direction at which point my hand went to my H&K. JUST as it was about to come out of the holster, the owner appeared at the top of the hill on a mountain bike and managed to get the dog back under voice control and to back off.

    Owner apologized immediately and all was well, but that's probably because he never noticed I was carrying.

    In that short time, I was amazed at how something so minor could pump that much adrenaline into the bloodstream. I've never even been charged at by a dog before in my life, but even while armed it was an experience to remember.

    Just another reason why I carry EVERYWHERE I can.

    On a related note, why the hell do some dog owners think it's okay for them to let their dogs off leash in public places? I mean, it's not like every hiking trail, preserve, forest, etc. doesn't have signs up reminding people that dogs must always be on a leash. That's as much for the protection of other people as the dog/owner. That poor dog, really through no fault of its own, was only about 1-2 seconds away from being introduced to a .40 (or 14). All because some owner can't follow simple, basic rules.

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    Here in Yavapai County all the dog owners that I know take their dog to the forest roads while keeping the dog in sight but just let the dog run. I keep mine in sight and many times I have all 5 of my dogs running at once.

    A dog is like allot of people. They can sense fear. Very few will attack if your not scared. But I look at the forest roads different then i'd look at a trail I stay on the forest roads to avoid running into people. I'm way more on guard when I see a group of people then I am when I see and animals

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    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    Thoreau wrote:
    Let me start out by saying that if something as simple as this got my heart racing the way it did, I can't even imagine what it would be like to be dealing with a human instead of a dog...

    Anywho, I was out on the trail to Thompson Peak today. Great hike (holy s&&& it was steep towards the end!) and all went well. Until about a mile from the end on my way back out.

    I was coming up a hill and looked up to see a pretty good sized dog at the top. I had enough time to notice that it had tags hanging from a collar, so was able to immediately rule out stray and wild animal, which almost set me at ease. Unfortunately, the dog (looked to be a doberman mix of some type) noticed me and began growling/barking. No owner in sight. A few seconds later the dog made some false charges in my direction at which point my hand went to my H&K. JUST as it was about to come out of the holster, the owner appeared at the top of the hill on a mountain bike and managed to get the dog back under voice control and to back off.

    Owner apologized immediately and all was well, but that's probably because he never noticed I was carrying.

    In that short time, I was amazed at how something so minor could pump that much adrenaline into the bloodstream. I've never even been charged at by a dog before in my life, but even while armed it was an experience to remember.

    Just another reason why I carry EVERYWHERE I can.

    On a related note, why the hell do some dog owners think it's okay for them to let their dogs off leash in public places? I mean, it's not like every hiking trail, preserve, forest, etc. doesn't have signs up reminding people that dogs must always be on a leash. That's as much for the protection of other people as the dog/owner. That poor dog, really through no fault of its own, was only about 1-2 seconds away from being introduced to a .40 (or 14). All because some owner can't follow simple, basic rules.
    My dog is completely off leash trained. I don't want to own a dog that has to be tied up all the time, he enjoys his freedom. That being said, yes there are a lot of people who have no business letting their dog off the leash, but do so anyways. I don't know about the leash laws there, but having a dog off the leash isn't stupid or ignorant at all if the dog is trained. Glad you didn't have to shoot the dog though, that wouldn't have been a good day.

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    Hendu024 wrote:
    Thoreau wrote:
    Let me start out by saying that if something as simple as this got my heart racing the way it did, I can't even imagine what it would be like to be dealing with a human instead of a dog...

    Anywho, I was out on the trail to Thompson Peak today. Great hike (holy s&&& it was steep towards the end!) and all went well. Until about a mile from the end on my way back out.

    I was coming up a hill and looked up to see a pretty good sized dog at the top. I had enough time to notice that it had tags hanging from a collar, so was able to immediately rule out stray and wild animal, which almost set me at ease. Unfortunately, the dog (looked to be a doberman mix of some type) noticed me and began growling/barking. No owner in sight. A few seconds later the dog made some false charges in my direction at which point my hand went to my H&K. JUST as it was about to come out of the holster, the owner appeared at the top of the hill on a mountain bike and managed to get the dog back under voice control and to back off.

    Owner apologized immediately and all was well, but that's probably because he never noticed I was carrying.

    In that short time, I was amazed at how something so minor could pump that much adrenaline into the bloodstream. I've never even been charged at by a dog before in my life, but even while armed it was an experience to remember.

    Just another reason why I carry EVERYWHERE I can.

