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Thread: Store owner shoots tire out and finds suspect changing tire blocks away

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    While I would like the store owner to not be charged with anything, it will be interesting to see if he is.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Tire change stops suspect in Suffolk burglary

    By Alicia P.Q. Wittmeyer
    The Virginian-Pilot
    © December 21, 2009
    SUFFOLK

    A tire change may have been a burglar's undoing Friday night.

    An attempt to burglarize Butler's Store, on Godwin Boulevard, had been unsuccessful. The store's owner, John Butler, said he heard an intruder try to kick in the door and had chased him away, but the intruder managed to drive off and escape unharmed.

    "I coulda dropped him," said Butler, who'd come running out of his store with a 9 mm in his hands. He and his wife live in an apartment in the back of the store, he said, and they'd just been burglarized a few weeks ago.

    "The thought did cross my mind," he said. "But then I thought, 'No, I don't want to do it.' And my wife, she was inside here crying, and she'd be upset."

    So, Butler said, he fired at the tires on the escaping 1997 Chevy, hitting the front left one. The burglar drove off, and police arrived soon after.

    Butler was on his way to police headquarters to give a statement when he saw something funny in a 7-Eleven parking lot.

    "Car exactly like the way I was saying," he said. "Trunk open. The fella was changing the tire." Butler called 911.

    Matthew Freeman has been charged with breaking and entering and possession of burglary tools, police spokeswoman Debbie George said.

    Alicia Wittmeyer, (757) 222-5216, alicia.wittmeyer@pilotonline.com
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    Yeah, while I don't blame the store owner for being pissed, I can see an unlawful discharge or something like that coming his way. If there isn't an immediate threat to shoot, I don't see a reason to shoot at all. I can't sit here and say what I would do under a stressful situation like that, but I don't see shooting out the tires as qualifying as a reason to fire.

    Nice shot though. :P

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I'll buy this guy a steak dinner if I ever meet him.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    I'll buy this guy a steak dinner if I ever meet him.
    .. how about a "Gadson Flag".....?

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    He may just face a criminal charge of some kind...time will tell.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Matthew Freeman has been charged with breaking and entering and possession of burglary tools, police spokeswoman Debbie George said.
    What are burglary tools?

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    Kevin108 wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Matthew Freeman has been charged with breaking and entering and possession of burglary tools, police spokeswoman Debbie George said.
    What are burglary tools?
    Anything that could be used to gain entry I guess. Does this mean I can't have a toolbox in my truck since I'm not a licensed dealer of tools? I'd be assumed to have intent to commit burglary? :?

    § 18.2-94. Possession of burglarious tools, etc.
    If any person have in his possession any tools, implements or outfit, with intent to commit burglary, robbery or larceny, upon conviction thereof he shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony. The possession of such burglarious tools, implements or outfit by any person other than a licensed dealer, shall be prima facie evidence of an intent to commit burglary, robbery or larceny.
    (Code 1950, § 18.1-87; 1960, c. 358; 1970, c. 587; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)


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    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    Kevin108 wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Matthew Freeman has been charged with breaking and entering and possession of burglary tools, police spokeswoman Debbie George said.
    What are burglary tools?
    Could be a number of things. For instance, if the guy has a history of burglary and he gets caught with screwdrivers, a crowbar and a hammer in his car, they can reasonably charge him with possession of burglary tools.

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    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    I have a van parked outside with bolt cutters, pry bars and lock picking equipment. They belong to my employer and I use them daily for work. Sounds like a slippery slope of vague terminology. Not that there's any question about things in the case of the story above, it's just the first time I've come across that term.

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    Its what I like to call, a "piling on" law. As if charging someone with Armed Robbery isn't enough, then they have to add Using a FirearmDuring the Commission of aFelony,...Oh and you had a crow bar in your trunk? Well, that's Possession of Burglary Tools too.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Yes but...

    This part of the code is extremely problematic:

    The possession of such burglarious tools, implements or outfit by any person other than a licensed dealer, shall be prima facie evidence of an intent to commit burglary, robbery or larceny.
    That says to me that merely having fairly common tools in your trunk makes you guilty.

    If this same standard were applied to openly carrying a gun... they could put us all in jail for murder.

    TFred


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    fully_armed_biker wrote:
    Its what I like to call, a "piling on" law. As if charging someone with Armed Robbery isn't enough, then they have to add Using a FirearmDuring the Commission of aFelony,...Oh and you had a crow bar in your trunk? Well, that's Possession of Burglary Tools too.
    What is wrong with charging someone with every offense that they allegedly violated? There's actually good reasoning behind that. Its a normal thing that is done by every prosecutor in the land.

    If some dirtbag broke into your home in the middle of the night, raped your wife, shot and killed you and then assaulted your child, you think that he should only be charged with the murder as its the most serious of the offenses? I'm lost here....
    James Reynolds

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    Well...the scenario you presented would be a capital offense...do you really think adding 20 years to the sentence would make any difference?

    My problem is with inventing laws...we don't have enough laws on the books?We can't enforce all of the laws that are on the books now....so let's add more! Where does it end? Is murdering someone with a gun any more heinous than with a knife?And we wonder why this irrational fear of guns exists.

    Now look at it in this context...

    A person uses a gun in self defense and kills his\her assailant, an unsympathetic and over zealousprosectutor gets his hands on the case, tries and somehow convicts the person, that was mearly defending him/herself,of manslaughter, a felony...Oh, and the addedcharge of Using a Firearm in the Commisison of a Felony...

