-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Cop brings a gun to a snowball fight
- Thread starter ed
- Start date
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
peter nap wrote:
I guess not. You should have stuck around. Then you could have taken the Making Them Drink Kool-Aid seminar.
Might've helped your forum argumentation, too.
Maybe not...
peter nap wrote:
I guess not. You should have stuck around. Then you could have taken the Making Them Drink Kool-Aid seminar.
Might've helped your forum argumentation, too.
Maybe not...
imported post
OK, here's where I am on this....
A bunch of GROWN-UPs decided to have snowball fight, not in a school yard or football field, but in a major intersection of Washington, DC. An intersection that is less than a block from the 2nd District police station, is at the corner of a DC Gov't buidling, and yards from a fire station. Less than three blocks away there is a HS, a rec center w/field, and another elementary school w/field.
Should the cop have drawn his weapon - no; he should have identified himself to the group and told them to disperse. If his vehicle - or his body - had been hit by snowball, chances of finding the "thrower" is about the same as that snowball last in Hades for micro-second.
But the bottomline, despite the "good ole days" of snowball fights.... these were ADULTs doing something stupid in a rather public place and no one deserves to have a snowball tossed at their vehicle or person - if they are NOT part of the group. Put the guy on desk-duty for a month, have em take some classes and get him back on the streets to do some good; lawd knows DC needs it with all the crime up there.
OK, here's where I am on this....
A bunch of GROWN-UPs decided to have snowball fight, not in a school yard or football field, but in a major intersection of Washington, DC. An intersection that is less than a block from the 2nd District police station, is at the corner of a DC Gov't buidling, and yards from a fire station. Less than three blocks away there is a HS, a rec center w/field, and another elementary school w/field.
Should the cop have drawn his weapon - no; he should have identified himself to the group and told them to disperse. If his vehicle - or his body - had been hit by snowball, chances of finding the "thrower" is about the same as that snowball last in Hades for micro-second.
But the bottomline, despite the "good ole days" of snowball fights.... these were ADULTs doing something stupid in a rather public place and no one deserves to have a snowball tossed at their vehicle or person - if they are NOT part of the group. Put the guy on desk-duty for a month, have em take some classes and get him back on the streets to do some good; lawd knows DC needs it with all the crime up there.
hunter45
Regular Member
imported post
jadedone4 wrote:
Well said. That pretty much sums up my feelings about the incident.
jadedone4 wrote:
Well said. That pretty much sums up my feelings about the incident.
imported post
jadedone4 wrote:
No judge in the country is going to squeak a felony out of a snowball. He jumped out and proceed to spew a never ending stream of obscenities while waving his gun around.
Now he could have gotten away with it if he hadn't gotten caught on tape. The Chief of Police in a very political city, that just got her butt kicked over gun control, is not going to slap him on the wrist.
At best he can look forward to a long career in records.
jadedone4 wrote:
You're right to a degree but, it was a snowball. Not a rock. Sure he should be PO'ed but you are forgetting the higher standard of conduct.
No judge in the country is going to squeak a felony out of a snowball. He jumped out and proceed to spew a never ending stream of obscenities while waving his gun around.
Now he could have gotten away with it if he hadn't gotten caught on tape. The Chief of Police in a very political city, that just got her butt kicked over gun control, is not going to slap him on the wrist.
At best he can look forward to a long career in records.
TFred
Regular Member
imported post
ProShooter wrote:
Also, the Virginia code requires an element of danger: "whereby the life of any person on such train, car, vessel, or other watercraft, or in such motor vehicle or other vehicle, may be put in peril"... not exactly an open and shut case for a snowball.
The thing that intrigues me the most about this whole story is what if this had happened in Northern Virginia instead of DC? Specifically with respect to how the officer would have behaved and the crowd reacted to his brandishing his firearm. Where am I going with this? Take a look at the crowd. There were a bunch, yes, but any half-way intelligent person could surmise immediately that this was not a bunch of gang-bangers having a fight. This officer could easily assume that not only were no guns in that crowd, but perhaps even that the sight of his gun would instill fear and immediate weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth among the snowball throwers. Was that his intent?
I can't say that I feel sorry for this officer, despite the fact that the crowd was in the wrong and may very well have been engaged in criminal activity, in my opinion this officer did almost nothing right, from what I saw on the video. If the DC cops can't handle and interact in a positive manner with an energetic bunch of folks just wanting to have a little fun in the snow, how in the world can they handle the real criminals?
This guy did the DC PD no favors, and I think did a ton of damage to the public image of the department.
TFred
ProShooter wrote:
Of course this is the Virginia law, and the incident happened in DC, so one would probably have to look through their code to see what they have on the books. Some how I suspect equal or even more stringent code there.