    On a related note, why the hell do some dog owners think it's okay for them to let their dogs off leash in public places? I mean, it's not like every hiking trail, preserve, forest, etc. doesn't have signs up reminding people that dogs must always be on a leash. That's as much for the protection of other people as the dog/owner. That poor dog, really through no fault of its own, was only about 1-2 seconds away from being introduced to a .40 (or 14). All because some owner can't follow simple, basic rules.
    My dog is completely off leash trained. I don't want to own a dog that has to be tied up all the time, he enjoys his freedom. That being said, yes there are a lot of people who have no business letting their dog off the leash, but do so anyways. I don't know about the leash laws there, but having a dog off the leash isn't stupid or ignorant at all if the dog is trained. Glad you didn't have to shoot the dog though, that wouldn't have been a good day.
    Your dog is completely off leash trained. Good. Just remember, though, that if you go hiking in an area that requires them to be on a leash you are violating the law -- and if for some reason your dog goes out of control and gets shot, that you're the one at fault.

    I was on the "receiving end" of an out-of-control "off leash trained" dog once -- many, many years ago. Result: dead dog, and nearly dead dog owner (who, as might be expected, went ballistic after I shot the dog). Not a good day, I will agree.

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    Glad your situation turned out OK. Good 'training' experience.

    Bear spray first, weak hand, boolits second withstrong hand if necessary. It's kept me from nailing a dogtwice in my AO. Bear spray (15% OC) really Fubars a dog.

    Secondly, I ALWAYS walk with a stick of some sort. A good whop on the head will do it, as well as being aggressive towards a dog that even thinks it's going to get a piece of you.

    One or even two dogs don't worry me, but a pack would. While that would be quite scary, I have not encountered such.

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    Your post reminds me of an unwanted and memorable encounter, of all places, at my wife's grandparents ranch/farm. Granted, I'd never been there before, and she had not seen them in 15 yrs (another story). They knew we were coming, knew when we were coming...AND....when we got there, got out of our truck...I'm in the lead and my wife and daughter are right behind me. Out of no where, a large German shepherd appears, barking, hackles raised, head down (no tail wag), moving to within 8 feet of me. And I'm thinking there's nothing but grass around me, no sticks, (no gun), how do I protect my family?

    After 60-90 seconds of this the owner (her grandfather) comes out and calls off the dog...and says...."oh he's blind, sorry, he does that all the time" I was about to blow my top at this guy I'd never met....he never warned us on the phone about his dog, let alone keep him tethered or enclosed until we arrived.

    Bad experience, OK outcome...don't want to be there again without a weapon.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Thoreau wrote:
    Let me start out by saying that if something as simple as this got my heart racing the way it did, I can't even imagine what it would be like to be dealing with a human instead of a dog...

    Anywho, I was out on the trail to Thompson Peak today. Great hike (holy s&&& it was steep towards the end!) and all went well. Until about a mile from the end on my way back out.

    I was coming up a hill and looked up to see a pretty good sized dog at the top. I had enough time to notice that it had tags hanging from a collar, so was able to immediately rule out stray and wild animal, which almost set me at ease. Unfortunately, the dog (looked to be a doberman mix of some type) noticed me and began growling/barking. No owner in sight. A few seconds later the dog made some false charges in my direction at which point my hand went to my H&K. JUST as it was about to come out of the holster, the owner appeared at the top of the hill on a mountain bike and managed to get the dog back under voice control and to back off.

    Owner apologized immediately and all was well, but that's probably because he never noticed I was carrying.

    In that short time, I was amazed at how something so minor could pump that much adrenaline into the bloodstream. I've never even been charged at by a dog before in my life, but even while armed it was an experience to remember.

    Just another reason why I carry EVERYWHERE I can.

    On a related note, why the hell do some dog owners think it's okay for them to let their dogs off leash in public places? I mean, it's not like every hiking trail, preserve, forest, etc. doesn't have signs up reminding people that dogs must always be on a leash. That's as much for the protection of other people as the dog/owner. That poor dog, really through no fault of its own, was only about 1-2 seconds away from being introduced to a .40 (or 14). All because some owner can't follow simple, basic rules.
    I don't mean to insult you, but I find these 'I saw a dog and went for my gun' threads to be a bit silly. I've been attacked by dogs plenty of times.

    Let them have your weak hand, palm down. It'll hurt, yes. You'll probably bleed. But when the dog bites down, you grab that lower jaw and squeeze. Snap. Especially dogs with a long snout. That lower jaw bone is very weak laterally. Your hand is like a vise squeezing a tin can. It usually hurts bad enough that they let go before it breaks. And they just plain don't even try it again. Especially if YOU refuse to let go of them for a bit... Nothing screws with their head worse than being subdued with what they think is their attack... This theory is effective in many other aspects of life as well.