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    fully_armed_biker wrote:
    Its what I like to call, a "piling on" law. As if charging someone with Armed Robbery isn't enough, then they have to add Using a FirearmDuring the Commission of aFelony,...Oh and you had a crow bar in your trunk? Well, that's Possession of Burglary Tools too.
    What is wrong with charging someone with every offense that they allegedly violated? There's actually good reasoning behind that. Its a normal thing that is done by every prosecutor in the land.

    If some dirtbag broke into your home in the middle of the night, raped your wife, shot and killed you and then assaulted your child, you think that he should only be charged with the murder as its the most serious of the offenses? I'm lost here....
    What's wrong is I carry a "get home kit" in the vehicle that has many items that are "prima facie evidence of an intent to commit burglary, robbery or larceny" when the only intent was to have the means to extricate myself or my vehicle from obstacles that nature or malevolent men have thrown onto the roadway. If the cops ever combine my obstacle removal tools and my gardening implements I am going to be going away for a long time unless I can mount an affirmative defense after being busted at some drunk driver roadblock not for DWI but for possession of burglar tools.

    I am not againt laws that apply only to criminals who have committed criminal acts, but being subjected to "possession of burglar tools" for merely carrying a crowbar in the car is taking things a step too far.

    I know someone is going to tell me I have nothing to fear unless/until I've done something wrong. OK, how about the fact that I've pissed off the powers that be on Richmond City Council and also violated some city parking ordinance on the ame night? There's the makings of my perfect storm. Please remember visiting days are Tuesdays & Thursdays.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    ...and also violated some city parking ordinance on the ame night? There's the makings of my perfect storm. Please remember visiting days are Tuesdays & Thursdays.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Do we need to put some money in your account for canteen day?
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    ProShooter wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    ...and also violated some city parking ordinance on the ame night? There's the makings of my perfect storm. Please remember visiting days are Tuesdays & Thursdays.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Do we need to put some money in your account for canteen day?
    Nah, he actually likes the food on the inside and snacks are avail. on the 2nd tier. :P

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    ...and also violated some city parking ordinance on the ame night? There's the makings of my perfect storm. Please remember visiting days are Tuesdays & Thursdays.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Do we need to put some money in your account for canteen day?
    Nah, he actually likes the food on the inside and snacks are avail. on the 2nd tier. :P

    Yata hey

    Those snacks usually come at a steep price....

    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    ...and also violated some city parking ordinance on the ame night? There's the makings of my perfect storm. Please remember visiting days are Tuesdays & Thursdays.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Do we need to put some money in your account for canteen day?
    Nah, he actually likes the food on the inside and snacks are avail. on the 2nd tier. :P

    Yata hey
    Those snacks usually come at a steep price....
    Its the barter system and its alive and well.

    Wonder what the "monetary system" is now that tobacco products (cigarettes) are not allowed.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    ...another part of my objection to it is...and you need to remember that I grew up in Chicago, home to the most corrupt political system in the country, theCook CountyDemocrat Machine...that certainoffenses only seemed to be pursued and prosecuted in the months leading up to the re-election of the State's Attorney...you guessed it Richard M. Daley, now the Mayor of Chicago. He'd try to bolster his record for his re election...

    I actually got into an argument with a family member of mine...die hard Democrat and BIG fan of the Daleys. He tried to tell me the reason they called it "The Machine" was because it got the job done...I laughed and told him (my uncle)...that it's called the machine because like any piece of machinery...it needs to be "greased" for it to work! Bribes are just a way of life in Chicago politics.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    Kevin108 wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Matthew Freeman has been charged with breaking and entering and possession of burglary tools, police spokeswoman Debbie George said.
    What are burglary tools?
    Anything that could be used to gain entry I guess. Does this mean I can't have a toolbox in my truck since I'm not a licensed dealer of tools? I'd be assumed to have intent to commit burglary? :?

    § 18.2-94. Possession of burglarious tools, etc.
    If any person have in his possession any tools, implements or outfit, with intent to commit burglary, robbery or larceny, upon conviction thereof he shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony. The possession of such burglarious tools, implements or outfit by any person other than a licensed dealer, shall be prima facie evidence of an intent to commit burglary, robbery or larceny.
    (Code 1950, § 18.1-87; 1960, c. 358; 1970, c. 587; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)
    Did you mean a "licensed dealer" of "burglarious tools"? Does this include Lowe's, Home Depot, True Value, Ace Hardware, Sears, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc., or is it just limited to plumbers, electricians, carpenters, home handyman services, etc.?

    Every car comes with at least one such implement, the jack handle/lug wrench.

    What moron crafted this piece of legislation? Oh, wait... Even more morons had to vote for it, not to mention sign it.

    Hmmm.. Burglarious rhymes with Hilarious, and that's not even funny. :celebrate

    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Hendu024 wrote:
    Kevin108 wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Matthew Freeman has been charged with breaking and entering and possession of burglary tools, police spokeswoman Debbie George said.
    What are burglary tools?
    Could be a number of things. For instance, if the guy has a history of burglary and he gets caught with screwdrivers, a crowbar and a hammer in his car, they can reasonably charge him with possession of burglary tools.
    Sooo, in other words for any burglars here. Don't take a real job in construction!

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Kevin108 wrote:
    I have a van parked outside with bolt cutters, pry bars and lock picking equipment. They belong to my employer and I use them daily for work. Sounds like a slippery slope of vague terminology. Not that there's any question about things in the case of the story above, it's just the first time I've come across that term.
    Them must prove intent to burglarize? I wonder if that is defined somewhere.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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