Cop Pulls Gun on Civilians during a Snowball Fight

FunkTrooper · Dec 20, 2009

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Dave The Welder wrote:

FunkTrooper wrote:

I'm pretty sure defending yourself against a police officer (pretending to be a person) is quite illegal.

Wow Tawnos you can't fault the guy? Look, if it was one of us out there CCing we get hit with a snowball and draw our gun but don't fire, we would be arrested on the spot at gun point no matter how hard that snowball was. If we ever want to improve our society we're gonna need to hold police to the same standard as all of us.

Click to expand...

I completely agree with your second paragraph. We would be arrested in the same senerio. +1 FunkTrooper.

As for your first paragraph, I'm not sure why defending yourself against a police officer is illegal. If you are indeed defending yourself (as defined by the RCWs), then that suggests that the officer is doing something well outside of the law. A blanket statement like "....defending yourself against a police officer is [] illegal" requires a considerable amount of evidence to substantiate.

Your right, I shouldn't have said illegal I should have said stupid If a cop is way out of line to the point I need to discharge my weapon I better hope honorable police investigate, I just think it's unwise to mess with the brotherhood no matter how justifiable.

BORG · Dec 20, 2009

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FunkTrooper wrote:

If we ever want to improve our society we're gonna need to hold police to the same standard as all of us.

I disagree. All cops should be held to a HIGHER standard then the citizens they supposedlyserve and protect.

Manypatrol the streets afraid of their ownshadows and you only need togive themhalf a reason for the business end of the firearm to be pointed in yourdirection.

Many PD's are being militarized beyond recognition and for what? You've got to wonder who they consider is the enemy.

FunkTrooper · Dec 21, 2009

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Well BORG baby steps first.

killchain · Dec 21, 2009

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Just want to point out the obvious:

The video didn't show a snowball being thrown, or a gun being drawn. Just some young guys yelling at a cop about it.

Even though he did admit it.

gogodawgs · Dec 21, 2009

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Correct it didn't. However, this was covered on the Today show this morning with some greater detail. The sowball fight was a viral call and was recorded by many different angles. The MWAG was hit by a snowball and he did go 'ballastic' and he was out of line. The 'police' first denied he removed his handgun from his holster, however, after more video has come forward they have recanted that statement and now are 'investigating'. This offficer should be punished, reprimanded or depending on his record; terminated.

Or perhaps POTUS should invite him over for a beer?!

See the MWAG here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8424836.stm

sudden valley gunner · Dec 21, 2009

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Wow gotta go to BBC news to get a better story.

Instead of leaving he starts taunting the crowd? What an asshat. If that was a crowd of my friends when we were younger he would have been hit by 100 snowballs at that instance.

Then he grabs some random guy, what are they going to charge him with?

gogodawgs · Dec 21, 2009

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Interesting thing is a few years back...

The wife and I were sitting in our living room watching tv on a snowy night and a very loud thud hit our front picture window! It was not a light thud but reverberated through the house. I got up immediately with my Bersa and ran outside to see a group of hooigan kids driving away. My Bersa was not removed from its holster the entire time, rather it stayed in my IWB custom holster. While I was very pissed and did not know the culprits, it passed after I realized that it was just a snowball.

Dave Workman · Dec 21, 2009

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Don't bring a gun to a snowball fight.[/b]

Maybe some cops should not have guns, eh?

(Question: What would happen to a private citizen who pulled a gun in this kind of situation?)

(Another Question: What would happen to an armed citizen who, seeing a guy exit acar with a drawn gun, moving toward a crowd of snowball throwers, fired to stop what might "reasonably" appear to a "reasonable person" to be a deadly attack about to happen?)

This incident has “bad” written all over it.

I can see a “training opportunity” for the police in all of this.

http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m12d21-So-only-cops-should-have-guns-eh-Maybe-not-in-District-of-Columbia

Or try this:

http://tinyurl.com/ybzrmq9

dlnwoody · Dec 21, 2009

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Dave The Welder wrote:

FunkTrooper wrote:

I'm pretty sure defending yourself against a police officer (pretending to be a person) is quite illegal.

