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detained in a TN State Park for 2.5 hours nearly arrested because cops don't know definition pistol

midiwall

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Dec 22, 2009
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Seattleish, Washington, USA
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kwikrnu wrote:
midiwall wrote:
Why are you so focused on "yeah but it's legal" when what you're talking about is so stupid?

Walking through a wooded trail, kids, moms, bunny rabbits... And hear comes Mr. Kwikr with his silenced Draco slung on, loaded with 31 rounds of AP.

What about that sounds "sane", or "right", or even "supporting the second amendment"?

You haven't even tried to address my point on KTOG about how the Draco makes a horrible "personal defense" weapon in situations like you're "setting up". And as such, you can't defend a valid reason for you to have that thing out there.... That's REALLY stretching the whole "yeah, but I have a carry permit..." point.


Hell man, even if you're making a stand for the second amendment, you're not talking to the press to get your word out. You're spending your time here re-posting news stories with your side, but that's it. The legislators aren't here - (though maybe they are now, thanks to you) - no one that could even start to understand "your rights" from a pure legal perspective is listening.

The press already has you out as a freak, the local Tennesee authority has you flagged as poster child for gun control. Did you bother to call the news station to correct their information which you claim is wrong? Did you call a local paper and ask if they wanted your side of the incident?

If you're gonna make a claim to be standing on your "rights" then _DO IT_. Right or Wrong or in-between, Mr. AR15man did. He talked to the press. He didn't hide on user forums talking smack about what really happened and how it was his legal right to show up in public armed to the nines.

If the person who kept saying AP is illegal would look up the law he would find it is legal as I have said many times.

The draco pistol is legal to carry. I don't tell people they can't carry a hi-point or jennings, or a little belt buckle .22lr. Carry whatever you want as long as it is legal.

I do not need to talk with the press. I think my position is clear. If it isn't illegal then why should I be detained 2.5 hours? Why should I be harrassed for exercising my right to carry?
You're good at ditching the point, but I'm better at driving on it.


Get past "but mommy, it was legal!" and look at the bigger picture.

Before you got banned on KTOG you told me that you carried the Draco as a personal defense weapon to protect your wife and family. The Draco is NOT a good close-up weapon, so _THAT_ becomes part of your "suspicious behavior".

With all the rantings and crying you've done on the forums, it's clear that you're looking for sympathy. Part of the issue here (and "there") is that you're rarely truthful with folks from the beginning. You've asked the same lead-in question on a gajillion forums, but you don't give folks all the facts. I found one blog today where it looks like you're actually starting to get some people on your side, but it's only because you haven't mentioned ALL of the facts - and, they don't know your history.

But, it's not so much about telling the truth ("I have nothing to hide") it's about HOW you tell it and WHEN it comes out.

Head back to the TVA site and show them the picture of the AK that you have posted here, showing the tip - and WHY you painted it. Tell them about your quest for AP rounds, the silencer story, body armor wants, and your threats to do this in Bicentennial Mall.

Telling people that UP FRONT creates a different impression. You have NEVER told any forum (that I've yet found) the whole story in your first post. It's clear that you're purposely leaving out facts and history in order to avoid the confrontation and questions of your motives.

Inevitably that stuff is discovered and then people take another look at what you're asking. Given that you've "hidden facts" up front, then it's human nature to ask "what else is he hiding?". This is _EXACTLY_ the issue with the first ranger on the trail.

Once people start confronting you about the rst of the truth, you take the stand on "yeah, but it's legal". And again, we see a pattern - this is the issue with the NINE LEOs in the parking lot. They confronted you on your motives and the legality of the weapon, and you just stood on "yeah, but it's legal".

Stop doing that. Grow up to your 37 years and understand that LEGAL doesn't always mean SMART. Especially in the hot bed of gun laws.

You're on a collision course to lose your truck tops company and family. And along the way, you're putting a big dent in the fight to keep our right to bear arms. I would suspect that Tennessee lawmakers are looking at your lake stunt, and someone's writing up legislation that's going to make it illegal to carry around the Draco - or possibly ANY handgun.

