detained in a TN State Park for 2.5 hours nearly arrested because cops don't know definition pistol

[kwikrnu]

Hawkflyer wrote:

You just do not get what a LOT of people are trying to tell you. You do live in America. But America is a lot more than a line on a map, or a body of laws. It is a society with a culture and expectations of behavior for its citizens, and how they interact with one another. It is about more than just YOUR rights, because we ALL have rights. Just as I have the right NOT to support every extremist nut case that comes along.

Sure you can ask questions, and you can buy things. You even have the right to be stupid once you obtain them. But Buddy, YOUR rights end at the nose of the next guy. You seem to forget that other people have rights too. Among those is the same right you proclaim to go about our business without disturbance. Your crackpot idea changed the atmosphere in that park for other patrons on that Sunday. Nobody goes to the park expecting to have a noisy and disturbing police party. Now I know you will blame the police for that, but don't even go there because there would have been no party without the guest of honor.

You have already admitted that the police can stop a person under the conditions you created. What you fail to see is that after the first cop stops you, you do NOT get a free ride with the next one just because they talked or because they know you. So long as the activity you are conducting continues, and it has the appearance of something that a LEO should check out, any LEO who sees you can stop you and go through the entire process again to his satisfaction. Each of those officers will treat you as they deem necessary based on the conditions at the time they stopped you.

By your own words the first Ranger found you with the weapon slung on your back. The second Ranger found you with the weapon slung on your chest. Those two carry methods represent a completely different threat level and the LEOs acted accordingly. By the way, you seem to forget that the first guy did not know the gun was real when he approached you, BECAUSE YOU ATTEMPTED TO CONCEAL THAT FACT WITH THE ORANGE TIP. The second guy KNEW it was real. Both acted accordingly.

The fact is that it does not matter that what you did was legal. You keep crying this mantra as your defense, but it does NOT justify what you have done. Most gun laws are NOT legal so why would ANYONE use that as the ONLY measure to determine what should or should not be done. You come here expecting everyone to support what you have done and you and a few others are shocked that people have reacted against your actions. By the way lets be clear about that point. It is YOUR ACTIONS that people have objected to, NOT the gun or your right to carry it. So here is the fact of the matter.

You have done nothing positive to support the OC community or people who have been fighting for decades to retain and expand the RTKABA so you could have the rights necessary to pull this stunt. Why can I say that? Because what you did may be legal, but it was S-T-U-P-I-D, and it damages the RTKABA cause and soils the reputation of the OC movement. Why? Because it shows a complete and total disregard for the responsibility that comes with having and exercising rights, and a total disregard for the rights of others. So why the hell should any of us support you? You have failed miserably in answering that simple question.

Merry Christmas

I didn't violate anyone's rights. I didn't yell, scream, stare,threaten, or assaultanyone. A good number of people donot like open carry picnics, but you don't see me claiming you're infringing on someone else's right.

Conditions did not change from the first and second ranger encounter. The weapon was on a sling and rested on my chest both times. The first ranger knew it was a real ak-47 because I told him. After I passed he could have ordered me to the ground, but he did not do so.

So, you say it wasn't the fact I carried this handgunpeople disagree with. So, tell me exactly what clothes I should wear next time I carry the AK. I'll even remove the thread protector and put on a regular flash hider. I'll bet people will still be steamed I carried an AK even in a business suit.

I didn't ask for your support. I'm not the member of any RTKBA movement or cause.

[kwikrnu]

midiwall wrote:

It's funny to watch you repeat what happened, but you refuse to see the story.

What makes you think the first ranger thought you were a decent guy? How would ANY LEO think that a guy walking around a rich neighborhood in cammo and a black skull cap with a fully loaded Draco - painted to look like a toy - was "a decent guy"?

The actions that happened as you came off the trail proves that he thought you were a THREAT that needed to be checked out very thoroughly.

Look at the facts, even as you see them, of what happened and then see the story.

If the first ranger thought I was dangerous why did he let me go? He knew the pistol was real. He was armed. He should have drew his gun and stopped me as I walked off if I was dangerous. However, he let me go lost sight of me as I walked away and I passed several more walkers.