    Anyway, that's just my way of handling it. Strong hand is free to draw and fire if I still have to, and into a target at arm's length that I have control of and barely have to aim. Also helps in case of multiple targets...

    Leash law now, you say? Maybe your gun should be on a leash? Whatever... Dogs do what dogs do... I give them leeway by learning something else to deal with them. Hammer, all problems look like nails, etc... humans have no excuse for attacking you, they are nails. Feel free to pound. Dogs? They're just dogs, I'll meet them halfway even if with a bit of skin and blood. I can respect them and their behavior far more than a predatory human.

    It helps to know how to speak dog, too. Advance without looking directly at them. Feel free to growl or bark back. I charge them, put them on the defensive. Take their ground from them. This is what they understand, and why they're doing it to you. Give up ground or don't attempt to impose yourself unto them, and they interpret this almost as if you are goading them. The natural human response crosses those wires.

    Since I adopted that, not a single dog that might otherwise have been far more aggressive, has come within 10 feet of me. Even in groups. Learn to advance on the one you're not looking at. If your gun is drawn, you don't fire on the one you are advancing towards. Anything you have been perceived to peruse (are advancing towards) knows instinctively that s/he is now just a distraction and the others come from behind or the side. The one you advance on is never the immediate threat, unless it is alone. That's just how they're wired. Learn it if you have any reason to think you might encounter them...

    Unless you just don't care and would rather shoot them. I'm not passing judgment. I just respect dogs more than people, because people have no excuse for that kind of behavior.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    Thoreau wrote:
    SNIP
    I don't mean to insult you, but I find these 'I saw a dog and went for my gun' threads to be a bit silly. I've been attacked by dogs plenty of times.

    Let them have your weak hand, palm down. It'll hurt, yes. You'll probably bleed. But when the dog bites down, you grab that lower jaw and squeeze. Snap. Especially dogs with a long snout. That lower jaw bone is very weak laterally. Your hand is like a vise squeezing a tin can. It usually hurts bad enough that they let go before it breaks. And they just plain don't even try it again. Especially if YOU refuse to let go of them for a bit... Nothing screws with their head worse than being subdued with what they think is their attack... This theory is effective in many other aspects of life as well.

    Anyway, that's just my way of handling it. Strong hand is free to draw and fire if I still have to, and into a target at arm's length that I have control of and barely have to aim. Also helps in case of multiple targets...

    Leash law now, you say? Maybe your gun should be on a leash? Whatever... Dogs do what dogs do... I give them leeway by learning something else to deal with them. Hammer, all problems look like nails, etc... humans have no excuse for attacking you, they are nails. Feel free to pound. Dogs? They're just dogs, I'll meet them halfway even if with a bit of skin and blood. I can respect them and their behavior far more than a predatory human.

    It helps to know how to speak dog, too. Advance without looking directly at them. Feel free to growl or bark back. I charge them, put them on the defensive. Take their ground from them. This is what they understand, and why they're doing it to you. Give up ground or don't attempt to impose yourself unto them, and they interpret this almost as if you are goading them. The natural human response crosses those wires.

    Since I adopted that, not a single dog that might otherwise have been far more aggressive, has come within 10 feet of me. Even in groups. Learn to advance on the one you're not looking at. If your gun is drawn, you don't fire on the one you are advancing towards. Anything you have been perceived to peruse (are advancing towards) knows instinctively that s/he is now just a distraction and the others come from behind or the side. The one you advance on is never the immediate threat, unless it is alone. That's just how they're wired. Learn it if you have any reason to think you might encounter them...

    Unless you just don't care and would rather shoot them. I'm not passing judgment. I just respect dogs more than people, because people have no excuse for that kind of behavior.
    +1

    Excellent post.

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    "I don't mean to insult you, but I find these 'I saw a dog and went for my gun' threads to be a bit silly. I've been attacked by dogs plenty of times..."

    <snip>

    All well and good, unless you have several small children with you that the dog may or may not try to attack instead of you. I made my choice, and ended the threat.

    Period.

    In my opinion, anyone who is armed is an idiot if they decide to "take a bite" (or any kind of damage) when facing a large, hostile animal.

    YMMV.

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    I have to completely disagree with you, Ixtow.

