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Open Carry and State Registered Medical Cannabis

S

scubabeme

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Found a citation: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/924.html

It's lengthy so I won't copy it here, but if one interprets a medical marijuana dispensary as drug trafficking from a federal viewpoint (as I'm certain the feds would), then according to § 924(c)(1) above, it's a SERIOUS offense. These are the MINIMUM sentences: 5 yearsfor possession, 7 years if it's "brandished" and 10 years if it's discharged.
 

marshaul

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scubabeme wrote:
Ya can't leave "intoxication" out of it! The quoted law specifically mentions "under the influence"--if You, the one in posession of the firearm, is not "under..." then according to THAT law it's not a crime. Don't think I'd want to be the test case, but then I don't have any need/desire to partake of that substance, either, so I won't be.
That's what I meant by "leave intoxication out of this". Without being "under the influence", it seems no crime has been committed (except the Federal crime of possession itself).

Speaking of which, if the Federal GFSZ act was originally deemed unconstitutional because it was a purely criminal law matter with no bearing on interstate commerce, I'm not sure the Federal government can prohibit "being under the influence" anyway, when possession itself is not a crime. What has intoxication to do with interstate commerce?
 

cscitney87

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Thanks everyone. Until this gets hammered out (non-Federal) I am just sticking with the "don't ask don't tell" policy in a traffic stop. Hope that holds up. It's just a matter of time before this issue is in court.
 

cscitney87

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From my post in the Michigan section- they have medical marijuana laws as well

To sum things up- given that recent case I sited-

As protected by law- both carrying a pistol and carrying this medicine, in your vehicle or on your persons, is perfectly legal. That said- carrying this medicine in your vehicle, at all, could land you in court with a "driving while ability impaired" or similar charge- if the officer has reason to believe that you have used your medicine lately. Source: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/How-Long-Does-Marijuana-Stay-In-Your-System.html

3 days to a month for the average patient to have expelled the metabolites of cannabis out of the body.

DO NOT admit to using this medicine AT ALL during any traffic stop.
(same during a Terry stop- while in possession of a firearm- Do Not admit to using this medicine.)

According to recent events: You will be liable for both operating a motor vehicle while under the influence and you will also be liable for being in possession of the pistol while under the influence. Remember, the legislature considers the metabolites of cannabis as cannabis all the same in relation to being under the influence (aka having the compound in your body) http://www.mapinc.org/newsnorml/v10/n127/a03.html


Now given the science- and all the variables involved- including the officers intelligence, patience, and empathy towards a "suffering" patient. We know that there are more than one or two officers that still consider this medicine to be an illegal, dangerous, illicit, deadly substance. Be careful and please keep your eyes and ears peeled.

Update this thread if anyone hears or sees anything else on the matter. Thanks

In relation to Colorado-
I believe our officers and legislation is more lax, on the medical marijuana, when considering how much THC is still metabolized in your body- days or weeks after medicating.
 

cscitney87

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Pace wrote:
Why has anyone not pointed how STUPID it is to carry a firearm while impaired?
Let me add that your statement is INCREDIBLY short sighted. Are you assuming that anybody in possession of medical marijuana is under the influence of medical marijuana? Nobody has advocated being under the influence of medical marijuana while possessing a handgun. Technically- if your handgun is in your home- and you are a medical marijuana patient- you are Already in possession of a gun while under the influence. Same for any shotgun or rifle- any gun. So immediately there would be "laws" or backlash from the community if this was such a big deal anyway- They would say "These patients own guns to protect themselves against bad guys- but then they go see their caregiver and come back and get high. I don't want people getting high with guns.."

IT HAPPENS ANYWAY thousands and thousands of "gangsters" and "criminal" young adults and old adults alike- IT IS ILLEGAL but it happens more often than you think. As someone once posted here- I would rather be around a "high" guy with a gun than be around a drunk guy with a gun. Or be around a guy with a gun after he just popped 2 Xannax. Or be driving with a guy with a gun after he just popped 2 Vicodin.


Let me bring something else to your attention: Smart Guy!

