So much for SA

RSF · Dec 22, 2009

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Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs

Man robbed in the Centreville area

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured. The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

ghostrider · Dec 22, 2009

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With all due respect, this sounds just like the one that's repeated throughout the web every once in a while that has been debunked.

Got a cite for the news article?

Michigander · Dec 22, 2009

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Old news, but it is something I bring up from time to time.

OCing is a deterrent, but you still need to be mindful of your surroundings. Taking a weary eyed walk in the middle of the night/very early morning is not necessarily a smart idea, regardless of who you are and what level of armament you might be carrying.

If you're in the middle of no where with no witnesses, anyone you see walking down the street should be regarded as a potential threat to look out for.

He screwed up, and it should be taken as an important lesson for everyone that OC's. OCing does not make you immortal and immune to criminal attack. The way you conduct yourself in your daily activities is usually 3 times more important than carrying.

One more thing I want to point out is that this is the one and only instance of a non uniformed OCer being robbed in modern times. So it's still very rare, but it can happen.

HankT · Dec 22, 2009

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ghostrider wrote:

With all due respect, this sounds just like the one that's repeated throughout the web every once in a while that has been debunked.

Got a cite for the news article?

Even if it happened, so what?

Instead of our being able to say:

"There has never been a reported case of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"...

...well, we'd just have to change it to:

"There has been only one reported case of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"

Same-O, same-O...

:uhoh:

ghostrider · Dec 22, 2009

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HankT wrote:

ghostrider wrote:

With all due respect, this sounds just like the one that's repeated throughout the web every once in a while that has been debunked.

Got a cite for the news article?

Click to expand...

Even if it happened, so what?

Instead of our being able to say:

"There has never been a reported case of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"...

...well, we'd just have to change it to:

"There has been only one reported case of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"

Same-O, same-O...

:uhoh:

Yes.

Venator · Dec 22, 2009

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RSF wrote:

Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs

Man robbed in the Centreville area

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured. The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Fabricated. This has been going around for years. The place and state changes in each story.

Again while it could happen you have a better chance of being in a car accident yet most of us still drive.

T Vance · Dec 22, 2009

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Here are the only links I could find

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/reports/reports2006/073106robNewtonPatton.htm

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/5972-man-open-carrying-robbed-his-gun.html

http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_issues_and_self_defense/66394-man_ocing_robbed_of_his_gun.html

Still have yet to find an official link. I notice that there is no year stated on any of these "posts". This makes me wonder if this is true or not. Even if it was, it sounds like he was not very aware of his surroundings. I would assume that at 4am it would be pretty quite outside. Also, why didn't his dog realize someone was sneaking up on him? Sounds fishy to me.

HankT · Dec 22, 2009

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Michigander wrote:

One more thing I want to point out is that this is the one and only instance of a non uniformed OCer being robbed in modern times. So it's still very rare, but it can happen.

There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.

UTOC's SA was AWOL and dnf that time...

How many times it happens in the future or has happened, (LEO 229 reported another one, IIRC) really doesn't matter from a rhetorical point of view. We can just keep changing 'X' in the statement:

"There has been only__X___ reported case(s) of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"

Let's face it, if we say the same thing over and over and over, we can still spin the point to our advantage...

Haman J.T. · Dec 22, 2009

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Venator wrote:

RSF wrote:

Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs

Man robbed in the Centreville area

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured. The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Click to expand...

Fabricated. This has been going around for years. The place and state changes in each story.

Again while it could happen you have a better chance of being in a car accident yet most of us still drive.

Even a fabrication can remind us to always be status yellow when we're out and about!

Haman J.T. · Dec 22, 2009

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RSF wrote:

Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs

Man robbed in the Centreville area

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured. The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Where in Michigan you from RSF?

RSF · Dec 22, 2009

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Point being this time of year keep your head up

SpringerXDacp · Dec 22, 2009

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HankT wrote:

There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy. And you were there to witness the totality of the circumstances?

UTOC's SA was AWOL and dnf that time... See above.

How many times it happens in the future or has happened, (LEO 229 reported another one, IIRC) really doesn't matter from a rhetorical point of view. We can just keep changing 'X' in the statement:

"There has been only__X___ reported case(s) of an OCer having his gun taken away from him by an attacker!"

Let's face it, if we say the same thing over and over and over, we can still spin the point to our advantage...

:quirky

Michigander · Dec 22, 2009

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HankT wrote:

There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.

Grabs by security and police happen from time to time. I've been disarmed by ass hole felon cops myself.

mikestilly · Dec 22, 2009

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RSF wrote:

Point being this time of year keep your head up

Doesnt matter the time of year or anything specific. Everyone should continually keep their head up. If they choose to OC everyone should be paying close attention to their surroundings.

I dont see the point of posting an incident that happened 4 years ago. Seems kind of unnecessary.

autosurgeon · Dec 22, 2009

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It NEVER happened... this is a regurgitation with some details changed of a proved false incident where the person (who supposedly was attacked) got charged with a false police report.

It is fine to say that SA is important but to use an outright lie to reinforce it well that seems a bit silly.

SpringerXDacp · Dec 22, 2009

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autosurgeon wrote:

It NEVER happened... this is a regurgitation with some details changed of a proved false incident where the person (who supposedly was attacked) got charged with a false police report.

It is fine to say that SA is important but to use an outright lie to reinforce it well that seems a bit silly.

Isn't thatsomething the Brady Bunch has been doing all along? :lol:

autosurgeon · Dec 22, 2009

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Yep standard liberal tactic... heck it's even in the playbook!

HankT · Dec 22, 2009

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Michigander wrote:

HankT wrote:

There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.

Click to expand...

Grabs by security and police happen from time to time. I've been disarmed by ass hole felon cops myself.

Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission[suP]©[/suP]:

It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

HAOGTAMGWP[suP]©[/suP] always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.

Venator · Dec 22, 2009

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HankT wrote:

Michigander wrote:

HankT wrote:

There was alsothe case of an OCDO member (UTOC44-45?) who had his OC'd gungrabbed out of his holster, clean as a whistle, before he knew what was going on, at a retail store by a security guy.

Click to expand...

Grabs by security and police happen from time to time. I've been disarmed by ass hole felon cops myself.

Click to expand...

Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission[suP]©[/suP]:

It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

HAOGTAMGWP[suP]©[/suP] always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.

What if you are injured (at hospital unconscious)or dead, can we take possession of it then? Depending on the gun I may take it under those circumstances.

SpringerXDacp · Dec 22, 2009

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HankT wrote:

SNIP
Are you saying that a grab is not....a grab, simply because it was a security guard????

If so, that kind of thinking effectively precludes usefullesson-learning.

It wouldn't have mattered who it was in UTOC's case. He was in Condition White. He had no defense against the grab.

HankT's Axiom OnGrabbing and TakingAway My Gun WithoutPermission[suP]©[/suP]:

It is never permissable to grab and take my gun from me without my knowledge and permission. Never.

HAOGTAMGWP[suP]©[/suP] always applies. No exceptions since I am a law abiding citizen.

:lol:LOL

No, I think what's being said is that most who OC will not resist whenuniformed personnel, such as mall ninjas and LE,attempt to remove the pistol from its holster. This is, exponentially, different than a BG grab...don't you think so HTK?

So much for SA

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