Also, the Virginia code requires an element of danger: "whereby the life of any person on such train, car, vessel, or other watercraft, or in such motor vehicle or other vehicle, may be put in peril"... not exactly an open and shut case for a snowball.
The thing that intrigues me the most about this whole story is what if this had happened in Northern Virginia instead of DC? Specifically with respect to how the officer would have behaved and the crowd reacted to his brandishing his firearm. Where am I going with this? Take a look at the crowd. There were a bunch, yes, but any half-way intelligent person could surmise immediately that this was not a bunch of gang-bangers having a fight. This officer could easily assume that not only were no guns in that crowd, but perhaps even that the sight of his gun would instill fear and immediate weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth among the snowball throwers. Was that his intent?
I can't say that I feel sorry for this officer, despite the fact that the crowd was in the wrong and may very well have been engaged in criminal activity, in my opinion this officer did almost nothing right, from what I saw on the video. If the DC cops can't handle and interact in a positive manner with an energetic bunch of folks just wanting to have a little fun in the snow, how in the world can they handle the real criminals?
This guy did the DC PD no favors, and I think did a ton of damage to the public image of the department.
TFred
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
ed wrote:
And I would want to see non-LEO charged under the same circumstances, HankTroll. I would never do this, not unless I saw balls of ice causing life-threatening injury.
ed wrote:
Yup.
And I would want to see non-LEO charged under the same circumstances, HankTroll. I would never do this, not unless I saw balls of ice causing life-threatening injury.
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
ProShooter wrote:
Umm... If he had not gotten out of the car with his gun drawn, he would not have been hit in the face. His car got hit by a single snowball and he went off. THEN the crowd turned its attention to him. It is not a felony assault on a LEO. He was off duty and in a POV.
ProShooter wrote:
Umm... If he had not gotten out of the car with his gun drawn, he would not have been hit in the face. His car got hit by a single snowball and he went off. THEN the crowd turned its attention to him. It is not a felony assault on a LEO. He was off duty and in a POV.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
TFred wrote:
TFred wrote:
Good post.
hunter45
Regular Member
imported post
TFred wrote:
Yeah, that's a good way to get yourself hurt or killed if you're a LEO - just assume someone is not dangerous by judging them by their appearance.
TFred wrote:
Yeah, that's a good way to get yourself hurt or killed if you're a LEO - just assume someone is not dangerous by judging them by their appearance.
ProShooter
Regular Member
imported post
TFred wrote:
Thank you TFred. Somehow the translation from my brain to typing missed what I intended to say - Had this happened in Va, they could have been charged....yadda, yadda, yadda.
This was actually discussed in another forum and that time I got the "brain to keyboard" function working correctly...
TFred wrote:
Thank you TFred. Somehow the translation from my brain to typing missed what I intended to say - Had this happened in Va, they could have been charged....yadda, yadda, yadda.
This was actually discussed in another forum and that time I got the "brain to keyboard" function working correctly...
ProShooter
Regular Member
imported post
Hawkflyer wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
TFred
Regular Member
imported post
ProShooter wrote:
TFred
ProShooter wrote:
I don't know anything about how or where to look up DC code but I would be surprised if there isn't a similar law over there. The section reference just didn't help in this case.TFred wrote:Thank you TFred. Somehow the translation from my brain to typing missed what I intended to say - Had this happened in Va, they could have been charged....yadda, yadda, yadda.
This was actually discussed in another forum and that time I got the "brain to keyboard" function working correctly...
TFred
ProShooter
Regular Member
imported post
TFred wrote:
Yeah I'm always thinking Virginia.
Read what I wrote over at the VGOF. It sounds better.
TFred wrote:
ProShooter wrote:I don't know anything about how or where to look up DC code but I would be surprised if there isn't a similar law over there. The section reference just didn't help in this case.TFred wrote:Thank you TFred. Somehow the translation from my brain to typing missed what I intended to say - Had this happened in Va, they could have been charged....yadda, yadda, yadda.
This was actually discussed in another forum and that time I got the "brain to keyboard" function working correctly...
TFred
Yeah I'm always thinking Virginia.
Read what I wrote over at the VGOF. It sounds better.
imported post
hunter45 wrote:
He took a prank and blew it up...and hopefully cost himself a career.
hunter45 wrote:
Geeze, I can' believe this. I'm usually on he other side of these things, but I agree with Fred. This guy didn't do anything right.
He took a prank and blew it up...and hopefully cost himself a career.
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
ProShooter wrote:
He stated this himself. His car was hit by a single snowball and he stopped and got out. THE LEO WHO CALMED HIM DOWN SAID THE SAME THING. Even the video we have should be enough to show even you that he HAD TO GET OUT OF THE CAR to be hit in hit face.