    I am not going to offer any part of my body up to a dog to bite. The jaws on most big dogs will crush the bones in your hand with their first bite. You will not be doing too much "vise squeezing a tin can" work with your bones broken.

    The bear spray idea is pretty good. I am a dog lover also but as soon as the dog shows the darker side, the primal side, I am not going to play games with it. If he is a threat, charging, he will be shot. If the owner is stupid enough to let their dog run and it acts like that then it is what is due to them. I let my Labs run, I have had some people act hostile towards them. I just grab my dogs and leave. When they run they are always within 200 feet and can be recalled. Sorry for the guys dogs who are not.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Pistol-Packing-Preacher-in-PV wrote:
    "I don't mean to insult you, but I find these 'I saw a dog and went for my gun' threads to be a bit silly. I've been attacked by dogs plenty of times..."

    <snip>

    All well and good, unless you have several small children with you that the dog may or may not try to attack instead of you. I made my choice, and ended the threat.

    Period.

    In my opinion, anyone who is armed is an idiot if they decide to "take a bite" (or any kind of damage) when facing a large, hostile animal.

    YMMV.
    I agree, all well and good, indeed. I dropped 5 when my son was with me. I know I can handle them, but he can't help but show fear and retreat.

    I tend to consider my environment and identify my (potantial) target. Is it one or more? Tags? In a place likely to have an owner nearby? Wild dogs clearly out on their own as I wander through the middle of nowhere? I'm not taking a bite from a dog that might be diseased. Hell no. But somebody's pet letting the freedom go to it's head on a rare outing? Really, who's fault is that? It's a friggin' DOG. I have more respect for a dog that gets out of the house once a month with an owner who has no idea how to speak it's own language to it, than I do for any common thug or even that same dog's owner. But if it is a clear and uncontrollable threat, you're damn right I'd shoot it too! But I'd feel worse about it than shooting a person.

    Now, that yappy damn chihuahua in the bimbo's purse at the mall... That little **** might get popped... ;-)

    I'm just saying that when I encounter a dog, I'm not stupid enough to think it's looking for a fight. It's claiming superiority, and if I let it, yes, it might become dangerous. Be smart enough to 'speak dog' and you probably won't have to shoot it. But if you act scared, stop in your tracks, retreat, etc... You're teasing it. You're inviting it to attack, and it probably will. Maybe YOU don't understand that, and in your own mind you're just defending yourself from the crazy animal. But the TRUTH is that you taunted that dog who was merely testing you like they are wired to by nature. You teased it, goaded it, taunted it into attacking you (whether you are ignorant of that or not doesn't matter, the dog doesn't know any better), and then you killed it... In a group, well, the circumstance changes a bit.

    Would you peel out and do donuts in an intersection in front of the cops? No, that would be stupid. Would you send a written invitation to a narcotics detective that says "Hey, come on over to my place and get high, we've got a big ol' pile of crack here!" No, I doubt you would.

    Dogs can be trained, yes. To a degree. But we, being the (supposedly) more intelligent of the two, are much better off learning to speak their language. Just as in any other situation, your children and family are always safer if you use something other than a gun to prevent a situation from escalating to the point where you need it. People unknowingly goad and tease dogs into attacking them by being ignorant in how they respond to a charging dog that is barking. If you know how to assert dominance, you can walk among wild lions.

    I'm not saying that you shouldn't kill em if the situation is already 'that bad.' But knowing how to respond to them in a way they understand, instead of unintentionally provoking them, is still better. Why escalate when you can do the opposite by getting a clue? Dogs CAN be reasoned with, unlike the guy with a knife who says "gimmie yer dogh!" You just have to speak a language they understand. Dogs are very unlikely to be a real threat, unless you (knowingly or not) choose to provoke them.

    I can walk into the yard of a Pit or (don't laugh, they can be very hostile) Dalmation who's own owner won't even try. Not because I am any kind of macho or have Dundee-like powers of any kind. I just speak their language and diffuse the situation. I think YOUR wife and kids are worth a little self-education, no?

    I think most people who see a dog charging and barking, all the other aggressive indicators, etc, just assume they are about to be attacked. You notice how it slows down and circles when it gets close? Even when you retreat? It's about dominance, ego if you will. It doesn't want to bite you. It's telling you "I'm a big badass, you better respect me." And if you don't say back "Hey, I'm a badass too, you better respect that!" It feels like you're saying "You're not even worth proving anything to, you worthless dickhead!" Does that seem like you're showing respect? Or taunting? The dog expects a response of value-advertisement, in it's mind, to show that you see it has value of it's own. If you don't provide one, you're disrespecting it, and that takes what was merely a challenge to the next level.

