Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: So much for SA

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Michigan, ,
    Posts
    25

    Post imported post

    Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs

    Man robbed in the Centreville area

    About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured. The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.


  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,416

    Post imported post

    With all due respect, this sounds just like the one that's repeated throughout the web every once in a while that has been debunked.

    Got a cite for the news article?

  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    Old news, but it is something I bring up from time to time.

    OCing is a deterrent, but you still need to be mindful of your surroundings. Taking a weary eyed walk in the middle of the night/very early morning is not necessarily a smart idea, regardless of who you are and what level of armament you might be carrying.

    If you're in the middle of no where with no witnesses, anyone you see walking down the street should be regarded as a potential threat to look out for.

    He screwed up, and it should be taken as an important lesson for everyone that OC's. OCing does not make you immortal and immune to criminal attack. The way you conduct yourself in your daily activities is usually 3 times more important than carrying.

    One more thing I want to point out is that this is the one and only instance of a non uniformed OCer being robbed in modern times. So it's still very rare, but it can happen.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  4. #4
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    ghostrider wrote:
    With all due respect, this sounds just like the one that's repeated throughout the web every once in a while that has been debunked.

    Got a cite for the news article?
    Even if it happened, so what?

    Instead of our being able to say:

    "There has never been a reported case of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"...

    ...well, we'd just have to change it to:

    "There has been only one reported case of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"

    Same-O, same-O...



  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,416

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    With all due respect, this sounds just like the one that's repeated throughout the web every once in a while that has been debunked.

    Got a cite for the news article?
    Even if it happened, so what?

    Instead of our being able to say:

    "There has never been a reported case of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"...

    ...well, we'd just have to change it to:

    "There has been only one reported case of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"

    Same-O, same-O...

    Yes.

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    RSF wrote:
    Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs

    Man robbed in the Centreville area

    About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured. The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.
    Fabricated. This has been going around for years. The place and state changes in each story.

    Again while it could happen you have a better chance of being in a car accident yet most of us still drive.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Not on this website, USA
    Posts
    2,482

    Post imported post

    Here are the only links I could find

    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/...wtonPatton.htm

    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...d-his-gun.html

    http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_...f_his_gun.html

    Still have yet to find an official link. I notice that there is no year stated on any of these "posts". This makes me wonder if this is true or not. Even if it was, it sounds like he was not very aware of his surroundings. I would assume that at 4am it would be pretty quite outside. Also, why didn't his dog realize someone was sneaking up on him? Sounds fishy to me.

  8. #8
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Michigander wrote:
    One more thing I want to point out is that this is the one and only instance of a non uniformed OCer being robbed in modern times. So it's still very rare, but it can happen.
    There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.

    UTOC's SA was AWOL and dnf that time...


    How many times it happens in the future or has happened, (LEO 229 reported another one, IIRC) really doesn't matter from a rhetorical point of view. We can just keep changing 'X' in the statement:

    "There has been only__X___ reported case(s) of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"


    Let's face it, if we say the same thing over and over and over, we can still spin the point to our advantage...

  9. #9
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,251

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    RSF wrote:
    Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs

    Man robbed in the Centreville area

    About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured. The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.
    Fabricated. This has been going around for years. The place and state changes in each story.

    Again while it could happen you have a better chance of being in a car accident yet most of us still drive.
    Even a fabrication can remind us to always be status yellow when we're out and about!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  10. #10
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,251

    Post imported post

    RSF wrote:
    Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs

    Man robbed in the Centreville area

    About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured. The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.
    Where in Michigan you from RSF?
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Michigan, ,
    Posts
    25

    Post imported post

    Point being this time of year keep your head up

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy. And you were there to witness the totality of the circumstances?

    UTOC's SA was AWOL and dnf that time... See above.

    How many times it happens in the future or has happened, (LEO 229 reported another one, IIRC) really doesn't matter from a rhetorical point of view. We can just keep changing 'X' in the statement:

    "There has been only__X___ reported case(s) of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"


    Let's face it, if we say the same thing over and over and over, we can still spin the point to our advantage...
    :quirky

  13. #13
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.
    Grabs by security and police happen from time to time. I've been disarmed by ass hole felon cops myself.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Macomb County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    RSF wrote:
    Point being this time of year keep your head up
    Doesnt matter the time of year or anything specific. Everyone should continually keep their head up. If they choose to OC everyone should be paying close attention to their surroundings.

