South Sound OC Report........

DevinWKuska said:

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1130 OC into Berkley street chevron. very politely informed a LPD his gun holster was unclipped. He told me to mind my own business. Informed him that his holster being unsnapped gave me the impression he was showing intent. Fort lewis MP told him the same... he clipped his holster. (IMHO) if your holster has a handle strap and it is un done you are displaying aggression or intent to draw. I work on Ft. Lewis and most of the MPs I run into tell me they agree.

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Oops, someone didn't want to be thankful and take it in stride...

LMFAO @ the Ft. Lewis officer who told him the same thing!

J_Douglass said:

Went around with the wife today. First went to cabellas and looked around. Got a bore snake for my 1911. Then the wife wanted lunch so we went to panera bread down the street and ate. I saw a Wholesale Sports in the same shopping center and decided to check it out. Walked in and got 10ft past the registers when a woman called to me and said "sir, I need you to go to customer service and check your firearm" With a puzzled look on my face I asked "check?" "Yea, you know, go to customer service and check it, show them that its unloaded and get a ticket for it." she said. I said "why would I check it" since my wife was there and doesn't like the whole confrontation thing, I just decided they didn't have anything that I wanted, and left.

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Around 1230 @ Cabelas? I was walking out as you were coming in. Looked like a 92fs in passing, but don't generally stare at guys' beltlines..heh.

I was wearing a long sleeve red shirt and no its my Para GI expert, right time though.

.45ACPaddy said:

Oops, someone didn't want to be thankful and take it in stride...

LMFAO @ the Ft. Lewis officer who told him the same thing!

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Leave it to a military cat to "call it how he sees it" lol...i would'a been busting a gut!

DevinWKuska said:

Lol first of all I am surprised u guys(and gals) run into any problems with Open Carry. I am new to this forum (FInd yourself some 9mm Goose?) got this forum from Goose who called me a unicorn to his wife(sorry I am married) and told me about this forum. SO here is my report for 2/4/2011

0700 OC in 176th+ Meridian starbucks no issues( well I should mention I know all the employees)
0730 Fred Meyer(176th + Meridian) for cigarettes and a bagel no issues.
0745 Conidered OC into my doctors office(Sunrise Plaza Puyallup) but didnt... your suppose to get better... not make people worse right?
0900 OC in Cabelas(lacey)... really wish they would stop asking me to get another card... got denied after I applied for my 3rd... go figure.
1130 OC into Berkley street chevron. very politely informed a LPD his gun holster was unclipped. He told me to mind my own business. Informed him that his holster being unsnapped gave me the impression he was showing intent. Fort lewis MP told him the same... he clipped his holster. (IMHO) if your holster has a handle strap and it is un done you are displaying aggression or intent to draw. I work on Ft. Lewis and most of the MPs I run into tell me they agree.
1600+ OC Surplus Ammo and Arms(lakewood) ... no problems (Met Goose)
1730ish OC Wells Fargo 176 + meridian no issues
1800ish OC Papa Murpheys 176th + meridian no issues
1830 OC Winco Foods off of 176th + meridian no issues not even a glance

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WELCOME aboard! I remember you. I did find some new rounds. I got the winchester 147gr T-Series! Since my Hydra Shoks are LE only now GRRRR

Now you're a forum member, but you were most definately a Unicorn Spotting! It's not often I run into a fellow OCer that isn't a forum member!

Lakewood Surplus Ammo & Arms - No issues

KFC Bridgeport - Took my dad also. Everyone was whooping and hollering about us carrying. Management controlled everyone and told them to relax and not harass us. We're legal, and spending money

The Marksman - Bought a new gun, 2 more on the way very soon!

J_Douglass said:

I was wearing a long sleeve red shirt and no its my Para GI expert, right time though.

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Yes, that's it. It appeared you and your wife were discussing something, I didn't want to interrupt.

I will shamelessly admit that your wife drew my attention first... (That's a compliment, BTW, heh)

It looked like a black leather holster, but I could be wrong on that too

M1Gunr said:

The ONLY reason you should be "checking" your weapon is if you are fitting it for accessories. Otherwise it stays in the holster. Looks like I need to call the VP again and let him know their folks need refresher training.