    As humans, we subscribe to an "If you have to prove it, then it must be a lie" form of value presentation. And we're right about that. But dogs aren't as smart as we are. We presume that a dog that is charging and barking is simply getting closer so he can make good on a threat. The dog you need to worry about, is the one that ISN'T barking. If he wanted to bite you, he wouldn't be alerting you to his presence! He's advertising. "Look at me, I'm a badass, look how scary I am, you better respect me!"

    If you have big enough balls, try it. If you have to deal with a small group of them, pay attention to which ones are barking and how that changes when you move. You'll notice the ones sneaking in close when you act distracted by the loud one, are quiet, and NOT showing what most people believe are the aggression indicators. I wouldn't advise it, because some dogs are more prone to actually attacking than others, and breed has little to do with it. You just have to learn how they act, and few people make the effort to learn that. A dog accustomed to never being challenged my 1) know he is all bark and no bite 2) may simply have no tolerance for your defiance and tear your arm off! Can you tell the difference? Do you care? Kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out? "Daddy blasts big bloody holes in every dog that barks at him" doesn't seem like a good thing to teach my kids... Especially when I might not be able to get them all. There comes a point where you have to put away the macho and say to yourself "maybe I'm doing this all wrong." Maybe what you're doing is causing the problem, and you now need the gun because you're stuck on stupid?? I'm speaking of absolutes here, and am not accusing you of being a complete dumbass.

    Is there a loud dog in a fenced yard nearby? Go sit down, leaning your back against the fence pole, with your back to it. Stand up, scream unintelligably at it.... If no one is around, jump the fence (trespassing, I know) and chase the little ****. See how the game changes in HIS territory? Yeah, everyone will probably think you're a wacko. Why? Because you're not acting like a sane person. You're acting like a sane dog.

    Anyway, this is long-winded. If you really care about the safety of your family and children, you'll learn how to NOT escalate a dog encounter to the point where you'll need to shoot it. It is almost always a matter of mis-communication. Dogs don't speak human. All the training in the world won't make them as intelligent as we are. Learn to communicate in their language, and you can stop escalating by accident. That is always a good thing.

    Maybe you just don't give a damn and see your gun as the mighty salvation (I doubt you're that guy). Fine, whatever. But I bet my kids are safer with a Dad who knows how to speak dog, than one who pisses dogs off (intentionally or not) and goes for his gun after doing it... Knowledge and communication are always better than bullets. Is it not always better to exhaust all other options? Sure, it's a dog, and you'll probably have a lot less liability for pulling that trigger. But it speaks to the kind of man you are if you're more willing to pull that trigger just because you can get away with it, when a little education could avoid it...

    I'm responding to extremes, and representing the same, to make the intent of my words clearer, not to construct a straw man or to insult or be confrontational.
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    fxdwngflyr wrote:
    I have to completely disagree with you, Ixtow.

    I am not going to offer any part of my body up to a dog to bite. The jaws on most big dogs will crush the bones in your hand with their first bite. You will not be doing too much "vise squeezing a tin can" work with your bones broken.

    The bear spray idea is pretty good. I am a dog lover also but as soon as the dog shows the darker side, the primal side, I am not going to play games with it. If he is a threat, charging, he will be shot. If the owner is stupid enough to let their dog run and it acts like that then it is what is due to them. I let my Labs run, I have had some people act hostile towards them. I just grab my dogs and leave. When they run they are always within 200 feet and can be recalled. Sorry for the guys dogs who are not.
    This is a perfect example of what I mean. You think you know, but you don't. You have a gun, so who cares.

    If you're dumb enough to piss a dog off, letting it bite you in a place of YOUR choosing is better than letting IT choose you neck or heel. If it gives you an advantage to do so, and it can, take it.

    A dog that is charging and barking, NOT in it's own daily territory, is NOT the threat you claim it is. You perceive it incorrectly as such because you are a human. Dogs respond to each other in such a situation by running towards each other. Demonstrating that they both have value to each other. If you don't, you probably will get attacked... And it all seems logical to you. "He ran and barked and attacked me!" but it was actually two different steps, and you provoked it so readily that you, being the supposedly smarter species, didn't even notice it...