If that happens you're looking at a state full of people that will be looking for you so that they can thank you personally. And then the rest of them want to actually buy you dinner.
 

midiwall

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76
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Seattleish, Washington, USA
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fishexam wrote:
Dude, you have not been defamed or libeled at tgo. You only have yourself to blame for everything that has been said about you.
Exactly.. Leonard, you and I went through this a couple of pages ago. Put as much research into Libel and Defamation as you claim that you've done for AP ammo and you'll learn a bit.
 

kwikrnu

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Brentwood, Tennessee
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midiwall wrote:
You're good at ditching the point, but I'm better at driving on it.


Get past "but mommy, it was legal!" and look at the bigger picture.

Before you got banned on KTOG you told me that you carried the Draco as a personal defense weapon to protect your wife and family. The Draco is NOT a good close-up weapon, so _THAT_ becomes part of your "suspicious behavior".

With all the rantings and crying you've done on the forums, it's clear that you're looking for sympathy. Part of the issue here (and "there") is that you're rarely truthful with folks from the beginning. You've asked the same lead-in question on a gajillion forums, but you don't give folks all the facts. I found one blog today where it looks like you're actually starting to get some people on your side, but it's only because you haven't mentioned ALL of the facts - and, they don't know your history.

But, it's not so much about telling the truth ("I have nothing to hide") it's about HOW you tell it and WHEN it comes out.

Head back to the TVA site and show them the picture of the AK that you have posted here, showing the tip - and WHY you painted it. Tell them about your quest for AP rounds, the silencer story, body armor wants, and your threats to do this in Bicentennial Mall.

Telling people that UP FRONT creates a different impression. You have NEVER told any forum (that I've yet found) the whole story in your first post. It's clear that you're purposely leaving out facts and history in order to avoid the confrontation and questions of your motives.

Inevitably that stuff is discovered and then people take another look at what you're asking. Given that you've "hidden facts" up front, then it's human nature to ask "what else is he hiding?". This is _EXACTLY_ the issue with the first ranger on the trail.

Once people start confronting you about the rst of the truth, you take the stand on "yeah, but it's legal". And again, we see a pattern - this is the issue with the NINE LEOs in the parking lot. They confronted you on your motives and the legality of the weapon, and you just stood on "yeah, but it's legal".

Stop doing that. Grow up to your 37 years and understand that LEGAL doesn't always mean SMART. Especially in the hot bed of gun laws.

You're on a collision course to lose your truck tops company and family. And along the way, you're putting a big dent in the fight to keep our right to bear arms. I would suspect that Tennessee lawmakers are looking at your lake stunt, and someone's writing up legislation that's going to make it illegal to carry around the Draco - or possibly ANY handgun.

If that happens you're looking at a state full of people that will be looking for you so that they can thank you personally. And then the rest of them want to actually buy you dinner.
I posted a question in I believe every forum except this one. On the KTOG forum I asked if anyone had ever been detained while carrying a kel-tec plr-16.I'm extremely curious to know if anyone has ever been detained a long time for carrying various rifle caliber pistols. These would include ar15 pistols, ak pistols, sig 556 pistols, and the plr-16. However no one ever answers the question. Wouldn't you be interested in knowing? I am. I posted similar questions on many forums and the result was always the same.

I haven't hid anything. I stated the facts concerning the detention as accurately as I remember and have not changed the details. The first ranger saw my permit. The second ranger knew I had a permit when he held me at gun point because he talked by phone to the first ranger. Not only that, but he remembered me from a visit to the park I had made previously where I should him the carry permit upon his demand.

Do a search about AP, or silencers. You're sure to pull up lots of posts I have made on several forums concerning how to obtain these items and their legality. Most of the threads are titled so they are easily found in searches. An example is "What is the best AP round for an ak-47 pistol." How is that hiding anything?

I've hidden nothing. My screen name is used on nearly every forum I frequent.