A letter has been sent to clear up the issue, awaiting reply....

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Yea, I didn't feel like getting into it cause the wife was there and like I said she is weary about me confronting people with my gun on.

NavyLT said:

You might want to rethink that opinion. According to your theory, anyone with a holster with an unsnapped strap could then be arrested and guilty of RCW 9.41.270. Is that what you really want to happen? How would you feel if the officer saw your retention strap that had come undone and wrote you a ticket for violating 9.41.270, and if convicted lose your CPL? Do you really think an unsnapped retention strap rises to that level of concern?

What about people who carry in holsters without retention? Are they showing intent?

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I had the same thought....
I would not say anything to the officer. Why? What would it prove or accomplish?
As to the opinion of the MP, who cares, he is on federal land/property under very different rules.

Look at it from the point of a freeman, a citizen of Washington and the several states.

Good points about "intent" - but I would still probably mention it to the officer.

Why?

Because they are uniformed public employees, and I expect them to be properly turned out.

I'd also tell them if their fly were unzipped, or their uniform shirt unbuttoned, or their handcuff case were unsnapped, etc.

If nothing else, that sort of sloppiness in simple uniform dress at the very least hints at a general sloppiness, not only in dress, but possibly in safety and even thought.

As a civilian, we should also pay attention to the details of our presentation, but as a uniformed public servant it should be (and probably is) a requirement of their job.

(As to intent, I would question that implication in the general case, BUT, if the officer were to pull a Birk, the fact that they carried their weapon unlimbered without cause should definitely bring into question their initial intent in any contact...)

IANAL and YMMV.

OC At Sprint. Lakewood town center no incidents.
OC AT STARBUCKS 100th lakewood , must have been a lot of off duty cops or something probably 25 open carrying. Great group of guys.
OC at big 5 sports lakewood with some of those guys, no issue.
OC at Calls Jr. No issue.
Only issue was girl friend asking why it took so long to go pay my Sprint bill.... :monkey

Well we left the starbucks meet then went to target in the town center. Got back to my side of town and went to the fred meyers on 176th and meridian, no issues. Then went to safeway right by my house on 136th and meridian again, no issues.

Tomas said:

Good points about "intent" - but I would still probably mention it to the officer.

Why?

Because they are uniformed public employees, and I expect them to be properly turned out.

I'd also tell them if their fly were unzipped, or their uniform shirt unbuttoned, or their handcuff case were unsnapped, etc.

If nothing else, that sort of sloppiness in simple uniform dress at the very least hints at a general sloppiness, not only in dress, but possibly in safety and even thought.

As a civilian, we should also pay attention to the details of our presentation, but as a uniformed public servant it should be (and probably is) a requirement of their job.

(As to intent, I would question that implication in the general case, BUT, if the officer were to pull a Birk, the fact that they carried their weapon unlimbered without cause should definitely bring into question their initial intent in any contact...)

IANAL and YMMV.

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I agree with only mentioning it because of the appearance issue, and not the intent issue.

Met up with a bunch of great guys in Lakewood. After that I went to Spanaway Walmart to get some oil for the suburban and sling swivels for my shotgun along with a set of earmuffs. No more plugs for me! Then I went to my favorite Starbucks in Spanaway for some more coffee for me and the wife.

OC lakewood liquor store. Lots of strange looks. But nothing said. I decide to test it after our conversation about previous experience in other thread. I did notice the sign that said minors must be accompanied by parents was missing. Strange.

OC lakewood safeway, no issue.

Lakewood Starbucks - UNICORNS!! Everywhere

Big 5 - Techno, My Dad, and myself went to check out a few things.

Cabela's - Ani bought herself a new toy! Congratz Ani on your FIRST firearm purchase!
Bersa Thunder .380 W/ Crimson Trace!