    I'm sure you don't give two sh!ts either way... Just blast em...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    I encountered a very similar situation on a residential street here in Hammond, Indiana. While walking for my morning coffee a man opened his front door and out come three Rottweilers running at me. Istopped walking and put my hand on my sw40ve. The dog's owner just stood there looking as if he was waiting to see me bemauled (eaten). At which point I drew and aimed at the lead dog. Only then did hestart screaming for his dogs which thenstopped their charge and went to the back yard. The owner apologised profusely and I went on my way. If I had had no gun he was going to stand there do nothing and allow me to be devoured.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    2ndammendmentbrotha wrote:
    I encountered a very similar situation on a residential street here in Hammond, Indiana. While walking for my morning coffee a man opened his front door and out come three Rottweilers running at me. Istopped walking and put my hand on my sw40ve. The dog's owner just stood there looking as if he was waiting to see me bemauled (eaten). At which point I drew and aimed at the lead dog. Only then did hestart screaming for his dogs which thenstopped their charge and went to the back yard. The owner apologised profusely and I went on my way. If I had had no gun he was going to stand there do nothing and allow me to be devoured.
    Flawed perception. One loud stomping step at them, and they would have lost all the wind in their sails.

    Speak to a dog in a language it understands, and you will assert more control over it than the owner who teaches them to understand any human language.

    If you can't figure that out, then I guess you'll have to shoot them. Way to go superior species...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
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    Look, we live in a "civilization" here. It is against the law in almost every city to have dogs running around in public areas unleashed. Additionally, owners are generally considered liable for any damage their pets do. Also, a dog bite is not something to take lightly. You will either have to get a string of rabies shots or actually find the dog that bit you and have it tested for rabies. One dog bite can permenately injure or even kill you. One dog could lunge for your throat or your genitals causing severe bleeding. I don't care about "perceptions" hereor talking in "dog language." I live in a city and expect a level of civilization. I will not tolerate unleashed animals charging at me who appear to be threatening.

    I had an incident myself one time where indeed three rottweilers were charging at me and I immediately turned arond, took a step forward in the dogs' direction, and pulled a Glock on the animals. No owner was in sight but the dogs immediately stopped, slowly backed away, and then went back the direction they came from. I am guessing that my confidence as well as waving the metal thing (gun) at them was enough to make the dogs realize that I wasn't the wisest target. I guarantee you that if they had not stopped, all three of them would be dead dogs and I would not apologize for it. In fact, I would proably try to sue the owner for "time and trouble" as well as replacement ammo, and also try to get them criminally charged with having a dangerous dog in public. I also don't care if it is some "harmless" yippy dog. Properly trained dogs do not bite strangers in public. A dog that goes around biting people needs to be put down. Any dog that bites me will be put down. I don't have a problem putting the two-legged "animals" down either if they are threatening my life.

    If you can't take care of your pets, don't have them.

    If you can't take care of your children, don't have them.

    Enough handouts. Enough whining. Start taking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.



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    Another point: even non-threatening dogs do not belong unleashed in public streets. They run around barking at pedestrians clearly disturbing the peace and can get in the way of cars creating a traffic hazard. This is why I do not hesitate to call the police when I see dogs running around like this. I have seen the police come with animal control, impound the animals, and issue a citation to the owners. Again, if you can't be responsible for your pets, DON'T HAVE THEM.



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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    protector84 wrote:
    Another point: even non-threatening dogs do not belong unleashed in public streets. They run around barking at pedestrians clearly disturbing the peace and can get in the way of cars creating a traffic hazard. This is why I do not hesitate to call the police when I see dogs running around like this. I have seen the police come with animal control, impound the animals, and issue a citation to the owners. Again, if you can't be responsible for your pets, DON'T HAVE THEM.
    I'm not arguing that. I'm just wondering why so many people would prefer to kill just because they can... Do we not make an effort to avoid pulling the trigger whenever possible? It would take so little to learn another way to handle a dog, yet no one can be bothered with it.

    You guys remind me of Uncle Jimbo on South Park....

    For a community that says "I'd prefer not to use it, but I will if I have to," I'm seeing a footnote of "unless I can get away with it."

    Sh!t happens. Sometimes a dog digs out or otherwise gets out by accident. It isn't being irresponsible, it just happens sometimes. Out on some wilderness trail? let him/her run, oops, another person... Big deal. Do you have to whip it out and blow stuff away just because you wouldn't get prosecuted for murder for doing it? If you know full well that a dog that is barking and running towards you is NOT a threat, then why proceed to shoot it? Or just pretending not to know that makes it a fun thing to do?

