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Do not patronise while armed.

stainless1911

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I thought it would be helpful to make a thread where we could list those businesses which do not allow their patrons to be armed. I got the idea from MCRGO. It can be difficult to get them to post a business on their site, so I thought we should have our own.

A few suggestions: Location, or address. The date. Did you attempt to explain Did they have a PFZ sign? Did they agree or refuse to post one? Did they call the police? Were they polite, fearful, hostile, apologetic, etc? Did they request you to conceal? Did they ask you to leave it in the car? Did they ask you to not return? If the police were involved, how did they act? The more information the better.

I'll go first.

Walter P. Chrysler Museum.One Chrysler Drive
Auburn Hills, MI 48326-2778 USA


12 20 2009 I was able to explain the OC vs private property law. There was no signage posted. There was no agreement or refusal to post a PFZ sign. They did call the police, and their security department. They were nervous, but polite. They requested that I leave, and that I did not return while armed. I left before the police arrived. The Auburn Hills police department called me at my home that afternoon. They were polite, and professional. They were respectful of my rights to both OC and CC. Theyverified that everything was within the law, and that both parties have been informed of and are in agreement with each others rights.
 

autosurgeon

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All I will say is lists are not a good idea IMOP... they have a tendancy to be fluid and that can lead to problems... also it could be used against a person that was known to post here but never looked at the list... It could be said that they were given notice by said list to not carry in a certain place.

That is why we instead post a list of places you can carry!
 

stainless1911

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autosurgeon wrote:
It could be said that they were given notice by said list to not carry in a certain place.
I appreciate the caution, bit I do remember reading a specific law which requires a posted sign, and the letters on the sign must be at least one inch in height. This list wouldnt be admissable.
 

SpringerXDacp

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stainless1911 wrote:
autosurgeon wrote:
It could be said that they were given notice by said list to not carry in a certain place.
I appreciate the caution, bit I do remember reading a specific law which requires a posted sign, and the letters on the sign must be at least one inch in height. This list wouldnt be admissable.

You can find it in MCL 28.425o

(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

This is the only requirement by law in Michigan to post signs that I'm aware of.
 

SpringerXDacp

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Welcome to OCDO Stainless1911

Posting a list of no carry businesses is a bad idea-nothing good really comes from it. It's best to put your time and energy into finding/posting businesses who are OC friendly.
 

Michigander

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SpringerXDacp wrote:
Posting a list of no carry businesses is a bad idea-nothing good really comes from it. It's best to put your time and energy into finding/posting businesses who are OC friendly.
I've never considered it to be too important to make a list one way or another. Making sure you don't go anywhere illegal or posted, and having a good demeanor, as in dressing decently and being overly friendly, will go a very long way to let people know you're not going to start trouble, and avoid silly confrontations.

If you do these simple things, and above all else mind the laws, you won't have much trouble.
 

lil_freak_66

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the steak n shake in lansing.

manager even called corporate to confirm policy,or so he said.

no customers can carry,concealed or otherwise.
 

autosurgeon

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lil_freak_66 wrote:
the steak n shake in lansing.

manager even called corporate to confirm policy,or so he said.

no customers can carry,concealed or otherwise.
I will be perfectly frank they could all go belly up and I couldn't care... I got food poisoning from two diff ones was sick for 24 hours and then weak as a mouse for three days... wouldn't go in one if it was the last place to get a meal...

I however doubt that there is such a policy as unless they post it then it is useless... as many people will CC and they will never be the wiser...
 

Bronson

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lil_freak_66 wrote:
the steak n shake in lansing.

manager even called corporate to confirm policy,or so he said.

no customers can carry,concealed or otherwise.


I've OCed in the Battle Creek Steak & Shake and the one on Westnedge in Kalamazoo on several occasions without incident. I think the trick is to be a good tipper then the wait staff won't care if you're carrying a bazooka:p

And to bring it back on topic I think this list would be redundant since MCRGO already has one that is established, easy to access, and is widely known about in the gun owning community. I've added places to their list and it just takes a bit for them to confirm whatever it is they confirm. They'll send you an email when it goes up on the list.

Bronson
 

mikestilly

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I saw the post and felt like I have to throw in my 2 cents. I feel having the Do Not Patronize List is a good thing. I'd rather know in advance that certain places are anti's and I'm sure many others do as well. Not only that it's better to find out places like Jerrod's which a very large sign no firearms allowed on the premises. It's good to keep things positive but it's also good to know where to avoid. It's quite the pain to find out after the fact. (can also help prevent an unnecessary confrontation)

Also measures can be taken to verify the validity of peoples submissions. A simple call to the business owner or corporate entity can solve and confusion.
 

autosurgeon

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Mike here is why I disagree. When you call a store and ask if they allow OC most of the time they will say NO as they know nothing about it and may even think it is unlawful. So making a list based on that reaction is NOT wise.