Cops aren't supposed to hold people on trumped up false charges. I think telling them them, "hey, but it is legal" is appropriate.
 

midiwall

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Seattleish, Washington, USA
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kwikrnu wrote:
I haven't hid anything. I stated the facts concerning the detention as accurately as I remember and have not changed the details. The first ranger saw my permit. The second ranger knew I had a permit when he held me at gun point because he talked by phone to the first ranger. Not only that, but he remembered me from a visit to the park I had made previously where I should him the carry permit upon his demand.
That's simply not true, and you're again avoiding the real issue here.

Truth wise... In all cases that I saw, you didn't disclose the purposeful painting of the barrel until someone asked or otherwise found out about it. The _intent_ with which you did that is relevant to folks deciding who you are and if they want to support you feeling that you were illegally detained.

It also plays into the response of all the officers involved. But you refuse to see that.

And again, the real issue is you being off on a campaign for some purpose that only YOU know. What you've done has served no positive purpose in the world that you live which gives you the legal right to carry the Draco.

I'll again suggest that by this time next year, you won't be able to do that, and it will be your own fault.

You lemme know when you see that then I'll believe that we're getting somewhere in this conversation.
 

kwikrnu

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midiwall wrote:
Truth wise... In all cases that I saw, you didn't disclose the purposeful painting of the barrel until someone asked or otherwise found out about it. The _intent_ with which you did that is relevant to folks deciding who you are and if they want to support you feeling that you were illegally detained.

Why didn't someone start a thread asking why I painted the tip? I probably would have responded.

When I ask a question on a web forum I expect the discussion will be about the thread topic. That is why it was irrelevant.
 

midiwall

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Dec 22, 2009
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Seattleish, Washington, USA
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kwikrnu wrote:
midiwall wrote:
Truth wise... In all cases that I saw, you didn't disclose the purposeful painting of the barrel until someone asked or otherwise found out about it. The _intent_ with which you did that is relevant to folks deciding who you are and if they want to support you feeling that you were illegally detained.
Why didn't someone start a thread asking why I painted the tip? I probably would have responded.
People have asked within the course of your other threads, and yes, you do answer. And that's when people basically bail on even thinking about supporting your cause for "being within a millimeter of the law".


So... when do we start talking about the difference between "The Law" and "Doing Something Just Plain Dumb"?
 

Superlite27

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God's Country, Missouri
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kwikrnu wrote:


Why didn't someone start a thread asking why I painted the tip? I probably would have responded.


I noticeyou say "I probably would have responded".

This insinuates that you no longer will. And since you haven't, and are now insinuating that you won't, this leads to the idea that you never intended to in the first place.

Let's just see where this rabbit hole leads.

I'm your Huckleberry.
 

kwikrnu

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Superlite27 wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:


Why didn't someone start a thread asking why I painted the tip? I probably would have responded.


I noticeyou say "I probably would have responded".

This insinuates that you no longer will. And since you haven't, and are now insinuating that you won't, this leads to the idea that you never intended to in the first place.

Let's just see where this rabbit hole leads.

I'm your Huckleberry.



Because we are talking about threads on a couple of forums where they banned me. Unless the ban is lifted i will PROBABLY never respond. There is never a guarantee I will see a thread addressed to me. They would have to make sure to PM and direct me to their question.

I don't have a problem discussing this, but I have already explained many times about the orange tip. I have open asked about AP ammo (legal), ballistic vests (legal), nfa items (legal). All of this stuff can be bought online and at local retailers. Many gun owners have these items.
 

midiwall

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Seattleish, Washington, USA
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kwikrnu wrote
I don't have a problem discussing this, but I have already explained many times about the orange tip. I have open asked about AP ammo (legal), ballistic vests (legal), nfa items (legal). All of this stuff can be bought online and at local retailers. Many gun owners have these items.
Yes, many gun owners do, but they don't walk through a state park, in cammo and a black cap, with it all strung out on their back.


2 more cops were shot out here in WA this week, and 2 more shot at while in their patrol car - and there you go, traipsing around with a disguised gun full of high speed long range ammo.