    I'm not saying a Dog deserves more Rights than a person. I'm not some idiot PETA freak who would suggest that kind of ridiculous crap. But using the "it was barking and looked mad and was coming at me" as an excuse to start blasting... It makes me wonder how civilized you people really are...

    If you can NOT pull the trigger by doing something as simple as taking a few quick heavy steps towards them and making a little noise, why not? No it wouldn't work on a violent attacker. But pretending that a dog is one just so you have an excuse to blow it away... It's the mark of a small man.

    It's probably just a cooped up pet that got away for a moment of freedom. Sheesh, give it a break, it's not going to kill you no matter how much you react as if it were. OMG! I was so scared! I had to!! It's a friggin' dog! If you were half a human being you'd have at least an idea of how else to deal with them than emptying the magazine....

    If you're of the belief that "I'm a human being and I have no need to make an effort to deal with anything in a way other than shooting it dead" I'm wasting my breath. I just like trying to be a better person. I think most people don't realize how dogs communicate and honestly do believe they are in immediate danger and act accordingly. But once you know that isn't true, maybe, just maybe, being a better person might cross your mind.... Maybe not. Whatever.

    Holy crap, a dog not on a leash! KILL IT! KILL IT! It's barking! Kill it again!

    Sometimes, it's embarrassing to be a human....
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  18. #18
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    ixtow wrote:
    I'm just wondering why so many people would prefer to kill just because they can...
    I don't think anyone is doing that. All I see is people saying that they'd rather kill a dog that is illegally running free and behaving a manner they perceive as threatening rather than take a chance on being injured.

    I just don't see that much benefit in betting life and limb on your understanding of dog psychology.

    I don't want to see a dog shot any more than you do; but if it happens there is one responsible party and it's not the shooter and it's not the dog.
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  19. #19
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    JesseL wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    I'm just wondering why so many people would prefer to kill just because they can...
    I don't think anyone is doing that. All I see is people saying that they'd rather kill a dog that is illegally running free and behaving a manner they perceive as threatening rather than take a chance on being injured.

    I just don't see that much benefit in betting life and limb on your understanding of dog psychology.

    I don't want to see a dog shot any more than you do; but if it happens there is one responsible party and it's not the shooter and it's not the dog.
    Understood. But honestly, you take much bigger risks just driving. Fear of the unknown. I guess it's scary the first time you do it... But it's second nature to me now and have no more problems with 'em.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  20. #20
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    ixtow wrote:
    JesseL wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    I'm just wondering why so many people would prefer to kill just because they can...
    I don't think anyone is doing that. All I see is people saying that they'd rather kill a dog that is illegally running free and behaving a manner they perceive as threatening rather than take a chance on being injured.

    I just don't see that much benefit in betting life and limb on your understanding of dog psychology.

    I don't want to see a dog shot any more than you do; but if it happens there is one responsible party and it's not the shooter and it's not the dog.
    Understood. But honestly, you take much bigger risks just driving. Fear of the unknown. I guess it's scary the first time you do it... But it's second nature to me now and have no more problems with 'em.
    Ixtow:

    I understand your perspective a little better now. I must admit that, at first, you seemed to be one of the PETA goobers that I frequently run into when I'm in a "Nuts'n'Flakes" area of AZ (say, Sedona, Jerome, Flagstaff, Scottsdale, Tucson, etc.). I must admit that I have a low tolerance for such folks.

    That being said, I think I've posted before about encounters I've had with wildlife (especially Mountain Lions). I'm definitely not one to just "shoot without provocation" i.e. dangerous animals (whether domestic or wild), but I will not hesitate when the safety of others is involved. Have I shot to scare off instead of kill? Yes. That would be the preferred way, but it does not necessarily always work.

    In terms of loose dogs -- unless they are feral, the owner is wholly responsible for what happens to them when they are out of his control. Many folks who have moved to Yavapai County have found that out the hard way when their dogs have been shot and killed by ranchers: of course, they call the Sheriff's Office, and an officer (usually an Animal Control Officer) responds. They often demand the citation of, and/or arrest of, the rancher who shot their dog. They are often quite surprised (and not happy, I might add) when *THEY* are cited for failing to control their dog. They find, to their eternal amazement, that the rancher had the right under Arizona law to kill their dog -- as it was threatening his livestock. $130+ dollar lesson for them.

    Many of them moved away shortly thereafter (no great loss as far as I'm concerned).

    I'm still fighting the flu, and so I'm probably rambling on too much again, and I've lost my train of thought, so...

    SHUT UP, MAN!