[HankT]

USAF Retired wrote:

I have posted a link to this website and this discussion blog on The Tennessean as well as my Facebook page.


I invite the media to view this discussion, and to realize that we in the "mainstream" do not support nor condone the actions of this "nut case".

This guy is "trouble" and there is no question about it.

I really, seriously, wonder if he's not just a "nut case" but perhaps a "plant" from the Brady Bunch. If not, he's crazy enough that maybe he'd be better off in their crowd anyway. We have no place for him.

It's obvious that this guy will not listen to "reason".

This guy is one of ours. He's our homey. Just like Danbus. Just like anty506.

He's our guy.

Everything he does, we all get the credit.

kwik iz da man.

Our man.




USAF Retired wrote:

The point that you seem to me missing is that along with "rights" comes "responsibility". They go hand-in-hand.

It is not your "right" to "incite a riot" by "exercising your 1st Amendment right" and yelling the "N-word" in front of a large crowd of black folks.

Likewise, it is not your "right" to "incite the anti-gun" crowd by "exercising your 2nd Amendment rights" by the display of a weapon in an improper fashion at the wrong time and in the wrong place just to make some kind of "point".

:shock:Wow, this sounds like it came off of Sarah Brady's word processor....


Is your wife a MMM member by any chance????? Are you?

[cc10sbum]

In my opinion, carrying such a weapon openly (anywhere) is just extremely poor judgement. As CC permit holders, we must recognize that there will always be people that will be frightened by the sight of any firearm openly carried. If these instances continue to increase, at some point the Tn Legislature will likely address the issue and amend the current law and prohibit open carry. We do not want that to happen as that will then lead to "technical" violations when a weapon is exposed temporairly such as when puting on or removing a jacket. Just because we have the right to carry openly does not mean that we should flaunt that right and potentially jeapordize the right for all CC permit holders at some point in the future which is exactly what may happen.

[cc10sbum]

Furthermore, we all know that the orange tip is a universal sign that the weapon is not a real firearm. Use of this device on a real firearm can only be viewed as an intent to deceive other citizens and/or LE. This is also just plain dumb and ultimately will work against the CC rights that the Tn Legislature has extended to law abiding citizens of Tn. We should be thankful to the men and women of the Tn Legislature for giving us that right and we should not do stupid things like this that reflect adversely on the Tn Legislators that had the wisdom to grant us the right to carry. Stunts like this hurt all concerned.

[kwikrnu]

cc10sbum wrote:

In my opinion, carrying such a weapon openly (anywhere) is just extremely poor judgement. As CC permit holders, we must recognize that there will always be people that will be frightened by the sight of any firearm openly carried. If these instances continue to increase, at some point the Tn Legislature will likely address the issue and amend the current law and prohibit open carry. We do not want that to happen as that will then lead to "technical" violations when a weapon is exposed temporairly such as when puting on or removing a jacket. Just because we have the right to carry openly does not mean that we should flaunt that right and potentially jeapordize the right for all CC permit holders at some point in the future which is exactly what may happen.

Why is open carry poor judgement? I see your profile says you're in Tennessee.From whichState did you get your CC permit?

[kwikrnu]

cc10sbum wrote:

Furthermore, we all know that the orange tip is a universal sign that the weapon is not a real firearm. Use of this device on a real firearm can only be viewed as an intent to deceive other citizens and/or LE. This is also just plain dumb and ultimately will work against the CC rights that the Tn Legislature has extended to law abiding citizens of Tn. We should be thankful to the men and women of the Tn Legislature for giving us that right and we should not do stupid things like this that reflect adversely on the Tn Legislators that had the wisdom to grant us the right to carry. Stunts like this hurt all concerned.

Actually, we have a God given right to keep and bear arms. The Second Amendment recognizes the right. The Tennessee Constitution doesn't and saysmy God givenright may be regulated by the Legislature. Basically the Legislature took away my God given right and granted me a limited privilege in its place.

[Task Force 16]

Leonard,

To my knowledge, you still have not explained why you want AP ammo for this AK pistol of yours. "Because it's legal to have" isn't going to cut it. Standard FMJ rifle rounds will pierce most Kevlar vest. Are you planing on facing off with a swat team that most likely will be wearing the porcelain plated flak jackets?