While you may feel it was appropriate to get out of the car and start waving a handgun around at a crowd of 75-100 people, those of us who use our big brain instead of our little one do not think so. There is no justification for this guys behavior.
ProShooter wrote:
[/quote]
He stated this himself. His car was hit by a single snowball and he stopped and got out. THE LEO WHO CALMED HIM DOWN SAID THE SAME THING. Even the video we have should be enough to show even you that he HAD TO GET OUT OF THE CAR to be hit in hit face.
While you may feel it was appropriate to get out of the car and start waving a handgun around at a crowd of 75-100 people, those of us who use our big brain instead of our little one do not think so. There is no justification for this guys behavior.
hunter45
Regular Member
imported post
peter nap wrote:
I'm not talking about the snowball incident. I'm just talking about how you don't assume someone is dangerous or not based on their appearance. Do I need to tell you what happens when you assume?
peter nap wrote:
I'm not talking about the snowball incident. I'm just talking about how you don't assume someone is dangerous or not based on their appearance. Do I need to tell you what happens when you assume?
SicSemperTyrannis
Regular Member
imported post
Hawkflyer wrote:
He stated this himself. His car was hit by a single snowball and he stopped and got out. THE LEO WHO CALMED HIM DOWN SAID THE SAME THING. Even the video we have should be enough to show even you that he HAD TO GET OUT OF THE CAR to be hit in hit face.
While you may feel it was appropriate to get out of the car and start waving a handgun around at a crowd of 75-100 people, those of us who use our big brain instead of our little one do not think so. There is no justification for this guys behavior.
Would ProShooter find the same behavior acceptable from an open carrier? Is it appropriate for an open carrier whose car gets hit by a few snowballs to stop his car and get out and then point a gun at people?This was an OFF-DUTY officer in his PERSONAL vehicle who CHOSE to stop and get out of his car to prove a point. Who escalated this situation? This madman could only be calmed down by a uniformed officer drawing a weapon and taking over the situation. I may have shot him if I was in that crowd after he pointed a loaded hun at people and appeared out of control. He should be charged and fired. I am horrified that any sworn law enforcement officer in Virginia would support this man. [/quote]
Hawkflyer wrote:
He stated this himself. His car was hit by a single snowball and he stopped and got out. THE LEO WHO CALMED HIM DOWN SAID THE SAME THING. Even the video we have should be enough to show even you that he HAD TO GET OUT OF THE CAR to be hit in hit face.
While you may feel it was appropriate to get out of the car and start waving a handgun around at a crowd of 75-100 people, those of us who use our big brain instead of our little one do not think so. There is no justification for this guys behavior.
Would ProShooter find the same behavior acceptable from an open carrier? Is it appropriate for an open carrier whose car gets hit by a few snowballs to stop his car and get out and then point a gun at people?This was an OFF-DUTY officer in his PERSONAL vehicle who CHOSE to stop and get out of his car to prove a point. Who escalated this situation? This madman could only be calmed down by a uniformed officer drawing a weapon and taking over the situation. I may have shot him if I was in that crowd after he pointed a loaded hun at people and appeared out of control. He should be charged and fired. I am horrified that any sworn law enforcement officer in Virginia would support this man. [/quote]
imported post
hunter45 wrote:
There was no need to draw his weapon. He had a radio (Watch the video, he dropped it twice) and could have called for backup if needed.
If this had happened to an OC'er in Va, everyone would have already tied thirteen knots on the noose, and rightfully so.
Sure he had a right to be mad. I think it's funny, but it wasn't my car either. But he doesn't have the privilege to behave the same as an outraged citizen.
He also didn't accomplish anything other than get himself plastered all over the national news and talked about on most of the gunboards in this country.
What's next for him, Tase Granny because she doesn't get out of the car fast enough?
She could be armed with a hatpin.
Naaa, this guy's gonna end up repoing cars for Sal's Auto Empire.
hunter45 wrote:
No matter how you cut it, he overreacted.
There was no need to draw his weapon. He had a radio (Watch the video, he dropped it twice) and could have called for backup if needed.
If this had happened to an OC'er in Va, everyone would have already tied thirteen knots on the noose, and rightfully so.
Sure he had a right to be mad. I think it's funny, but it wasn't my car either. But he doesn't have the privilege to behave the same as an outraged citizen.
He also didn't accomplish anything other than get himself plastered all over the national news and talked about on most of the gunboards in this country.
What's next for him, Tase Granny because she doesn't get out of the car fast enough?
She could be armed with a hatpin.
Naaa, this guy's gonna end up repoing cars for Sal's Auto Empire.