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Thread: Gun Free Zones Worthless??

  1. #1
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    I was just looking at
    http://www.ncpc.org/topics/school-sa...e-school-zones

    A survey by the National Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicates that about 135,000 guns are brought into schools every day.
    In California we have a 180 day school year, I assume that is typical nationwide.

    So.. 180 * 135,000 = 24,300,000 guns are brought into schools annually.

    Seems to be a pretty low rate of incidents compared to this number.

    Anyone have any numbers on the actual number of firearms incidents at schools?

  2. #2
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Does that number include armed police on campus?

    At my high school and college, we had at least 2 armed police on campus during school hours.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Strategy

    Establishing policies prohibiting the possession of guns in schools and within a set distance of school buildings helps to secure schools from gun-related violence and crime.
    They recommend establishing 'no weapons' policies in order to keep the children safe at school. Nice strategy. It doesnt seem to be working out too well, particularly for the victims. These public placesare notlimited access and no one is searched for weapons upon entry, and even if entry was limitedand searches were conducted, there is still no assurance that a criminal couldnt bring a gun into the area anyway. To put up signs that prohibit guns does NOTHING but disarm those who want to defend themselves.

    In almost every instance of mass shooting, the incident occured in a gun free zone- an area where weapons are prohibited either by company policy, or State or Federal Statute.

    Citations include, but are not limited to;

    Fort Hood 2009

    13 Dead 30 wounded

    Weapons prohibited outside training

    Northern Illnois University 2008

    5 dead 18 wounded

    Weapons Prohibited

    Virginia Tech 2007

    32 Dead

    Weapons Prohibited

    Westroads Mall, Omaha 2007

    8 Dead

    Weapons Prohibited

    Columbine High School 1999

    12 dead 26 wounded

    Federal Gun Free School Zone


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    Rusty wrote:
    A survey by the National Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicates that about 135,000 guns are brought into schools every day.
    In California we have a 180 day school year, I assume that is typical nationwide.

    So.. 180 * 135,000 = 24,300,000 guns are brought into schools annually.

    Seems to be a pretty low rate of incidents compared to this number.

    Anyone have any numbers on the actual number of firearms incidents at schools?

    http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=1389

    As of 2005, there are over 124K schools in the U.S. So the NCDCP numbers seem possible, IMO. However, I don't know if data360 is including colleges and universities, both public and private, or if the graph is K-12 only.

    ETA: "Gun Free Zones Worthless?"

    Short Answer: Absolutely.


  5. #5
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    Peoplegoing on a killing spreeseem to find them quite useful. I suppose that if you want to be the target of such a spree it could be a useful place to hang out, as well.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    NightOwl wrote:
    Peoplegoing on a killing spreeseem to find them quite useful. I suppose that if you want to be the target of such a spree it could be a useful place to hang out, as well.
    no, actually gun free zones are excellent places for crazy people to kill lots of UNARMED innocent civilians.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Glock34 wrote:
    NightOwl wrote:
    Peoplegoing on a killing spreeseem to find them quite useful. I suppose that if you want to be the target of such a spree it could be a useful place to hang out, as well.
    no, actually gun free zones are excellent places for crazy people to kill lots of UNARMED innocent civilians.
    Isn't that exactly what he just said?

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Glock34 wrote:
    NightOwl wrote:
    PeopleÂ*going on a killing spreeÂ*seem to find them quite useful.Â* I suppose that if you want to be the target of such a spree it could be a useful place to hang out, as well.
    no, actually gun free zones are excellent places for crazy people to kill lots of UNARMED innocent civilians.
    Isn't that exactly what he just said?
    It bears repeating over and over, obviously not to us. This information needs to hit the entire country. Of course you are going to have people come back and say "Well if we got ALL of the guns out of people's hands and stop the manufacture and import of firearms then it wouldn't be a problem." Then you can ask them if getting stabbed to death, bludgeoned to death, or blown up is a better way for mass murderers and thugs to carry out there bidding. What are they going to do next? Take away our right to have aluminum baseball bats, kitchen knives will be replaced with plastic cutlery, and household and lawn care chemicals must be purchased with a permit? I don't think so. And lets not forget the criminals that obtain their firearms through illegal means anyway.

    Yeah, thats it, lets go back to the days of hackin' and slashing' everyone. And let the only people with guns be law enforcement and the military.

    I've said it once and I'll say it again:
    To Hell with not being armed.