As noted, potential medical marijuana patients may, as part of their application for a medical marijuana card in Colorado, designate a “primary caregiver” who will have significant responsibility for managing the well-being of the patient using medical marijuana. Caregivers must be at least 18 years of age, but there is no requirement that caregivers have specific medical training or background. Therefore, any person who has significant responsibility for managing the well-being of a patient can be a caregiver.
Caregivers can be designated on the initial application by the patient for a medical marijuana license. To select a caregiver after becoming a state-licensed Patient, the Patient must submit a Change of Address or Caregiver form to the Health Department’s Medical Marijuana Registry at the below address. The Change of Address or Caregiver form can be printed off here:
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/medicalmarijuana/Changeform.pdf
Ms. Debra Tuenge
Medical Marijuana Registry
Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment
HSVR-ADM2-A1
4300 Cherry Creek Drive South

Denver, Colorado 80246-1530
Phone: (303) 692-2184
Email: medical.marijuana@state.co.us or debra.tuenge@state.co.us

Caregivers are entitled to manufacture or possess medical marijuana in order to provide that medicine to the patient. After approval by the Health Department, both the patient and the primary caregiver should be protected from state or local prosecution for possession or cultivation of marijuana that is used solely for the medical purposes within the state guidelines for allowable quantities. However, as discussed below, caregivers and patients remain subject to potential federal prosecution despite the state law allowing for medical marijuana use in Colorado.

So I will further my point by saying that One may be in possession of medical marijuana, legally, and also legally be open carrying a pistol on his person. Both are legal and perfectly OKAY to do and perfectly not STUPID.
 

Pace

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Good point, I didn't make the distinction, sorry about that and thanks for the education.
 

cscitney87

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Pace wrote:
Good point, I didn't make the distinction, sorry about that and thanks for the education.
You are welcome and I cannot express how thankful I am that we can have a tactful conversion on the issue. I appreciate it, Pace, you are very respectable.
 

cscitney87

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New information on the RMGO Firearms Laws page. The new insert includes information on Medical Marijuana. As the page stands right now- it is incorrect, unrelated to our State laws as they stand, and basically tyrannical in that RMGO is abusing it's position to provide information- when knowingly providing incorrect information. The following is my conversation, sourced, with the Director. It's clear from his response that RMGO cares NOT about the State Law surrounding Medical Marijuana. It's also clear that RMGO cares NOT about the rights of medical marijuana recipients. Read my email and the responses below it.


My message to RMGO... Keep your reservations to yourself. Provide factually correct information or no information. If you make a mistake- correct it. Don't cop some attitude about how weed is the devil's plant.



And here we go-

You guys are Killing me here! You cannot be prescribed medical marijuana. No such pharmacy exists in the entire Nation that can doll out marijuana. (1) However, marijuana can be recommended by a physician. Simply, the State of Colorado has decriminalized the facilitation of use of a federally unlawful medicine. Note that the State registry is strictly confidential.(2) A potential SELLER of firearms would Not knowingly be selling to an abuser of a controlled substance.

For, in Colorado, no documentation is required during private party sales. Unless the information is volunteered there is no legal obstacle in selling to any individual on the State registry as the SELLER would not knowingly be selling to a State registered abuser of a controlled substance (in this case let us not try to sugar coat it).

I suspect that many BUYERS of firearms are marking that they are NOT UNLAWFUL abusers of marijuana when purchasing firearms with an FFL. Thank you for bringing this to the attention of the community. Additionally, if a Sheriff's CHP paperwork requires that an APPLICANT is not an unlawful abuser; the applicant would NOT be an unlawful abuser in so forth as the Sheriff is concerned in his jurisdiction. I would be willing to bet that many CHP holders are also State registered. Also to note; driving while intoxicated by any medicine is dangerous. Handling and carrying a loaded handgun while under the influence of medical marijuana is always illegal.

Thank you for hearing me out.

PS. No, I'm not a registered medical marijuana patient or drug abuser.
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/medicalmarijuana/FAQs.pdf
1. Why can’t I go to a pharmacy to fill a prescription for medical marijuana?
Pharmacies can only dispense medications that are prescribed. Marijuana is currently classified by the federal government as a Schedule I drug, which means it cannot be prescribed by any health care professional. Amendment 20 allows doctors to recommend marijuana, and it allows patients to grow their own medical marijuana for their private use.

