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detained in a TN State Park for 2.5 hours nearly arrested because cops don't know definition pistol

midiwall

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
76
Location
Seattleish, Washington, USA
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kwikrnu wrote
I have a binding contract with him for the purchase of a silencer. I have paid my money and now he will not perform the service of helping with the nfa paperwork. I have a clean record and there should be no problems with the transaction. Yesterday he didn't think I was crazy. Something happened for him to change his mind. My name was not mentioned on the news last night, so how did he know it was me who bought the silencer? Connect the dots.

I have only filed a complaint with the Tennessee Department of Consumer Affairs at this point.
No, you do NOT have a "binding contract". The owner can do what he wants to - and NEEDS to - in order to protect his future business, and in this case, his FFL. He has chosen not to complete the sale with you. That's well within his rights.

Tom told me you threatened to call the ATF and "report him"? hahah... that should be fun to watch pan out.

As for "how did he know...", well, I'll bet that at some point he asked you what you were going to put the silencer on, the basis being a possible need for an adapter. Then when you showed up after the news broadcast, it probably doesn't take much to "connect the dots". I'd bet you showed up at the shop in the same camo jacket and skull cap that was reported on the news. Yeup, very short lines between those dots.

I don't think that he wants to be associated with you _at all_. That's a right that he has - just like you have "the right" to carry a Draco in public.
 

RussP

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Sep 2, 2006
Messages
393
Location
Central Virginia
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kwikrnu, consider what you've posted here and elsewhere. That might help you understand the dealer's actions.

You filled out a form which asks about arrests, convictions, stuff like that. You answer, truthfully, "No" to all that. HOWEVER...

In your posts you state you plan on taking certain specific actions which would jeopardize your ability to pass a background check to purchase the silencer.

Yes, the dealer may have read your posts here and elsewhere about the armor piercing ammo, the AK-47 pistol painted todeceive law enforcement into thinking it is an airsoft BB-gun, the confrontation with police and your reaction to that vowing to seek further confrontations acknowledging they might lead to your "detainment". Then you walk into his shop and buy a silencer?

Think about it.
 

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
imported post

midiwall wrote:
kwikrnu wrote
I have a binding contract with him for the purchase of a silencer. I have paid my money and now he will not perform the service of helping with the nfa paperwork. I have a clean record and there should be no problems with the transaction. Yesterday he didn't think I was crazy. Something happened for him to change his mind. My name was not mentioned on the news last night, so how did he know it was me who bought the silencer? Connect the dots.

I have only filed a complaint with the Tennessee Department of Consumer Affairs at this point.
No, you do NOT have a "binding contract". The owner can do what he wants to - and NEEDS to - in order to protect his future business, and in this case, his FFL. He has chosen not to complete the sale with you. That's well within his rights.

Tom told me you threatened to call the ATF and "report him"? hahah... that should be fun to watch pan out.

As for "how did he know...", well, I'll bet that at some point he asked you what you were going to put the silencer on, the basis being a possible need for an adapter. Then when you showed up after the news broadcast, it probably doesn't take much to "connect the dots". I'd bet you showed up at the shop in the same camo jacket and skull cap that was reported on the news. Yeup, very short lines between those dots.

I don't think that he wants to be associated with you _at all_. That's a right that he has - just like you have "the right" to carry a Draco in public.

He already decided to do the transaction. I already paid my money. That is a contract.Iam able topass a background check and the sheriff will sign off.

I nevertold himI would contact the ATF. I wish I had recorded the call.
 

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
imported post

RussP wrote:
In your posts you state you plan on taking certain specific actions which would jeopardize your ability to pass a background check to purchase the silencer.

I have broken no laws and do not plan on breaking any laws. What actions are you refering to?

AP ammo is legal. Open carry of a handgun is legal.

If I don't pass the background check the cleo will not sign off and I won't be able to receive the silencer. So, what is he worried about?
 

midiwall

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
76
Location
Seattleish, Washington, USA
imported post

kwikrnu wrote:
midiwall wrote:
kwikrnu wrote
I have a binding contract with him for the purchase of a silencer. I have paid my money and now he will not perform the service of helping with the nfa paperwork. I have a clean record and there should be no problems with the transaction. Yesterday he didn't think I was crazy. Something happened for him to change his mind. My name was not mentioned on the news last night, so how did he know it was me who bought the silencer? Connect the dots.

I have only filed a complaint with the Tennessee Department of Consumer Affairs at this point.
No, you do NOT have a "binding contract". The owner can do what he wants to - and NEEDS to - in order to protect his future business, and in this case, his FFL. He has chosen not to complete the sale with you. That's well within his rights.

Tom told me you threatened to call the ATF and "report him"? hahah... that should be fun to watch pan out.

As for "how did he know...", well, I'll bet that at some point he asked you what you were going to put the silencer on, the basis being a possible need for an adapter. Then when you showed up after the news broadcast, it probably doesn't take much to "connect the dots". I'd bet you showed up at the shop in the same camo jacket and skull cap that was reported on the news. Yeup, very short lines between those dots.