Jack in the Box (Lacey) - Lunch Time

Wholesale Sports - I have found a .45 ACP I want http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Px4_Storm

My phone doesn't take the best pictures but she'll be at the meet on Saturday @ Federal Way if you wish to see it then! Otherwise, we're shooting at Champion tomorrow around 11am (or a tad earlier)

Goose said:

Lakewood Starbucks - UNICORNS!! Everywhere

Big 5 - Techno, My Dad, and myself went to check out a few things.

Cabela's - Ani bought herself a new toy! Congratz Ani on your FIRST firearm purchase!
Bersa Thunder .380 W/ Crimson Trace!

View attachment 5152

Jack in the Box (Lacey) - Lunch Time

A great day all around

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Yes, Congrats Ani! Superb!

Thanks Gogodawgs, can't wait to take it in public tomarrow. I am very excited to fire my own gun now. I will let you all know how our day goes tomarrow when we get home.

NavyLT said:

You might want to rethink that opinion. According to your theory, anyone with a holster with an unsnapped strap could then be arrested and guilty of RCW 9.41.270. Is that what you really want to happen? How would you feel if the officer saw your retention strap that had come undone and wrote you a ticket for violating 9.41.270, and if convicted lose your CPL? Do you really think an unsnapped retention strap rises to that level of concern?

What about people who carry in holsters without retention? Are they showing intent?

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I agree your point has some merit. However in profesions where firearms are necessary there is a generally written and unwritten rules of conduct. FOr instance in the military having a weapon with the safety switch to the "F" position while in a non-hostile area is considered un acceptable and warrants intent.

Safeguarding a Military Issued Gun
•According to the Army, all military personnel authorized to carry a firearm are required to safeguard their weapon. They are responsible for ensuring that their gun is not lost, stolen and that they are in compliance with the regulations set forth by the Department of Defense. With the exception of crime investigators, all military personnel are required to turn in their gun to a designated area, where it will be stored. Military personnel may fire their weapon to protect themselves, or anyone else from serious bodily harm or any threat against life. Rules state that prior to discharging their weapon, they must give an order to stop. Warning shots are prohibited. When firing their weapon, they should make sure not to jeopardize the safety of innocent bystanders. Weapons should not be unholstered, unless there is an to intent to shoot.


Read more: Military Gun Safety Rules | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6762153_military-gun-safety-rules.html#ixzz1DEvxyEDa

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If a holster has a safety strap then the strap should be clipped. My holster does not have a strap therefore I do not carry "one in the hole" and I take care to ensure my safty is always on. Perphaps my call was a bit bold and un called for but when I deal with MP and military all day gun safety gets ingrained in your brain.

RE: RCW 9.41.270 the line between Legal OC and display of aggression can get sticky. I agree this is not good, nor what I am looking for. I think RCW 9.41.270 needs to get an overhaul, as it seems a persons perspective can almost overide facts. I will give you an example. While in 176th + Meridian starbucks I have seen police standing in line (strap clasped ) with their hand or fist resting on the grip and other hand on their hip. Is this display of aggresion? Or simply resting a hand on something convienent? Let me clarify. his hand was not gripping his GLock, nor was his finger on the trigger. more his palm lightlyresting on the handle at his side.

All that to say this. I see your point and agree with you for the most part. I do feel my comment to that LPD officer was fair enough. I stated I was polite, and stated I felt it was an act of aggresion. If I were say.. in a bank and the bank manager said me(politely, and quietly) OCing made the tellers un-easy I would conceal it. I would not take offense or feel my rights were being infringed upon. For the same reason I dont smoke(yeah I know its bad for me) in my personal car when with my wife. its my car, and she says she doesnt care. However I feel its a matter of respect.

On a side note I would like to show you this.

http://police.cityoflakewood.us/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=15
What respect or integrity was shown by responding with "Mind your own business!"?

Ani said:

Thanks Gogodawgs, can't wait to take it in public tomarrow. I am very excited to fire my own gun now. I will let you all know how our day goes tomarrow when we get home.

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Ani, congratulations! That smile is ear to ear, and should be! I hope you have a ball shooting it tomorrow.