Does anyone else hear what I hear?

Tick.....tick....tick....tick

[Hawkflyer]

Task Force 16 wrote:

...SNIP
Does anyone else hear what I hear?

Tick.....tick....tick....tick

Hell YES!

[Hawkflyer]

kwikrnu wrote:

...SNIP
So, you say it wasn't the fact I carried this handgunÂ*people disagree with. Â*So, tell me exactly what clothes I should wear next time I carry the AK. I'll even remove the thread protector and put on a regular flash hider. I'll bet people will still be steamed I carried an AK even in a business suit.

I didn't ask for your support. I'm not the member of any RTKBA movement or cause.

I realize that your reading comprehension is very poor, but please go back and review ALL of my posts and provide ANY quote showing where I made ANY statement related to your cloths. I could not give a rats A$$ what you wear.

The fact is that you did (by your actions) disturb the peace and quiet of the park. That was your intent and that was the result. This entire incident started with a lie when you painted the muzzle of your firearm and you continue to lie even now. All of us have seen in your posts, your shock and dismay that pro firearms people are not accepting you with open arms because you are working to expand the RTKABA. Now you proclaim that you are in fact not involved in that at all.

At least we are now getting to the truth in that you admit that this is NOT now and never has been about the RTKABA or any support for that right on your part. It is all about getting your 15 minutes of fame AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL OF THE REST OF US.

[Ironbar]

kwikrnu wrote:

Actually, we have a God given right to keep and bear arms. The Second Amendment recognizes the right. The Tennessee Constitution doesn't and saysmy God givenright may be regulated by the Legislature. Basically the Legislature took away my God given right and granted me a limited privilege in its place.

It'sa shame God didn't give you any brains to go along with your right to carry arms.

[slowfiveoh]

You guys still don't get it. For all of your "vast intellect" (claimed by hawkflyer), you sure aren't firing on all cylinders. Let me elaborate as to why your, and other commentary, is flat out disgusting hypocrisy in action:

For USAF:

YES, you can run up to a group of black people and yell the N word. That is YOUR RIGHT, and a EXERCISING OF YOUR 1st Amendment! What you, and Barrack Obama can't seem to grasp is it is NOT illegal for you to do so! It is the RESPONSE YOU PROVOKE that is illegal! It's called "responsibility of action". Same goes with yelling "fire" in a movie theater. You may exercise your right to free speech however you want. Don't even try to say the action itself is illegal, because you would be WRONG. It is the response it provokes in both cases, that is illegal!

If you want to draw a parrallel, simply having a mouth without a muzzle on it, is quite like our right to keep and bear arms. Unlawful discharge, could be likened to yelling fire in a movie theater. Society will state you have consequences to pay, and in either case none of your rights were infringed upon.

Have any of you taken college courses, and if so, why are you incapable of using the "critical thinking" process?



A large portion of you can't even quantify your own argument. You are substantiating the argument of the antis, and if you can't see that,I recommend for all your self purported "wisdom" and "advanced reasoning skills", that you grab a cuppa joe, and literally sit and think about this.

You can sit here and argue what is "ok" or the "right thing to do" until you are blue in the face. This guy didn't do anything wrong yet, and regardless of his motives, you are condemning him for activities the majority of you do every other day.



Here. I have sent the following email to the Brady Foundation:



"To Whom It May Concern,

Recently, members of the Open Carry community, on a variety of forums, have begun a full out assault on an individual who opted to practice what they have claimed on a number of threads, is a simple exercise of our rightsas granted via the 2nd Amendment of the US Consitution.

The purpose for this assault on this individuals character, who was actually operating full-well within his rights, is based on several factors, which may interest you.

It is my understanding that many of your colleagues have a desire to remove what they classify as "assault weapons", and have asserted that these weapons are indeed "dangerous" for public possession, and therefore should not be granted any kind of immunity via the 2nd Amendment.

The debates that have occured between you, and the Pro-Gun community, regarding these weapons, have included lots of commentary from the "Pro Gun" proponents wherein they describe the weapons as "Normal", or "Just as able to inflict damage as a normal handgun".