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    I think those number from teh CDC are grossly exagerated. Unless they're including school sanctioned cometetive shooting team firearms. Here, the Perry County Highschool and Middle school have Sport trap shooting teams. They compete all over the state angainst other schools.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Glock34 wrote:
    NightOwl wrote:
    Peoplegoing on a killing spreeseem to find them quite useful. I suppose that if you want to be the target of such a spree it could be a useful place to hang out, as well.
    no, actually gun free zones are excellent places for crazy people to kill lots of UNARMED innocent civilians.
    it is, i replied to the wrong thread ..sorry
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  11. #11
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    Any place with "NO GUNS" signs are just asking for trouble. For example, the BB&T in Leesburg, VA. robbed twice in a couple weeks, and located near city hall? That has always sounded like MD where only BGs run around with guns.

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    The "No gun zones are just as much saying "Only sheeple allowed"
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    KansasMustang wrote:
    The "No gun zones are just as much saying "Only sheeple allowed"
    "My name is Gun Free Zone. Only criminals are armed. Prepare to die."

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    Regular Member Ironbar's Avatar
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    In Oregon, state law prohibits open carry on school (K - 12) campuses. However, if you have a CHL, you can legally carry.

    And I do. Every time I drop off my daughter, and every time I pick her up, I am armed. I'll have it no other way.

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    Ironbar, it's still against federal law, just fyi.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    Ironbar, it's still against federal law, just fyi.
    Nope. Go back and read the federal law. If you have a state-issued liscence you are not subject to the GFSZ.

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Gun free zones are not worthless!!!!!

    If you are athugyou can make a killing.:shock:
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    NightOwl wrote:
    Ironbar, it's still against federal law, just fyi.
    Nope. Go back and read the federal law. If you have a state-issued liscence you are not subject to the GFSZ.
    Digging for that would be...challanging (on dial up atm), but if you have a link I'd love to read it. Does it need to be a state issued license for the state that you're in? As in, say, a Utah non-resident ccw being sufficient in CA (obviously not sufficient for state law, but just curious).

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    NightOwl wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    NightOwl wrote:
    Ironbar, it's still against federal law, just fyi.
    Nope. Go back and read the federal law. If you have a state-issued liscence you are not subject to the GFSZ.
    Digging for that would be...challanging (on dial up atm), but if you have a link I'd love to read it. Does it need to be a state issued license for the state that you're in? As in, say, a Utah non-resident ccw being sufficient in CA (obviously not sufficient for state law, but just curious).
    Here you go, from wikipedia with a source linked at the bottom. Emphasis in red bold mine:


    In general, the GFSZ Act of 1990 added two paragraphs in a new subsection (q) to Section 922 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code:


    (1) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    Exception: This does not include possession of a firearm on private property that is not part of school grounds or possession of a loaded firearm by an individual who is licensed to do so by the State. (i.e. a concealed carry, weapon, or firearm permit).

    (2) It shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm at a place that the person knows is a school zone.

    Exception: This does not apply to the discharge of a firearm on private property not part of school grounds; as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by a participating individual; by an individual contracted by a school in a school zone; or by a law enforcement officer acting in official capacity.
    Source: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c101:S.3266: (Bill S.3266, see under title 17, sec. 1702).

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    NightOwl wrote:
    Digging for that would be...challanging (on dial up atm), but if you have a link I'd love to read it. Does it need to be a state issued license for the state that you're in? As in, say, a Utah non-resident ccw being sufficient in CA (obviously not sufficient for state law, but just curious).
    18U.S.C. § 922q

    (2)

    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—

    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    NightOwl wrote:
    Ironbar, it's still against federal law, just fyi.
    Nope. Go back and read the federal law. If you have a state-issued liscence you are not subject to the GFSZ.
    Digging for that would be...challanging (on dial up atm), but if you have a link I'd love to read it. Does it need to be a state issued license for the state that you're in? As in, say, a Utah non-resident ccw being sufficient in CA (obviously not sufficient for state law, but just curious).
    If your were to visit TN, with a carry permit from another state that isrecognized by TN, you would be subject to the gunlaws of TN while carrying here. The 1000 ft rule re schools does not apply to permit holders. You may enter a school parking lot to drop or pickup students, but you may not get out while armed orhandle your handgun while in the vehicle. You may not enter a school with a firearm or armed unless authorized by the school to do so.

  22. #22
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I'm only 27 yet in the 9th grade my high school still had a shooting team as part of JROTC. We even had our own range, on the school grounds.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Awesome, ty sir.

    Shame it has to be a permit from the same state. Ah well.

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    Of course they are worthless. How is some stupid no weapons allowed sign going to keep you safe?

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    Why is the CDC conducting firearms surveys in the first place? Do these shooters carry swine flu or something?

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