Again, when do we start talking about the difference between "The Law" and "Doing Something Just Plain Dumb"?
 

RussP

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Leonard, look around you. Read what people are posting. There is not a lot of support for your actions. These are the same people who rallied to support many open carry advocates in the past. They are telling you what you are doing is not wise and the outcome of your actions may be devastating.

Understand that you've made your point with law enforcement. On other forums they acknowledge you are carrying a firearm designated a pistol. They know you have a Tennessee carry permit. They know and understand the law governing carry in parks allows you to do so. An Officer Safety ALERT was issued yesterday about you to LE agencies in your region.

YOU WON THAT BATTLE! You have educated them.

Law enforcement agencies also know about your posts here and the other forums about your plans to open carry in other venues. You areknown to them as being legal. They are not going to give you all the attention any more. It is over.

You need to accept victory and move on.

Keep in mind though that right now the media is using you. Have you noticed that no one in the media portrayed the Rangers or Metro officers as the bad guys? You are the bad guy in the public mind. The public will call the police and the police will respond to a man with a gun. You have made it clear that you are expecting, which could be interpreted as meaning you are seeking, confrontations with law enforcement. True or not, that is the perception. And it could end badly for you.

You really need to let this go for a while.
 

Ironbar

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You know what Leonrd? With free speech comes responsibility. You have clearly demonstrated that you are perfectly willing to exercise the former, and totally avoid the latter.

You are an idiot child. Especially painting the tip of your gun orange. You give a bad name to everyone else in the open carry community.You are begging for trouble with your actions, and I have no sympathy for you whatsoever.
 

Landric

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This guy is a bozo looking for attention. There are plenty of them in the world, and he just happens to be (unfortunately) a gun owner. Lets look at the some problems with his behavior:

1- His method of carry (slung across the chest) is intimidating and implies less than lawful intent. I don't know TN law, but I would suspect that this comes awfully close to brandishing, if not actually meeting the elements. I can tell you that such behavior in North Carolina would fall within the much misunderstood "Going Armed to the Terror of the People" common law. Open carry is generally legal in NC, but open carry in such a manner (unholstered, carried in what appears to be a threatening manner across the chest, actually causing fear in others) isn't.

2- He has painted the tip of his pistol orange in an effort to disguise its true nature (even he admits that is the reason). There is no good reason for this, and in the event that there isn't a statute that prohibits altering a firearm to appear to be something else (like an Airsoft gun) stupid behavior like this is what is going to prompt such legislation.

3- The purpose of carrying a firearm, either openly or concealed, is self-protection, not to show off or attract attention. Clearly this doofus wants to attract attention and impress people with his big gun (one wonders what inadequacies he is attempting to make up for). He attracted attention, exactly what he wanted, and now he is complaining about it. That sort of attention is NOT what legitimate gun carriers need.

4- His choice of pistol is ridiculous for self defense. First off, he has attempted to make it look like a toy, which means he might actually be more likely to be targeted for a crime than someone who appears not to have a weapon. After all, what self-respecting gang banger wouldn't want to teach the guy brandishing a toy gun a lesson. That means he is probably slightly more likely to have to use his "pistol" (which is perhaps what he is looking to do). Second, since the "pistol" fires a rifle cartridge it is much more likely to punch right through its target and continue on its merry way. The fact that "our hero" decided to carry Wal-Mart FMJ ammunition increases the chance of overpenetration. Third, the makeup of the handgun makes it harder to shoot quickly and accurately at close range (the primary function of a handgun), which increases the chance of misses. Does anyone really want to be within several miles of this idiot when he decides to start cranking off rounds?

This sort of behavior, whether technically legal or not, can do nothing but increase the chance of attacks on our rights in the future. I'm actually sorry that the goofball wasn't arrested. All I can tell him is "better luck next time".
 

kwikrnu

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midiwall wrote:
kwikrnu wrote
I don't have a problem discussing this, but I have already explained many times about the orange tip. I have open asked about AP ammo (legal), ballistic vests (legal), nfa items (legal). All of this stuff can be bought online and at local retailers. Many gun owners have these items.
Yes, many gun owners do, but they don't walk through a state park, in cammo and a black cap, with it all strung out on their back.