I don't think that he wants to be associated with you _at all_. That's a right that he has - just like you have "the right" to carry a Draco in public.

He already decided to do the transaction. I already paid my money. That is a contract.Iam able topass a background check and the sheriff will sign off.

I nevertold himI would contact the ATF. I wish I had recorded the call.
You really need to learn some law... You're 37yo? Really?

The shop owner can rescind the contract at any time based on new information coming forth. That new information would be your lake stunt and being splattered all over the news. There's no case here...

Actually.. he can rescind the contract just 'cause he woke up 3 minutes earlier than normal. It makes no matter, he has the "right to refuse service to anyone for any reason".
 

nova

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,149
Location
US
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kwikrnu wrote:
RussP wrote:
In your posts you state you plan on taking certain specific actions which would jeopardize your ability to pass a background check to purchase the silencer.

I have broken no laws and do not plan on breaking any laws. What actions are you refering to?

AP ammo is legal. Open carry of a handgun is legal.

If I don't pass the background check the cleo will not sign off and I won't be able to receive the silencer. So, what is he worried about?
BATF declared 7.62x39 a handgun cartridge due to "handguns" being chambered for it and therefore AP ammo in that caliber is illegal for transfer other than between private citizens.

Just because you "can" do something doesn't mean you should. Carrying AP ammo in a firearm with a painted orange muzzle in itself looks shady, something Bloomberg or Brady would wet their pants over due to the public's response as seen in the news clip.
 

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
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nova wrote:
BATF declared 7.62x39 a handgun cartridge due to "handguns" being chambered for it and therefore AP ammo in that caliber is illegal for transfer other than between private citizens.


So, yes it is legal. I've already researched it.
 

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
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midiwall wrote:
You really need to learn some law... You're 37yo? Really?

The shop owner can rescind the contract at any time based on new information coming forth. That new information would be your lake stunt and being splattered all over the news. There's no case here...

Actually.. he can rescind the contract just 'cause he woke up 3 minutes earlier than normal. It makes no matter, he has the "right to refuse service to anyone for any reason".


However, he did not refuse service as shown by the receipt. He has already accepted my money.
 

midiwall

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
76
Location
Seattleish, Washington, USA
imported post

kwikrnu wrote:
midiwall wrote:
You really need to learn some law... You're 37yo? Really?

The shop owner can rescind the contract at any time based on new information coming forth. That new information would be your lake stunt and being splattered all over the news. There's no case here...

Actually.. he can rescind the contract just 'cause he woke up 3 minutes earlier than normal. It makes no matter, he has the "right to refuse service to anyone for any reason".
However, he did not refuse service as shown by the receipt. He has already accepted my money.
He accepted a deposit, which he is returning because he is rescinding the deal.

If you had paid in full, and he handed you the silencer, then he could not ask for it back. Up until that point, he can do what he wants.

You've made some big noise about calling a lawyer for various things... Have you actually talked to one yet, or are you just blowing hot air while speed-dialing the BBB?
 

nova

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Messages
3,149
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US
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kwikrnu wrote:
nova wrote:
BATF declared 7.62x39 a handgun cartridge due to "handguns" being chambered for it and therefore AP ammo in that caliber is illegal for transfer other than between private citizens.


So, yes it is legal. I've already researched it.
Did you research the differences between what is legally defined as AP and what actually is AP? Most of the stuff advertised as AP is nothing more than ammo with a mild steel core, ammo that was manufactured that way because it was cheaper than using all lead? Unless you find ACTUAL AP 7.62x39 which hasn't been produced in any quantity for several decades, you'll have nothing better than your average lead-core FMJ.

Which in this case I'd say is a good thing.
 

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
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nova wrote:
Did you research the differences between what is legally defined as AP and what actually is AP? Most of the stuff advertised as AP is nothing more than ammo with a mild steel core, ammo that was manufactured that way because it was cheaper than using all lead? Unless you find ACTUAL AP 7.62x39 which hasn't been produced in any quantity for several decades, you'll have nothing better than your average lead-core FMJ.

Which in this case I'd say is a good thing.
But, it is still legal if you can find it.
 

midiwall

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
76
Location
Seattleish, Washington, USA
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kwikrnu wrote:
nova wrote:
Did you research the differences between what is legally defined as AP and what actually is AP? Most of the stuff advertised as AP is nothing more than ammo with a mild steel core, ammo that was manufactured that way because it was cheaper than using all lead? Unless you find ACTUAL AP 7.62x39 which hasn't been produced in any quantity for several decades, you'll have nothing better than your average lead-core FMJ.

Which in this case I'd say is a good thing.
But, it is still legal if you can find it.
Why are you so focused on "yeah but it's legal" when what you're talking about is so stupid?

Walking through a wooded trail, kids, moms, bunny rabbits... And hear comes Mr. Kwikr with his silenced Draco slung on, loaded with 31 rounds of AP.

What about that sounds "sane", or "right", or even "supporting the second amendment"?

