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Another officer involved shooting.....

slowfiveoh

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kito109654 wrote:
antispam540 wrote:
kito109654 wrote:
This is kind of ridiculous. The frequency of these shootings blows my mind.
The frequency of shootings involving non-police is much higher. This only seems high because we're not seeing any number to compare it with.

It's no more shocking, mortifying, or upsetting for a policeman/woman to be killed than it is for a non-police person to be killed. If our boys in blue treated every act of violence as if it were against a cop, maybe we'd actually get somewhere. Too often there's a double standard.

I don't think I feel the same about that... when police are specifically targeted like this, it's an attack against organization and it's an attempt to scare people. The frequency bothers me.

Police are not f#$%ing robots, your ideals don't apply. They are human, just like you. Do you make a big fuss when Joe Blow gets shot? Nope, because you don't know him. What if you're mom was shot?

When a cop is targeted, every other cop feels like a family member was targeted and feels what you feel if you're family were to be targeted.

Some of you guys blow my mind with your inability to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Wake up.

The answer is "procedure".

You don't have to know joe blo's mom. You don't have to be acquanted with a victim. You don't have to feel personal justification to put personal emphasis behind a particular case.

You operate within the role as a LEO, with specific procedures. The role of a "Peace Officer" does not have to be understood from the perspective of "their shoes". It has to be understood from the perspective of law. Period.

You made the statement that they are not "robots", emphasizing the humanity of their role. Yep. They are humans. For that purpose I tip my hat and say "How you doing today?", or "Have a good day officer!". If they find it hard or difficult to function in their role after a fellow officer got shot, I would hate to see how hard it is for them to function as a service member of our military in an active combat zone.
 

suntzu

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kito109654 wrote:
antispam540 wrote:
kito109654 wrote:
This is kind of ridiculous. The frequency of these shootings blows my mind.
The frequency of shootings involving non-police is much higher. This only seems high because we're not seeing any number to compare it with.

It's no more shocking, mortifying, or upsetting for a policeman/woman to be killed than it is for a non-police person to be killed. If our boys in blue treated every act of violence as if it were against a cop, maybe we'd actually get somewhere. Too often there's a double standard.

I don't think I feel the same about that... when police are specifically targeted like this, it's an attack against organization and it's an attempt to scare people. The frequency bothers me.
Actually this isn't true--it is what everyone wants you to believe, but just because society/government wants you to believe it does not necessarily make it true.
 

suntzu

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kito109654 wrote:
antispam540 wrote:
kito109654 wrote:
This is kind of ridiculous. The frequency of these shootings blows my mind.
The frequency of shootings involving non-police is much higher. This only seems high because we're not seeing any number to compare it with.

It's no more shocking, mortifying, or upsetting for a policeman/woman to be killed than it is for a non-police person to be killed. If our boys in blue treated every act of violence as if it were against a cop, maybe we'd actually get somewhere. Too often there's a double standard.
Police are not f#$%ing robots, your ideals don't apply. They are human, just like you. Do you make a big fuss when Joe Blow gets shot? Nope, because you don't know him. What if you're mom was shot?

Some of you guys blow my mind with your inability to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Wake up.
No, they are not robots--they are human beings and should be treated as such. The problem begins when they try to intimidate people and violating their rights. They want to be treated like people--they should remember to do the same to everyone else. Show respect and you get it--don't show it, try to make things up as you go along, try to harass and intimidate the people and try to violate our rights simply because you have a holstered gun and they should not be surprised when they see themselves posted on youtube, and have lawsuits and complaints filed against them.

I can put myself in other peoples shoes easily enough--but I will say again, just like with that officer in DC who pulled the gun on the people who threw snowballs at him--if they are THAT afraid--they should find another line of work more suitable to them.

And I agree fully--the death of a police officer IS tragic but NOT because they are "police officers"---but rather because they are human beings. They are not special, they should not receive special treatment, they should be held to the same standards they would hold us to, and should have to obey the exact same laws they expect us to obey, and if they either cannot or are unwilling to do so--they should most definitely not work in law enforcement.