I agree with Bronson that one list is plenty. If enough people request it I am sure MOC could put a link to the MCRGO list up on the website. MCRGO usually has a member in the area verify either from previous experience or by going to the place and physically double checking the policy IE sign or other notice.

So to recap.

1. calling places to ask their policy will almost always get a NO.

2. One list is enough.

3. The reason for the time delay on the MCRGO list is for verification so that it is not hearsay.

4. MOC could link to the MCRGO list if enough members want that.
 

stainless1911

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Bronson wrote:
And to bring it back on topic I think this list would be redundant since MCRGO already has one
it just takes a bit for them to confirm whatever it is they confirm. They'll send you an email when it goes up on the list.

Bronson

There are tworeasons I started this thread, because When I had a problem at a best buy (with police involvement), I submitted the incident to mcrgo, and they disregarded it, and secondly, as Mike has pointed out, it is better to avoid an avoidable conflict. We do have to deal with people and LEOs as it is, but lessis more, you know.

Auto suggested a link to the MCRGO list. Here it is, but I have to disagree, I think that the more we as gun owners can be made aware of these places, the bigger impact we can have, and the less problems we will experience. And calling to ask permission first, will almost always get you a NO. People need to see us over and over again before they will be able to distinguish between a responsible law abiding gun owner, and a gun toting thug. The media, hollywood, and the liberals have doner their jobs very well, and it is our job to counter their lies with truth.

http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_no_gun_signs.asp
 

autosurgeon

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The problem is Best Buy is not anti OC or CC you just ran into an uninformed manager. This is better handled on a case by case basis then by making a blanket statement that Best Buy is anti OC or CC.

Also I think it is more productive to complain to corporate first and see if they will take care of it then to put the store on a list and call it good...

NOTE IMOP!
 

Venator

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autosurgeon wrote:
The problem is Best Buy is not anti OC or CC you just ran into an uninformed manager. This is better handled on a case by case basis then by making a blanket statement that Best Buy is anti OC or CC.

Also I think it is more productive to complain to corporate first and see if they will take care of it then to put the store on a list and call it good...

NOTE IMOP!

In fact here it is.

BEST BUY's POLICY

from Customer Contact <CustomerContact@bestbuy.com>
to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
date Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 7:31 PM
subject Best Buy Gun policy - XXXXXXXX
mailed-by
bestbuy.com

Best Buy strives to comply with all applicable law and statues. Best Buy also strives to provide a safe and comfortable shopping environment for all our customers. Best Buy does not ban guns at our retail locations. As a general rule, Best Buy does not post “no guns allowed” signs in our stores and we are not aware of any individual stores that might have posted such a sign.
 

stainless1911

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Best Buy in Auburn Hills (across from Great Lakes Crossing)

I was there this summer, and An Auburn Hills Officer showed up. The management had called them while having the employees quietly try to avoid me. The employee I did speak to actually tried to discourage me from making the purchase. The officer and I both explained to the managers that what I was doing was legal, and the private property laws were explained as well. The manager did not want to put up a PFZ sign, as he probably figured it would drive away customers. However, he still insisted that I leave my gun in the car, permit, or no permit. When I submitted this to mcrgo, they never put it up, basically Best Buy got away with it. To he** with that. There is now a thread for those types as well.

The Auburn Hills police department should be congratsulated. The officer knew the laws well. He was very respectful, polite, and professional. He did not disarm me, he did not put me in cuffs, or anything. This officer respected me, and my rights to OC, and CC. We spoke for a few minutes, and he even told me that I had a nice piece.
 

stainless1911

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Apparently, the brass at Best Buy, are bright enough to realise they shouldn't be posting signs. But if they "prefer to handle it on a case by case basis", this allows them to discriminate against OC without having the consequenses of being portrayed as being anti-gun. Basically, they want to have their cake and eat it too.
 

Venator

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stainless1911 wrote:
Apparently, the brass at Best Buy, are bright enough to realise they shouldn't be posting signs. But if they "prefer to handle it on a case by case basis", this allows them to discriminate against OC without having the consequenses of being portrayed as being anti-gun. Basically, they want to have their cake and eat it too.
You are preaching to choir on that. Walmart is doing the same thing, Last year they said they follow state law, recently they have left it up to management on a case by case basis. They want it both ways.
 
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