You haven't even tried to address my point on KTOG about how the Draco makes a horrible "personal defense" weapon in situations like you're "setting up". And as such, you can't defend a valid reason for you to have that thing out there.... That's REALLY stretching the whole "yeah, but I have a carry permit..." point.


Hell man, even if you're making a stand for the second amendment, you're not talking to the press to get your word out. You're spending your time here re-posting news stories with your side, but that's it. The legislators aren't here - (though maybe they are now, thanks to you) - no one that could even start to understand "your rights" from a pure legal perspective is listening.

The press already has you out as a freak, the local Tennesee authority has you flagged as poster child for gun control. Did you bother to call the news station to correct their information which you claim is wrong? Did you call a local paper and ask if they wanted your side of the incident?

If you're gonna make a claim to be standing on your "rights" then _DO IT_. Right or Wrong or in-between, Mr. AR15man did. He talked to the press. He didn't hide on user forums talking smack about what really happened and how it was his legal right to show up in public armed to the nines.
 

jp49911

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Mar 24, 2009
Messages
172
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Greensboro, ,
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I have no problem with LE investigating something they see as suspicious but when it's clear no law is being broken they should not make up laws and attempt unlawful arrests.

Regardless of all the opinions of using "common sense", no law was broken and they knew it. Then they tried to act beyond the scope of their executive powers and make something up.

I'm glad kwikrnu stood up and called their bluff (they called the manufacturer...yeah I bet).

Ak-47 handgun, camouflage jacket, orange tip, war paint I don't care. If they think it's suspicious, investigate but when all is clear, they need to drop it.

BTW, investigate is what the first ranger did. Investigating doesn't require aiming a shotgun at someone who has demonstrated that they are willing to comply with producing their permit and discuss the legality of the weapon they are carrying.

And all of the "you should carry something normal" or "you shouldn't carry to prove a point" people, he can carry what he wants within the bounds of the law and I don't even want to go down the road of what someones aim should be when carrying.

If someone wanted to carry a gun for the sole purpose of looking hard core (I'm not suggesting that was kwikrnu's intent), that's their right. I would think that is stupid but I would defend their right to do that. It's the same premise of defending freedom of speech even if it's speech you don't agree with.

It seems like a lot of people claim to be pro 2A but only if you exercise your right within the perimeters they prefer. Instead of saying "hey, I wouldn't carry a handgun AK-47 to test the limits of the law but that's your right if you want too" people are bashing with this bravado like "I'm pro 2A/OC but only if you are a middle aged white man, with a conservative haircut, wearing a dress shirt and slacks, carrying 9mm glock in a leather holster and you always walk on the right side of the aisle everywhere you go".
 

kwikrnu

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May 14, 2008
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1,956
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Brentwood, Tennessee
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midiwall wrote:
Why are you so focused on "yeah but it's legal" when what you're talking about is so stupid?

Walking through a wooded trail, kids, moms, bunny rabbits... And hear comes Mr. Kwikr with his silenced Draco slung on, loaded with 31 rounds of AP.

What about that sounds "sane", or "right", or even "supporting the second amendment"?

You haven't even tried to address my point on KTOG about how the Draco makes a horrible "personal defense" weapon in situations like you're "setting up". And as such, you can't defend a valid reason for you to have that thing out there.... That's REALLY stretching the whole "yeah, but I have a carry permit..." point.


Hell man, even if you're making a stand for the second amendment, you're not talking to the press to get your word out. You're spending your time here re-posting news stories with your side, but that's it. The legislators aren't here - (though maybe they are now, thanks to you) - no one that could even start to understand "your rights" from a pure legal perspective is listening.

The press already has you out as a freak, the local Tennesee authority has you flagged as poster child for gun control. Did you bother to call the news station to correct their information which you claim is wrong? Did you call a local paper and ask if they wanted your side of the incident?

If you're gonna make a claim to be standing on your "rights" then _DO IT_. Right or Wrong or in-between, Mr. AR15man did. He talked to the press. He didn't hide on user forums talking smack about what really happened and how it was his legal right to show up in public armed to the nines.

If the person who kept saying AP is illegal would look up the law he would find it is legal as I have said many times.

The draco pistol is legal to carry. I don't tell people they can't carry a hi-point or jennings, or a little belt buckle .22lr. Carry whatever you want as long as it is legal.

I do not need to talk with the press. I think my position is clear. If it isn't illegal then why should I be detained 2.5 hours? Why should I be harrassed for exercising my right to carry?
 

kwikrnu

Banned
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May 14, 2008
Messages
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Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
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midiwall wrote:
Joe Mama wrote:
http://www.saysuncle.com/2009/12/23/not-helping/
"Just search for kwikrnu + banned on Google. Hilarity ensues."
Fun link... :) So TGO outed his name, phone number, address, company name...

Gotta love domain registrations. :)
I've been defamed and libeled on the TGO website. It is a sad state of affairs when the management of that website allows it. David Yancey, the forum administrator, has called me a criminal and implied a personal threat. I hope I do not need to get a restraining order placed on him.
 

fishexam

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Dude, you have not been defamed or libeled at tgo. You only have yourself to blame for everything that has been said about you.
 
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