Wow Tawnos you can't fault the guy? Look, if it was one of us out there CCing we get hit with a snowball and draw our gun but don't fire, we would be arrested on the spot at gun point no matter how hard that snowball was. If we ever want to improve our society we're gonna need to hold police to the same standard as all of us.

Click to expand...

I completely agree with your second paragraph. We would be arrested in the same senerio. +1 FunkTrooper.

As for your first paragraph, I'm not sure why defending yourself against a police officer is illegal. If you are indeed defending yourself (as defined by the RCWs), then that suggests that the officer is doing something well outside of the law. A blanket statement like "....defending yourself against a police officer is [] illegal" requires a considerable amount of evidence to substantiate.

[/quote]FunkTrooper I was not meaning pulling on a cop. It sounded like he didn't identify him self to the crowd. I would see him as just an ordinary person. With that in mind wouldn't it be legal[/quote]

FunkTrooper · Dec 21, 2009

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I know what you meant dlnwoody but even if you didn't know you'd still end up paying the same price.

HankT · Dec 21, 2009

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Tawnos wrote:

You ever been pelted with snowballs that were a bit too solid? I can't fault the guy for thinking someone was attacking him... He shot nobody, which is, in my opinion, a good thing.

Exactly. I heard a radio report that speculated that someone could have been in the crowd with intent to knock out the officer with a "too solid" snowball, then have the opportunity to take his weapon, then....well, you know the rest.

Actually, we can neither say anything nor judge Officer Baylor because, in the end,we were not there!

gogodawgs · Dec 21, 2009

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HankT wrote:

Exactly. I heard a radio report that speculated that someone could have been in the crowd with intent to knock out the officer with a "too solid" snowball, then have the opportunity to take his weapon, then....well, you know the rest.

Actually, we can neither say anything nor judge Officer Baylor because, in the end,we were not there!

Hank, why can we not say anything? Is free speach dead? Of course not and in this forum we can discuss what we have seen and speculate on many different scenarios.

The jury will not have been there either, are they not allowed to judge?

And I can judge, of course it holds no weight.

amzbrady · Dec 21, 2009

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Just saw King 5 news, and the way they reported it, makes it even worse for the cop, who is now on desk duty. They reported that the first snowballthat caused him to draw his weapon, hit the red hummer. What I thought was funny as hell, is that after he was identified, someone with really good aim, plowed him right in the face after uniformed officers arrived, then the detective lost it and shoved another guy. Awesome stuff, happy holidays and remember, there are only 4 more shopping days to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

HankT · Dec 21, 2009

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gogodawgs wrote:

...in this forum we can discuss what we have seen and speculate on many different scenarios.

Very strong point.

gogodawgs wrote:

The jury will not have been there either, are they not allowed to judge?

Very good point.

gogodawgs wrote:

And I can judge, of course it holds no weight.

Decent point. -2 for underestimating the value of your opinion/judgment (assuming it's a good one).

Tomahawk · Dec 21, 2009

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Maybe you can come up with another postulate, Hank. Something about armed men and snowballs.

Kildars · Dec 21, 2009

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He should be arrested, charged & tried for brandishing just like we would.

joeroket · Dec 21, 2009

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Kildars wrote:

He should be arrested, charged & tried for brandishing just like we would.

Yes he should but unfortunately there are exemptions in most firearm laws that give LEO more room.

Remember also that this is most likely a misdemeanor so it would just be a citation and would more than likely not end his career as an officer.

gogodawgs · Dec 21, 2009

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I do not think he should lose his job, but I do think he should be suspended and lose pay. I also believe that he should have the appropriate mark put on his record (and I mean criminal record).

I have read a great deal about it and he is a long time officer with no significant problems (according to the media).

I believe that the punishment I have endorsed would be very similar to that of a regular member of the public.

HankT · Dec 21, 2009

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Tomahawk wrote:

Maybe you can come up with another postulate, Hank. Something about armed men and snowballs.

What do you think about the incident, T-hawk?

Did Detective Baylor break the law?

If so, what kind of punishment would you endorse?

ChuckUFarley · Dec 21, 2009

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what an ass clown, then did you see him get in the face of that guy with the shield.

:cuss:

Cop Pulls Gun on Civilians during a Snowball Fight

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