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Cop Pulls Gun on Civilians during a Snowball Fight

Tawnos

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You ever been pelted with snowballs that were a bit too solid? I can't fault the guy for thinking someone was attacking him... He shot nobody, which is, in my opinion, a good thing.
 

kito109654

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Yes, good that no one was shot. But bad that he pulled the gun at all. I was really surprised to see that it was a plainclothes detective. I thought for sure that it must have been a cop in uniform being hassled by kids or something not tar-tar.
 

n16ht5

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never bring a gun to a snowball fight? :lol:



what a failure.
 

dlnwoody

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I can't look at the video due to internet speed sucks in Iraq. I did read the story of what went on. It sounds like the plain cloths officer did not identify him self due to other officers responding with their guns drawn. So here is my question.

One of use are participating in this snowball fight. We are OC or CC'ing (unless it is in Seattle where you do not have the right to carry :) ). We see everything that happened. Are we justified to 1) draw our gun on the person with a gun 2) if he turns towards use are we able to use the force needed to take him down.

I know we don't have the whole story but with what we have. What would you do.
 

FunkTrooper

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I'm pretty sure defending yourself against a police officer (pretending to be a person) is quite illegal.

Wow Tawnos you can't fault the guy? Look, if it was one of us out there CCing we get hit with a snowball and draw our gun but don't fire, we would be arrested on the spot at gun point no matter how hard that snowball was. If we ever want to improve our society we're gonna need to hold police to the same standard as all of us.
 

Dave The Welder

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FunkTrooper wrote:
I'm pretty sure defending yourself against a police officer (pretending to be a person) is quite illegal.

Wow Tawnos you can't fault the guy? Look, if it was one of us out there CCing we get hit with a snowball and draw our gun but don't fire, we would be arrested on the spot at gun point no matter how hard that snowball was. If we ever want to improve our society we're gonna need to hold police to the same standard as all of us.
I completely agree with your second paragraph. We would be arrested in the same senerio. +1 FunkTrooper.

As for your first paragraph, I'm not sure why defending yourself against a police officer is illegal. If you are indeed defending yourself (as defined by the RCWs), then that suggests that the officer is doing something well outside of the law. A blanket statement like "....defending yourself against a police officer is [] illegal" requires a considerable amount of evidence to substantiate.
 

Dave The Welder

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McX wrote:
it's obvious why he pulled, they were using hollow point snow balls!
WHAT!?!? I thought "Cop Killer" snowballs had been banned! There's no other purpose for expanding snowballs than to kill innocent people. Next, you're going to tell me that they had teflon coated "armor piercing" snowballs.
 

MrGray

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Feh.

I think drawing a gun in response to people throwing snowballs is over the top. Drawing a gun because a rowdy crowd of hooligans is throwing snowballs and seems belligerent enough to escalate might not be.

If you throw snowballs at cars, you should be prepared for the fact that, sooner or later, one of the cars you hit is going to stop, and a pissed off person is going to emerge with the intent to beat the living crap out of you. And when that person beats the crap out of you, I will not say you deserved the beating, but I also will have no sympathy for you whatsoever. If you don't want a beating, don't throw snowballs at moving vehicles.

And finally, if you're stupid enough to throw snowballs and chant at a guy who's already drawn his gun, you should expect to get shot. Again, I will not say you deserve it, but if you're such an idiot that you engage in a group snowball fight with a gun wielding cop rather than leave the scene, you're not going to get ANY sympathy from me.
 

wrightme

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From the reports I have read, I have not seen where he identified himself as LE. EVER until confronted by an actual cop. So, he was simply MWAG, but a man who was actually showing, drawing, and brandishing it. And, from at least one person who was there, reportedly acting in "rage."

http://lacymacauley.wordpress.com/
 

Dave The Welder

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MrGray wrote:
Feh.

I think drawing a gun in response to people throwing snowballs is over the top. Drawing a gun because a rowdy crowd of hooligans is throwing snowballs and seems belligerent enough to escalate might not be.

If you throw snowballs at cars, you should be prepared for the fact that, sooner or later, one of the cars you hit is going to stop, and a pissed off person is going to emerge with the intent to beat the living crap out of you. And when that person beats the crap out of you, I will not say you deserved the beating, but I also will have no sympathy for you whatsoever. If you don't want a beating, don't throw snowballs at moving vehicles.

And finally, if you're stupid enough to throw snowballs and chant at a guy who's already drawn his gun, you should expect to get shot. Again, I will not say you deserve it, but if you're such an idiot that you engage in a group snowball fight with a gun wielding cop rather than leave the scene, you're not going to get ANY sympathy from me.
Couldn't agree more. Did they continue to throw snowballs once he had pulled his gun though?
 

sudden valley gunner

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WahWahWah...."I got hit with a snowball....."

Chances are if you show up to a snowball fight and try to get into it with them you will get hit with a snowball. He fails....big time and needs to loose his job we have way too many hot headed cops. There are way too many other ways he could have handled the situation.....hmmmmm like identifying who he was...maybe? Why did he wait until other officers showed up to do this?

He is lucky, that he didn't get shot. And if he did he would have been 100% culpable.
 

MrGray

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Dave The Welder wrote:
Did they continue to throw snowballs once he had pulled his gun though?
[/quote]

From the cell phone video I watched, yes.

Given that the guy did not identify as a cop, these bozos faced two possiblities:
1. The guy is carrying legally, which in DC means he's a LEO. Who is actually stupid enough to throw snowballs at a LEO with gun drawn?

2. The guy is NOT carrying legally. Anyone who is actually stupid enough to taunt and throw snowballs at an enraged criminal wielding a gun is either more stupid than I could have imagined before today, or completely disconnected from reality.

I think this is further evidence that the average IQ of a group of people falls and impulse control diminishes as the group size grows. It's probably the case that none of the snowball throwers was stupid enough to throw a snowball at an enraged person with a gun if they were alone. As a group, they took action to *escalate* by taunting him and throwing snowballs. as far as I could see, NONE of them had enough sense to say "Whoa, he's got a $%^&* gun, I am *out of here*."

Nearly as distressing, a professional LEO let himself get swept up by it.

This is a persuasive argument for staying the hell out of cities where people congregate unless you're prepared. I don't go into the city without reminding myself that one of the thugs who beat the Tuba Man to death is now out on the street and the other two will be out walking around, presumably filled with remorse but still short on impulse control, in about 3 months.

Think on that. Three similar punks could beat you or someone you love to death, just for fun, and 1 of them would be back on the street doing it again less than 9 months after the funeral service.

If that's not a sobering thought, you aren't paying attention.
 

Tomahawk

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MrGray wrote:
I think this is further evidence that the average IQ of a group of people falls and impulse control diminishes as the group size grows. It's probably the case that none of the snowball throwers was stupid enough to throw a snowball at an enraged person with a gun if they were alone. As a group, they took action to *escalate* by taunting him and throwing snowballs. as far as I could see, NONE of them had enough sense to say "Whoa, he's got a $%^&* gun, I am *out of here*."

Nearly as distressing, a professional LEO let himself get swept up by it.


I think there is a lack of maturity across the board in modern society. Cops and private citizens alike. This kind of thing has the same roots as people who road rage because of petty things.
 

gsx1138

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And the lack of accountability rolls right along.

I have a very apt comparison for police officers but I'm sure everyone here will be outraged. And yes I have friends who are cops and they agree with me but feel their hands are tied because of procedural and cultural reasons.
 
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