Take a read on any police forum right now and you can get a feel for how we are seen. They act like we are the enemy. They act like they are at war with the people, they might do better in Iraq than they do here if that is how they feel--considering they act like they are at war.

I don't have a problem with LE--I do however have a problem with their abuse and their double standards.
 

slowfiveoh

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Trigger Dr wrote:
I think some of you should go back and read the rules especially #6

That a post may be removed for any reason?



Are you trying to state #5, which says:

"5) While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, sex, or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer). "

Nobody is bashing here. Can you please show me where you think rule #5 or #6 are being violated?
 

Ajetpilot

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suntzu wrote:
Take a read on any police forum right now and you can get a feel for how we are seen. They act like we are the enemy. They act like they are at war with the people, they might do better in Iraq than they do here if that is how they feel--considering they act like they are at war.


Can you pleasegive us a link to one or more of these police forums (or fora, if you prefer)?
 

kwiebe

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I read a witness account to this latest incident (a neighbor). She was quoted as saying she stopped counting after 50, the number of units that responded after the shooting.

50+?

I know that the tendency of some will be to point out "the difference" with an officer down situation (which is why I posted in this thread). But seriously, more than 50 cars to this scene?

Probably blasphemy to suggest it, but similar stuff happened with the Clemmons case.

Just trying to be ultra-objective here and kinda scratching my head regarding proportional response issues. At some point, don't you have to say, "OK, we kinda went overboard?" I mean, can we afford to send such a high percentage of our public safety employees to a single incident just because it was another cop?

I'll be generous and say "ten units." But over 50?
 

sudden valley gunner

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It is sad. My heart goes out to the families of the slain, but my heart goes out the same to families of our fallen soilders, or to any other victims of sensless murder.

I see no bashing here, just frank open discussion. How is saying the life of an LEO has no greater value than anyone else bashing?
 

Iron_Colonel

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Too close to Olympia...
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It is a very unfortunate incident, and there is absolutely no excuse for these types of actions. It appears another criminal got hold of a gun somehow. As someone mentioned earlier, anti-gun people will probably try to use this incident to further argue their bills to take away, ban the sales of, or whatever their agenda is.

As it has been said many times before, it isn't the gun that kills people, it is people that do. The gun is an inanimate object, and it is the irresponsible and bad people behind them that commit these heinous, and terrible acts. It was put rather simply to me today by a co-worker of mine when I mentioned to her the wounded officers. She said something to the affect of, "Its not gun control that needs to happen, its idiot control." A rather simple statement, but holds validity.

Hopefully these guys will pull through, and can spend some time with their families for the holidays, even if it is in the hospital. It will still mean they are here.
 

kito109654

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slowfiveoh wrote:
The answer is "procedure".

You don't have to know joe blo's mom. You don't have to be acquanted with a victim. You don't have to feel personal justification to put personal emphasis behind a particular case.

You operate within the role as a LEO, with specific procedures. The role of a "Peace Officer" does not have to be understood from the perspective of "their shoes". It has to be understood from the perspective of law. Period.

You made the statement that they are not "robots", emphasizing the humanity of their role. Yep. They are humans. For that purpose I tip my hat and say "How you doing today?", or "Have a good day officer!". If they find it hard or difficult to function in their role after a fellow officer got shot, I would hate to see how hard it is for them to function as a service member of our military in an active combat zone.

Maybe you don't realize it...you're dismissing emotion as if having that personal connection doesn't make it different. It is different, for the officer.

suntzu wrote:
Actually this isn't true--it is what everyone wants you to believe, but just because society/government wants you to believe it does not necessarily make it true.

I don't interact with the "everyone, society, or government" that you speak of. I say more than, "hello" and, "goodbye" to maybe 10 people.


suntzu wrote:
No, they are not robots--they are human beings and should be treated as such.
The problem begins when they try to intimidate people and violating their rights. They want to be treated like people--they should remember to do the same to everyone else. Show respect and you get it--don't show it, try to make things up as you go along, try to harass and intimidate the people and try to violate our rights simply because you have a holstered gun and they should not be surprised when they see themselves posted on youtube, and have lawsuits and complaints filed against them.