What you see from the "Pro Open Carry" community, is interesting though. When this man who walked through Radnor Park with an AK47 Pistol was detained, he was ultimately released because he was found to be violating no laws. However, let's take a look at commentary from some of the most staunch supporters of Open Carry rights, and the 2nd Amendment:

Mike Stollenwerk (Co-Founder of OpenCarry.org):
**“Many people in the open carry community are not very happy with this fellow's apparent stunt to carry a ‘handgun’ that looked like a long gun slung over his shoulder, and capped with an orange tip to make it disguised as a toy — no wonder the police took an interest and investigated the guy. Had they seen a person wearing a normal handgun in a proper holster on a walk, they probably would have just said ‘hello.’�**

The following was clipped directly from opencarry.org:

**John Pierce is a co-founder of OpenCarry.org, a group that seeks to normalize the open carry of "properly holstered handguns" as people go about their lives.

"On a fundamental level, I don't think he did anything wrong," Pierce said of Embody, "but politically that might not be best thing to do and it's not something we're advocating for."

Pierce said wearing camouflage also perpetuates an unhelpful stereotype.

Pierce said he lived in Bristol, Va., for years, right on Tennessee border. He said he has openly carried a holstered, normal-sized handgun in Tennessee numerous times and never had anyone complain about it.**

What is interesting to note, is this:

Apparently, even in the firearms community, amongst individuals who are very adept with firearms and ballistics, the AK47 is cause for alarm, as clearly indicated above.

Apparently, wearing and using camouflage, even in the firearms community, in conjunction with firearms, is cause for alarm.

Apparently, and most interestingly , firearms proponents for open carry, are lobbying only for "Holstered, normal-sized handguns".

Previously, it was believed that these individuals would fight for the "rights" of people to carry any firearm they wished, so long as it complied with local, state, and federal law. This is apparently NOT the case, as you can plainly see now, with a quick perusing of the majority of open carry or firearms forums.

A large portion of those there, who professed to be supporters of open carry, are stating that carying an AK47 pistol in a rural state park, is not a wise (or normal?) thing to do, irregardless of its legality.

Respectfully,

My Name Here"

Keep up the hypocrisy, hypocrites! I will update the anti-gun proponents and eliminate the legwork for them!

"Right thing to do". WOW, some of you are seriously devoid of any critical thinking skills.

Cheers!

[WCrawford]

Hawkflyer wrote:

You just do not get what a LOT of people are trying to tell you. You do live in America. But America is a lot more than a line on a map, or a body of laws. It is a society with a culture and expectations of behavior for its citizens, and how they interact with one another. It is about more than just YOUR rights, because we ALL have rights. Just as I have the right NOT to support every extremist nut case that comes along.

These are the words of the looters and the moochers they feed. Which are you?

[RussP]

slowfiveoh wrote:

You guys still don't get it. ...

"Right thing to do". WOW, some of you are seriously devoid of any critical thinking skills.

Cheers!

Actually, many do get the big picture. Critical thinking? How long have you followed kwikrnu's posts in the four, five, six different gun forums? Some followed kwikrnu's posts for months seeing his anger against those challenging his actions and motives expressed in other venues. He even cussed me out in one post where that sort of language is allowed.

Did you know he admits in a few posts that he open carried his .44 magnum in Tennessee parks. He admits he was challenged briefly on a few occasions. Then he said he needed to find a way to get more reaction from law enforcement.

He himself admits his current actions are influenced by the events in AZ with the teenager arrested for carrying an airsoft AR replica in a public park. Only he chose to disguise a real firearm as an airsoft in order to keep police from shooting him. Problem with that is every law enforcement agency now knows it is a real AK. Any furtive movement on kwikrnu's part could have disastrous results.

On to a question for you. In your alleged email to the Brady group, you forgot to mention armor piercing ammo, personal body armor for himself and the silencer. Were those omissions accidental?

slowfiveoh, are you theslowfiveoh on YouTube interested in illegal street racing? Your profile here says your interests include cars, bikes and firearms. Do you and kwikrnu know each other from 5.0 Mustang forums?

Choose to dismiss some of the facts in kwikrnu's real story if you want. Usually, though, critical thinking benefits from full and complete facts.