2.How is my confidentiality protected?
Your confidentiality is protected by law and by the procedures used by the registry. No lists of patients or physicians are given out to anyone. Local law enforcement may only contact the registry to verify the information on a specific identification card. The registry database resides on a stand-alone computer and is password protected and encrypted. The office and all of its contents are locked at night when the registry administrator is out of the office.
Medical Marijuana & Firearms Prohibitions

Is it legal to have a medical marijuana prescription and purchase a firearm? No.
Look at the BATFE's 4473 form, called the Yellow Sheet, which you must fill out when purchasing a firearm through a dealer.
http://www.thundertek.net/documents/4473.pdf
Look at question 12 e. It asks a purchaser: “Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?”
Remember, this is a federal form, so it’s asking if the purchaser is a user to a (federally deemed) unlawful substance. Federal law still considers the use marijuana illegal. So, a legal Colorado user of marijuana could not answer 12 e. with a “No”. And if you answer “Yes”, you can’t buy a firearm from a dealer.
Also, the 1968 Gun Control Act says (TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 44 § 922) click here for a link:
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

Can someone who has a medical marijuana prescription possess a firearm? No.
18 U.S.C. § 922 (g)(3) and 21 U.S.C. § 802 both prohibit anyone who is a user or is addicted to any controlled substance, including marijuana, from possessing, owning, purchasing, receiving, or having within his custody any firearms.

Can someone who has a medical marijuana prescription get a concealed handgun permit? No.
From Colorado Revised Statutes, 18-12-203 Criteria for obtaining a permit
(f) Is not an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance as defined in section 18-18-102 (5). Whether an applicant is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance shall be determined as provided in federal law and regulations.
So, on every CCW application, you'll see this question:
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

So, unless federal law is changed, application for a permit could be denied by a sheriff, since federal law still considers the use of marijuana unlawful.









So you object to the term “prescription”? Fair enough. Our FAQ is not meant to be a legal document, but a simple source for research. But the point is made properly.

I’ve talked to several sheriffs about this issue. All have said that, though they do not have access to that registry, they will deny a permit to anyone whom they determine is a user of “medical marijuana” (there’s a misnomer if I’ve ever heard of one).

There are some who have suggested we recommend people to lie on their applications, but we’ve determined that’s not prudent.

RMGO has not entered into the debate about “medical marijuana”, and won’t. But our FAQ will give what we deem is the best advice.


Dudley Brown
Executive Director






Thank you for the timely response. Your attention and time is appreciated. The information and insight you provided was also a pleasant notice. Who would have thought the Sheriff couldn't run names through the State registry? Huh! It's very private. More private than I had originally estimated. Anyway; I understand an FAQ is just that, if you can or cannot alter some of the text that's fine. Again, thank you for responding. As always and as a firearm owner, I do appreciate what Rocky Mountain Gun Owners Association does for our country.






We can alter anything we wish. It’s just that we post our opinion on what will be deemed legal and what won’t.

Put simply, I believe if you use medical marijuana and a sheriff has any inkling of it, he will deny your permit application.

Let’s all be honest: marijuana is all but legal in Colorado now. I see all those “sick and dying” 20 year old douchebags who hang around the MMJ businesses, and we know the vast majority (I’ll stick my neck out at say 85-90%) aren’t using it for medicine.

They might get away with purchasing a firearm, but that doesn’t mean it’s legal.

Dudley Brown
Executive Director
 

aadvark

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... ut does Federal Law apply to IntraState Commerce?
The answer is: NO!

Colorado will probably Introduce a Firearms Freedom Act next Legislative Session, but this is only a guess. In the meantime, Federal Law DOES apply, but less, and until, such Firearms Freedom Act is passed.

Colorados' wish to Legalize Medical Marijuana, as several other States have done, is a 9th and 10th Amendment Issue. Federal Law does not apply to or effect IntraState Commerce.

Federal Law only Regulates InterState Commerce of Firearms, per Federal Law U.S.C. 10 and U.S.C 921(a)(2).
 

ooghost1oo

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What are the implications of legally carrying cannabis while legally openly carrying a pistol? From what I can gather- technically- these two cannot be combined and misconstrude as a crime.

(Amendment 20) Both are Constitutionally protected rights.

What are your opinions all around?

I've heard from an afficianado (sp?) who's also into guns that you can't have a firearm and narcotics on your person simultaneously, because it violates some sort of federal anti-drug-dealer laws.

Note: This has nothing to do with OC'ing while 'under the influence'. Just carrying to two things together. Obviously you can't OC or CC while stoned--it would be just like doing so while drunk.
 
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ooghost1oo

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To note: I've actually been told, by a medical cannabis dispensary owner, that all firearms are banned in such facilities. (Owner complained that he would like to carry but cannot)

Any opinion on this? I would like to see any such restrictions lifted if such restrictions can be confirmed in law.