I can put myself in other peoples shoes easily enough--but I will say again, just like with that officer in DC who pulled the gun on the people who threw snowballs at him--if they are THAT afraid--they should find another line of work more suitable to them.

And I agree fully--the death of a police officer IS tragic but NOT because they are "police officers"---but rather because they are human beings. They are not special, they should not receive special treatment, they should be held to the same standards they would hold us to, and should have to obey the exact same laws they expect us to obey, and if they either cannot or are unwilling to do so--they should most definitely not work in law enforcement.

Take a read on any police forum right now and you can get a feel for how we are seen. They act like we are the enemy. They act like they are at war with the people, they might do better in Iraq than they do here if that is how they feel--considering they act like they are at war.

I don't have a problem with LE--I do however have a problem with their abuse and their double standards.
That's a different conversation, in my opinion. That is not what I was talking about or referring to at all.
 

amzbrady

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I think the media needs to stop sensationalizing these shootings so much and try to get the facts right the first time and then move on. I think the criminals are thriving on this attention. I think back to the recent shooting in Federal Way, two cops responded and both returned fire andshot someone. First report was there was an exchange of gunfire. second report stated they were looking into whether the perp even shot at them, or if he just pulled the gun. I watched that on Q13 news. They were unsure even if one or both of the officers shot at the guy??? Cant they count bullets? Havent heard anything since though.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Officer-involved-shooting-in-Federal-Way-79735587.html
 

Trigger Dr

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Trigger Dr wrote:
I think some of you should go back and read the rules especially #6
My appology, Wrong Forum, Wrong web site. MY BAD:banghead::cuss:
 

gogodawgs

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As seen on the comments section following another ignorant journalist from the Seattle Times.... Hooray to the readers, there are many pro statements.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2010572142_danny23.html

"he does have convictions of domestic violence"

RCW 9.41.040
Unlawful possession of firearms
...
(2)(a) A person, whether an adult or juvenile, is guilty of the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm in the second degree, if the person... has in his or her control any firearm:

(i) After having previously been convicted [of]... any of the following crimes when committed by one family or household member against another, committed on or after July 1, 1993: Assault in the fourth degree, coercion, stalking, reckless endangerment, criminal trespass in the first degree, or violation of the provisions of a protection order or no-contact order restraining the person or excluding the person from a residence

DV Coonvictions = No Guns under current law. Seems like he already was prohibited from owning them.
 

joeroket

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Everett, Washington, USA
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Poosharker wrote:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/80232017.html

Story is updated. Officer died at hospital.

Kent Mundell was taken off life support Monday afternoon at Harborview Medical Center, officials said. He was 44.

There is no god damn excuse for domestic violence. The suspect paid the price with his life. Unfortunately so did an officer responding to the call.

My prayers and deepest sympathy go out to his widow and children.
 

FMCDH

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Poosharker wrote:
Updated. See OP
Death by cop it would appear.

No one in their right mind opens up on two police offices at near point blank range and expects to live through it.

My prayers go out to the officer's families. :(
 

killchain

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antispam540 wrote:
kito109654 wrote:
This is kind of ridiculous. The frequency of these shootings blows my mind.
The frequency of shootings involving non-police is much higher. This only seems high because we're not seeing any number to compare it with.

It's no more shocking, mortifying, or upsetting for a policeman/woman to be killed than it is for a non-police person to be killed. If our boys in blue treated every act of violence as if it were against a cop, maybe we'd actually get somewhere. Too often there's a double standard.
OCDO has had multiple fundraisers for the families of deceased Police Officers, even though half of you swear your paychecks that they're carrying pounds of evidence to plant on us, want to fight and deliberately violate our rights for the simple principle of it.

And you wonder why the open carriers get targeted.
 
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