  21. #21
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    Pistol-Packing-Preacher-in-PV wrote:
    In terms of loose dogs -- unless they are feral, the owner is wholly responsible for what happens to them when they are out of his control. Many folks who have moved to Yavapai County have found that out the hard way when their dogs have been shot and killed by ranchers: of course, they call the Sheriff's Office, and an officer (usually an Animal Control Officer) responds. They often demand the citation of, and/or arrest of, the rancher who shot their dog. They are often quite surprised (and not happy, I might add) when *THEY* are cited for failing to control their dog. They find, to their eternal amazement, that the rancher had the right under Arizona law to kill their dog -- as it was threatening his livestock. $130+ dollar lesson for them.
    I recall seeing a public notice to that effect on the front door of the Skull Valley General Store. I can just imagine the series of calls that prompted that.

    All my animal troubles have been with coyotes and javelina.

    The coyotes like to hang around and eyeball my 3-year-old son. I can chase them off but they don't really take off like they should, they're very nonchalant and indifferent to human hostility and even worse when my wife tries to chase them off. They've been so bold as to take a s___ on my doormat.

    The javelina are worse. They'll root around right outside the house and do their best to chase me off. You've practically got to beat them with a stick to convince them to move on. If I wasn't (barely) inside city limits and my neighbors were a little farther off, I'd be having an Arizona style luau.

    It really seems that some of the local wildlife has gone too long without regular reminders of who lives at the top of the food chain.



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    JesseL wrote:
    Pistol-Packing-Preacher-in-PV wrote:
    In terms of loose dogs -- unless they are feral, the owner is wholly responsible for what happens to them when they are out of his control. Many folks who have moved to Yavapai County have found that out the hard way when their dogs have been shot and killed by ranchers: of course, they call the Sheriff's Office, and an officer (usually an Animal Control Officer) responds. They often demand the citation of, and/or arrest of, the rancher who shot their dog. They are often quite surprised (and not happy, I might add) when *THEY* are cited for failing to control their dog. They find, to their eternal amazement, that the rancher had the right under Arizona law to kill their dog -- as it was threatening his livestock. $130+ dollar lesson for them.
    I recall seeing a public notice to that effect on the front door of the Skull Valley General Store. I can just imagine the series of calls that prompted that.

    All my animal troubles have been with coyotes and javelina.

    The coyotes like to hang around and eyeball my 3-year-old son. I can chase them off but they don't really take off like they should, they're very nonchalant and indifferent to human hostility and even worse when my wife tries to chase them off. They've been so bold as to take a s___ on my doormat.

    The javelina are worse. They'll root around right outside the house and do their best to chase me off. You've practically got to beat them with a stick to convince them to move on. If I wasn't (barely) inside city limits and my neighbors were a little farther off, I'd be having an Arizona style luau.

    It really seems that some of the local wildlife has gone too long without regular reminders of who lives at the top of the food chain.


    Legal to bowhunt?

  23. #23
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    N6ATF wrote:
    Legal to bowhunt?
    Gotta have a tag for the javelina, but I suppose it would work for the 'yotes.

    If I had a tag I could practically bayonet the javelina. Ornery little cusses.
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  24. #24
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    JesseL wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    Legal to bowhunt?
    Gotta have a tag for the javelina, but I suppose it would work for the 'yotes.

    If I had a tag I could practically bayonet the javelina. Ornery little cusses.
    Up here in our neck of the woods, the three S's tend to prevail: shoot, shovel, and shut up about it.

    Great way of dealing with nuisance Javelina. Sometimes there's just too many of them to eat (and I don't really care for Javelina much anyway).

    I remember we used to have Coyotes coming around too close when we lived near Tucson. A shot that nicked the ear of the pack leader took care of that. They never came anywhere near our trailer again. Of course, we were well outside of any city limits (and people were used to hearing gunfire out in the desert in that area -- hunting, as well as a range a few miles away).

    Popping a few 'Yotes with an air rifle might encourage them away. Not so with the Javelina -- claymores might work better.

    Now if I could just sleep.

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    JesseL,

    Harvest, PM me and I have friends enough, we can dispose of any you can Harvest. Were it me, I'd not have to ever shop again, except for veggies and side dishes.

    ixtow,

    I can speak dog, but you are suggesting something foolish. Been There, Done That. No shots fired or dead dogs.....yet. Do Not Give that advice to Novices. I do not say this lightly either, what you are saying WILL get someone hurt. Shooting should be a LAST resort, but pushing the envelope can and will go wrong, somewhere, sometime, but it will. Know your limitations. Flame away if you want.

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