This has gotta be bunk. Dispensaries are privately owned businesses, just like other businesses, who can be 'no weapons allowed' (and many of them do), but there's no more legal weight that a liquor store, etc., that prohibits guns.

Edit: After reading more posts above, it occurs to me that the reason most of Dispensaries don't allow weapons (aside from the owners likely being Liberal gun-haters), is because if they cannot have a gun and pot in the same place, they cannot defend themselves from being robbed. Or maybe it's different inside private business property. Then again, it's probably just because they're afraid of gang-bangers. Then AGAIN, a customer can't be carrying while going in to buy some weed ANYWAY, because then they'd be leaving with a gun AND some pot on their person.
 
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Yooper

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... ut does Federal Law apply to IntraState Commerce?
The answer is: NO!

Colorado will probably Introduce a Firearms Freedom Act next Legislative Session, but this is only a guess. In the meantime, Federal Law DOES apply, but less, and until, such Firearms Freedom Act is passed.

Colorados' wish to Legalize Medical Marijuana, as several other States have done, is a 9th and 10th Amendment Issue. Federal Law does not apply to or effect IntraState Commerce.

Federal Law only Regulates InterState Commerce of Firearms, per Federal Law U.S.C. 10 and U.S.C 921(a)(2).


The feds think that someone who grows pot in their home, for their own personal use is affecting interstate commerce, and therefore they can regulate it. And in '05, the Supreme Court agreed (Gonzales v. Raich). Of those who voted AGAINST states rights, 3 still remain (Stevens, Kennedy, Ginsburg) with Scalia concurring. Of those that voted FOR states rights (minority opinion), only Thomas remains.

If California passes their law this Nov that legalizes marijuana, and /or one of these Firearms freedom acts makes it to the Supreme Court, based off of past performance, Stevens, Kennedy, Ginsburg, and Scalia will likely vote against us. That means, the other 5 will all have to vote in our favor.

Another issue is Obamacare. The DOJ's argument in the lower court, in the case brought up by states Attorney's General, is that a person, by NOT purchasing health insurance, is in fact affecting interstate commerce, and thus the government has the power to fine / tax / whatever a person from not purchasing health insurance.

It is going to be interesting to see how it all plays out. It would be easy for a Justice to contradict themselves by voting in favor on one issue, but against in another. But then again, Gonzales v. Raich dealt with Interstate Commerce, and not the 9th and 10th Amendments.
 

entartet17

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Colorado will probably Introduce a Firearms Freedom Act next Legislative Session, but this is only a guess

One was introduced last session but it never made it out of committee. I'm sure it will be reintroduced.

The feds think that someone who grows pot in their home, for their own personal use is affecting interstate commerce, and therefore they can regulate it.

Yet despite the court's ruling numerous states continue to ignore the decision (effectively engaging in nullification) and allow for medical marijuana. If the Supreme Court strikes down Prop 19 (assuming it passes), CA will likely ignore the decision.
 

Cofi

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you can not have MMJ and a firearm in your possession at the same time, my lawyer has a client who had a legal CCW and was legally transporting mmj for his dispensery he has been charged with a special circumstance crimes and is looking at 8 years after being pulled over for a traffic offense!!!!!!

most dispenserys will not allow you to open carry
 

marshaul

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you can not have mmj and a firearm in your possession at the same time, my lawyer has a client who had a legal ccw and was legally transporting mmj for his dispensery he has been charged with a special circumstance crimes and is looking at 8 years after being pulled over for a traffic offense!!!!!!

This doesn't imply anything about non-permit holders.
 
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since9

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I've re-read the entire thread, and here's what I'm reading, in short form:

1. Possessing a firearm is, in and of itself, legal in all states, with few restrictions, most notably prior felony conviction or mental instability.

2. Possessing marijuana is legal in some states with a prescription.

3. The feds have not yet recognized marijuana as a legal substance, and probably won't until either Congressional legislation or a SCOTUS ruling makes it so.

What this boils down to is that being in possession of both a firearm and marijuana may be considered legal in some states, but the fed has yet to recognize it, and they can still prosecute you under federal law for simultaneous possession of both.

Does this sum things up?
 

cscitney87

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I've re-read the entire thread, and here's what I'm reading, in short form:

2. Possessing marijuana is legal in some states with a prescription.

Does this sum things up?

No. There is no prescription for medical marijuana because of federal law. There is only a Recommendation by a physician.
 
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