2 more cops were shot out here in WA this week, and 2 more shot at while in their patrol car - and there you go, traipsing around with a disguised gun full of high speed long range ammo.

Again, when do we start talking about the difference between "The Law" and "Doing Something Just Plain Dumb"?

I'll bet a handgun carry permit holder shot someone this month. So take away the handgun carry permits of everyone. You know because they might hurt someone.:banghead:
 

kwikrnu

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RussP wrote:
Leonard, look around you. Read what people are posting. There is not a lot of support for your actions. These are the same people who rallied to support many open carry advocates in the past. They are telling you what you are doing is not wise and the outcome of your actions may be devastating.

Understand that you've made your point with law enforcement. On other forums they acknowledge you are carrying a firearm designated a pistol. They know you have a Tennessee carry permit. They know and understand the law governing carry in parks allows you to do so. An Officer Safety ALERT was issued yesterday about you to LE agencies in your region.

YOU WON THAT BATTLE! You have educated them.

Law enforcement agencies also know about your posts here and the other forums about your plans to open carry in other venues. You areknown to them as being legal. They are not going to give you all the attention any more. It is over.

You need to accept victory and move on.

Keep in mind though that right now the media is using you. Have you noticed that no one in the media portrayed the Rangers or Metro officers as the bad guys? You are the bad guy in the public mind. The public will call the police and the police will respond to a man with a gun. You have made it clear that you are expecting, which could be interpreted as meaning you are seeking, confrontations with law enforcement. True or not, that is the perception. And it could end badly for you.

You really need to let this go for a while.
Actually, I am just a regular person carrying a firearm. Cops come to me,I do not go to them. They are the ones seeking the confrontation. When they confront me, hopefully they check my permit and let me go on my way.
 

Fallguy

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kwikrnu wrote:
Actually, I am just a regular person carrying a firearm. Cops come to me,I do not go to them. They are the ones seeking the confrontation. When they confront me, hopefully they check my permit and let me go on my way.

Now that is a bit of stretch isn't it? Many people in TN carry handguns, many of them open.

I have not heard of any other single person having as many contacts with LE as you.

Now granted that is because there is a slight change they aren't posting about it as much, but then that is different issue.
 

USAF Retired

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:X I've been following your "story" here in Nashville. You're a real "nut job" and you are a diservice to those of us who champion the 2nd Amendment and the Concealed Carry law.

Your actions have done nothing but to bring a negative light upon our cause, and you've managed to bring negative publicity to lawful abiding citizens who champion the 2nd Amendment.

It's too bad there isn't a law on the books for "stupidity" because as a law enforcement officer, I'd charge you with multiple counts. As a judge, I'd sentence you to the maximum allowable sentence.

Perhaps you should go over to Parthenon and have your head examined.

In the meantime, I think law abiding weapons owners would be safer with you off the streets and out of the parks.
 

Ironbar

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USAF Retired wrote:
:X I've been following your "story" here in Nashville. You're a real "nut job" and you are a diservice to those of us who champion the 2nd Amendment and the Concealed Carry law.

Your actions have done nothing but to bring a negative light upon our cause, and you've managed to bring negative publicity to lawful abiding citizens who champion the 2nd Amendment.

It's too bad there isn't a law on the books for "stupidity" because as a law enforcement officer, I'd charge you with multiple counts. As a judge, I'd sentence you to the maximum allowable sentence.

Perhaps you should go over to Parthenon and have your head examined.

In the meantime, I think law abiding weapons owners would be safer with you off the streets and out of the parks.
Can I get a big AMEN?!
 

ODA 226

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kwikrnu wrote:

The point is carrying a handgun in a park is okay so why was I detained 2 1/2 hours?



BECAUSE YOU'RE AN ASSHAT!
 
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