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Thread: Violence Policy Center Makes It Up as They Go Along — Again

  1. #1
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    Long time reader, first time poster. This is worth your time, and I hope in infuriates you as much as it did me

    Merry Christmas Everyone[/i]

    http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

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    Wow even if those are real which I doubt, that statistic is so minuscule when you throw it against others like Diabetes which according to the cdc killed over 70,000 people in a year. Perhaps we should only allow a very limited drive through eating license and cut down on the fast food permits to anyone but government employees.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Let's see the statistics for mass murders, murder/suicides, and single murders commited by LEO's...

    Or those same categories committed by registered Democrats, or people who are members of PETA, or people who subscribe to Sports Illustrated, the Washington Post, or Cable TV, or Budweiser drinkers, or people who drive Toyota's...

    Associating a crime with membership in an organization or inclusion in a certain activity is bad research. Association DOES NOT prove causality. This is one of the FIRST things you learn when you study Statistics and research Methods.

    Either these groups missed that part of class, or they KNOW how do do proper research and analysis, but are instead, INTENTIONALLY providing false information to the public.

    You do the math...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
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    How many of those LEOs were killed by someone who at one time in their life once held a CHP? How many private citizens killed where criminals where the CHP holder was shooting in defense of life? How many people have been killed by people without CHPs compared to with?

    Yeah you won't find the answer to those questions on their site...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Facts and figures to "prove" a preselected flawed conclusion does NOT make honest testimony or reporting.

    Wonder how many of them drove pickup trucks and answered to Bubba. :P

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Wonder how many of them drove pickup trucks and answered to Bubba. :P
    Now THAT'S an oxymoron - or a hypoxic maroon.

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    To quote Mark Twain:

    Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    - Mark Twain's Own Autobiography: The Chapters from the North American Review

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    VPC? Say no more.

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    They want to disarm us so that the violent criminals have free reign, hence the name Violence Policy Center.

    They really are grasping at straws with this argument.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I ask this question, How many police officers were killed by people with Tattoo's,

    Does this mean that a Tattoo makes someone a murderous menace to society and should also be outlined by the VPC?

    These anti-right people are all mentally-ill, but instead of seeking treatment for their mental problems they try to recruit people to believe in their own false reality.

    I wonder if any of these anti-firearm people has eve had their bacon saved by an armed citizen, and if they realized their mental illness after the fact.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    VPC? Say no more.
    Good response contained in this "inconvenient truth' by Dave Workman.
    New FBI report shows that in spite of record gun sales murgers have declined.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m12d22-Murder-rate-declined-while-gun-sales-boomed-An-inconvenient-truth?cid=examiner-email

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Number of young Filipino boys sodomized by Violence Policy Center members: 014
    Number of babies sacrificed to the dark lord by Violence Policy Center members: 006
    Number of radical Muslim terrorists financed by Violence Policy Center members: 025
    Number of puppies kicked by Violence Policy Center members: 014

    See, I can do it too! It's easy to post completely made up and nonsensical trite with absolutely no factual base and make it look all official.



    Of course by Filipino boys sodomized we REALLY mean alcoholic drinks consumed. By babies sacrificed to the dark lord we mean tobacco products used. By radical Muslim terrorists we really mean honest charities, puppies kicked should really mean car fender benders accidents.

    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I find it odd that the VPC(Brady) needs falsely appear neutral in order to mislead people. Meanwhile pro-liberty papers and data is open about the fact we are biased, but attempt to use objective information/numbers.

    If you are on the fence on an issue, I would think it obvious that honesty is valued and trusted more by people than suspicious behavior.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    I find it odd that the VPC(Brady) needs falsely appear neutral in order to mislead people. Meanwhile pro-liberty papers and data is open about the fact we are biased, but attempt to use objective information/numbers.

    If you are on the fence on an issue, I would think it obvious that honesty is valued and trusted more by people than suspicious behavior
    There is evidence that a form of mental illness, a paranoia, exists in people who fear inanimate objects, transfer their fear to others and believe the can relieve those fears by eliminating the object from the world.

    It doesn't work that way! They will find another object to fear. They can only feel sane when the are properly bent/warped. Crazy isn't it?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Here's what tells it all. This is supposedly a study with honest figures yet,
    "the actual numbers are most likely far higher".

    How does that make any since?

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    Are these folks trying to suggest that if there were no CHPs then 107 people would not have died?

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    mahkagari wrote:
    Are these folks trying to suggest that if there were no CHPs then 107 people would not have died?
    That's exactly what they are trying to insinuate. 16,137 Murders in the US in 2004, 66% of which were committed with a firearm. So...10,650 murders were committed with a firearm. So 1% of murders with a firearm was committed by CCH holders (assumingsimilar numbers for recent years). BUT WAIT...their research is from 2007 to present so that brings that percentage down to less than .5%. THOSE MURDEROUS CCW HOLDERS! :quirky

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offen...me/murder.html
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

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    RebelHell wrote:
    mahkagari wrote:
    Are these folks trying to suggest that if there were no CHPs then 107 people would not have died?
    That's exactly what they are trying to insinuate. 16,137 Murders in the US in 2004, 66% of which were committed with a firearm. So...10,650 murders were committed with a firearm. So 1% of murders with a firearm was committed by CCH holders (assumingsimilar numbers for recent years). BUT WAIT...their research is from 2007 to present so that brings that percentage down to less than .5%. THOSE MURDEROUS CCW HOLDERS! :quirky

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offen...me/murder.html
    Does anyone know how that relates to the non-CHP population? What percentage of persons without CHP's commit murder?
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member SAvage410's Avatar
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    OK -- just for grins, let's assume that the VPC's numbers are legit (I said assume folks ).

    I've heard Philip Van Cleave, VCDL president, state that there are approximately 6 million concealed cary permit holders in the US. 107 murders divided by 6 million is 0.00178333%. So we have 17 thousandths of one percent of permit holders who have "done a bad thing".

    Per the FBI, there were 14,180 murders in 2008 (source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offe.../homicide.html)

    In 2008, the estimated US population was 304,374,846 (source: http://www.census.gov/popest/nationa...09_ALLDATA.csv).

    The national "homicide percentage" then, is 0.00465873%. Comparing the two numbers, we find that the "CHP homicide rate" is 38.2793% (Say 38.3% for grins) of that of the overall rate for the US as a whole.

    Granted, murder is tragic, without question; still, it does not seem to me that we have a raging epidemic here, and especially not with CHP holders. Comments?

  20. #20
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Thank you SAvage410
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    fuzzy math: see Anglican University Global Warming practices (stolen emails)... the numbers don't lie, just the people using them.
    cheers - okboomer
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