    I dont see the point of posting an incident that happened 4 years ago. Seems kind of unnecessary.

  15. #15
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    Post imported post

    It NEVER happened... this is a regurgitation with some details changed of a proved false incident where the person (who supposedly was attacked) got charged with a false police report.

    It is fine to say that SA is important but to use an outright lie to reinforce it well that seems a bit silly.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    autosurgeon wrote:
    It NEVER happened... this is a regurgitation with some details changed of a proved false incident where the person (who supposedly was attacked) got charged with a false police report.

    It is fine to say that SA is important but to use an outright lie to reinforce it well that seems a bit silly.
    Isn't thatsomething the Brady Bunch has been doing all along?

  17. #17
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    Post imported post

    Yep standard liberal tactic... heck it's even in the playbook!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  18. #18
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Michigander wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.
    Grabs by security and police happen from time to time. I've been disarmed by ass hole felon cops myself.


    Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

    If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

    It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

    HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission©:

    It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

    HAOGTAMGWP© always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.






  19. #19
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.
    Grabs by security and police happen from time to time. I've been disarmed by ass hole felon cops myself.


    Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

    If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

    It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

    HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission©:

    It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

    HAOGTAMGWP© always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.




    What if you are injured (at hospital unconscious)or dead, can we take possession of it then? Depending on the gun I may take it under those circumstances.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    SNIP
    Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

    If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

    It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

    HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission©:

    It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

    HAOGTAMGWP© always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.




    LOL

    No, I think what's being said is that most who OC will not resist whenuniformed personnel, such as mall ninjas and LE,attempt to remove the pistol from its holster. This is, exponentially, different than a BG grab...don't you think so HTK?

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,416

    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    SNIP
    Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

    If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

    It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

    HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission©:

    It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

    HAOGTAMGWP© always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.




    LOL

    No, I think what's being said is that most who OC will not resist whenuniformed personnel, such as mall ninjas and LE,attempt to remove the pistol from its holster. This is, exponentially, different than a BG grab...don't you think so HTK?
    That's what I was thinking, although condition white is condition white.

    I don't think I would let a security guard touch my gun. If it isn't a cop, then hands off.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ecorse, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    113

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.
    Grabs by security and police happen from time to time. I've been disarmed by ass hole felon cops myself.


    Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

    If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

    It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

    HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission©:

    It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

    HAOGTAMGWP© always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.




    Your axiom is a pleonasm. It is redundant to say that something is not permissable without your permission.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    schoolcraft , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    32

    Post imported post

    security gaurd grab my gun i grab my back up gun

  24. #24
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,251

    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    SNIP
    Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

    If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

    It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

    HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission©:

    It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

    HAOGTAMGWP© always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.




    LOL

    No, I think what's being said is that most who OC will not resist whenuniformed personnel, such as mall ninjas and LE,attempt to remove the pistol from its holster. This is, exponentially, different than a BG grab...don't you think so HTK?
    I can guarantee if someone tried to grab my gun from behind,they would have the full force of my gun hand hitting their jaw as my left hand recovers my gun.Thats the legal thing to do wether it's a LEO or not.If it's a LEO,won't he be supprised!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  25. #25
    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Redford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    424

    Post imported post

    freightman360 wrote:
    security gaurd grab my gun i grab my back up gun
    Security guard grabs ahold of my gun then he his looking into the barrel of my 380. END OF DISCUSSION!If I happen to be distracted to the point of little or no SA and someone gets that close to me to grab it I am taking that as a threat to my life and in these situations you have split second. Grab BUG and do what ya gotta do.

    My only worry is what will be the after math if some under cover theft prevention PUKE come by you and grabs your primary and you turn and shoot him with BUG. I wonder if there would be charges filed.

    I wonder if these idiots ever think of this very fact that they are very very close to being shot. And if I need to use the 380 instead of my 45....he is gonna receive several shots.....just sayin....
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •