Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: Covering the Serial Number

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Jose, California, USA
    Posts
    121

    Post imported post

    I saw a video on youtube (I think by pull-n-shoot) where it was recommended to put some metal tape over the serial number on your firearm to preclude the police from running it in a 12031e check. If they have to lift the tape, they are searching for the serial number.

    But then I came across the Sunnyvale PD letter which included a reference to this PC:

    537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense
    What is the general thinking on this practice?

    Here is the video I am talking about:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_oWJ...A7E9CB&index=1

    He talks about this at 2:30 into this video.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    Says "COVERED" is against the law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sandy Eggo County
    Posts
    1,691

    Post imported post

    If you're not a him or a her, you can do it. I have to leave mine uncovered.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,052

    Post imported post

    Rusty wrote:
    I saw a video on youtube (I think by pull-n-shoot) where it was recommended to put some metal tape over the serial number on your firearm to preclude the police from running it in a 12031e check. If they have to lift the tape, they are searching for the serial number.

    But then I came across the Sunnyvale PD letter which included a reference to this PC:

    537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense
    What is the general thinking on this practice?

    Here is the video I am talking about:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_oWJ...A7E9CB&index=1

    He talks about this at 2:30 into this video.
    Yeah, don't do this at all. Unless the serial number was intentionally placed out of site (such as inside of the slide or some other interior of the gun that is no easily visible) then you there is nothing, legal, you can do to hide it. Of course, I would guess any gun manufactured like that would not meet rules and regs of what ever federal and/or state agency or code would govern manufacturing.

    Since police in California can inspect your gun, even though they can not run your serial number (or can they, I'm not sure), then would certainly be in violation of the law if that number was covered.

  5. #5
    Regular Member OPS MARINE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , California, USA
    Posts
    392

    Post imported post

    No, covering the serial number is not advisable at ALL. Interestingly enough, I just discovered that additional serial numbers may not be ADDED to any weapon. What do I mean? If your serial # is GUN1234, and it is on the weapon already, but you want GUN1234 stamped elsewhere, no one will do it for you. The location of the serial number is specific to the type of weapon. Even if you wish to leave the original number where it is, it's still a no go.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

  6. #6
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    While its probably not a good idea to cover the S/N with the intent of keeping it secret, there is nothing prohibiting the installation of an accessory (laser, light, red dot, scope, accesory rail, etc)that might incidentallycover some or all of the number.

    Law enforcement cannot disassemble the weapon to discover the number.


    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  7. #7
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    tekshogun wrote:
    Rusty wrote:
    I saw a video on youtube (I think by pull-n-shoot) where it was recommended to put some metal tape over the serial number on your firearm to preclude the police from running it in a 12031e check. If they have to lift the tape, they are searching for the serial number.

    But then I came across the Sunnyvale PD letter which included a reference to this PC:

    537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense
    What is the general thinking on this practice?

    Here is the video I am talking about:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_oWJ...CB&index=1

    He talks about this at 2:30 into this video.
    Yeah, don't do this at all. Unless the serial number was intentionally placed out of site (such as inside of the slide or some other interior of the gun that is no easily visible) then you there is nothing, legal, you can do to hide it. Of course, I would guess any gun manufactured like that would not meet rules and regs of what ever federal and/or state agency or code would govern manufacturing.
    What about a revolver, such as a Smith & Wesson, where the serial number is on the heel of the grip frame which is often covered by wooden stocks? The S/N also can be seen on the crane--but only if the cylinder is opened from the frame. Can the LEO in Cali open up the revolver legally to read the S/N?

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego County, CA, California, USA
    Posts
    1,402

    Post imported post

    ConditionThree wrote:
    While its probably not a good idea to cover the S/N with the intent of keeping it secret, there is nothing prohibiting the installation of an accessory (laser, light, red dot, scope, accesory rail, etc)that might incidentallycover some or all of the number.

    Law enforcement cannot disassemble the weapon to discover the number.

    What mystical force would prevent them from doing that?

    Gundude wrote:
    If you're not a him or a her, you can do it. I have to leave mine uncovered.
    I'm an it, so I'm good then.

  9. #9
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    N6ATF wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    If you're not a him or a her, you can do it. I have to leave mine uncovered.
    I'm an it, so I'm good then.

    N6....is this you?






    Nice hat....

  10. #10
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    Rusty wrote:
    537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense
    This PC doesn't seem enforceable to me, though admittedly I don't plan on being the test case. In fact this PC seems awfully close to the mattress police! :-) The phrase "any personal property" is just non-sense. How about my car radio while installed in my car? The serial number is concealed. How about the serial number of my cell phone? Concealed. The serial number on my video camera, digital camera, or just about any other electronic device I may have in my car or on my person including my watch? Concealed, concealed, concealed.

    In fact, if you read this PC it basically covers everything in your house that could possibly have a serial number.On second thought, I'm going to get some black tape,then I'm going to search forevery serial number in my house that I can find. Then...I'm going to cover it up!!!Come and get me! Rat bastards! Oh, and I'm gonna cut off my mattress tags too!!!




    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lamma Island, HK
    Posts
    964

    Post imported post

    coolusername2007 wrote:
    Rusty wrote:
    537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense
    This PC doesn't seem enforceable to me, though admittedly I don't plan on being the test case. In fact this PC seems awfully close to the mattress police! :-) The phrase "any personal property" is just non-sense. How about my car radio while installed in my car? The serial number is concealed. How about the serial number of my cell phone? Concealed. The serial number on my video camera, digital camera, or just about any other electronic device I may have in my car or on my person including my watch? Concealed, concealed, concealed.

    In fact, if you read this PC it basically covers everything in your house that could possibly have a serial number.On second thought, I'm going to get some black tape,then I'm going to search forevery serial number in my house that I can find. Then...I'm going to cover it up!!!Come and get me! Rat bastards! Oh, and I'm gonna cut off my mattress tags too!!!



    I believe that one could also argue that they are talking about PERMANENT methods.

    The intent is to prevent the trade, transfer or concealment of stolen property and therefore destroy potential evidence. Electrical tape is not permanent and will not, if proper laws are followed, prevent proper identification of the item.

    Seriously, if you take the common concept of "covered" having a coat over your laptop could be considered "covered".

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,052

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    Yeah, don't do this at all. Unless the serial number was intentionally placed out of site (such as inside of the slide or some other interior of the gun that is no easily visible) then you there is nothing, legal, you can do to hide it. Of course, I would guess any gun manufactured like that would not meet rules and regs of what ever federal and/or state agency or code would govern manufacturing.
    What about a revolver, such as a Smith & Wesson, where the serial number is on the heel of the grip frame which is often covered by wooden stocks? The S/N also can be seen on the crane--but only if the cylinder is opened from the frame. Can the LEO in Cali open up the revolver legally to read the S/N?
    This was meant in the sense that it was manufactured with the S/N out of sight. If the LEO can't see it and you did not cover it up or it was placed out of site by the manufacturer, then YOU are not at fault or at least you have a defense against the penal code 537e. And if the police of the disassemble your gun or "LOOK" for the it outside of plain site (and outside of checking the gun to see if it is loaded), then that could e argued as illegal search and siezure. Yes they can look to see if the gun is loaded, if the S/N is in plain site, then yes they can run a search on it, but unless they have legal means, they can't disassemble the fire arm.... or can they?

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Connecticut USA
    Posts
    1,247

    Post imported post

    Suggestion to those who fear exposure of certain areas oftheir firearms todestructivehumidity or other elements which may cause damage to same.

    Make sure you always finish cleaning your weapons with acoatof THICK candle type wax when finished. The wax will preserve any areas where you believe rust may appear and is easily removed if necessary or required. A non transparent dark wax may appear unsightly but the value of protectinga weapon from negative elements should always be considered.

    I doubt there is any violation of the law for the manner in which you clean and preserve the weapon from rust and other negative elements.

    You'd be amazed at how well the wax protects the area of concern from exposure to the elements.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,052

    Post imported post

    Edward Peruta wrote:
    Suggestion to those who fear exposure of certain areas oftheir firearms todestructivehumidity or other elements which may cause damage to same.

    Make sure you always finish cleaning your weapons with acoatof THICK candle type wax when finished. The wax will preserve any areas where you believe rust may appear and is easily removed if necessary or required. A non transparent dark wax may appear unsightly but the value of protectinga weapon from negative elements should always be considered.

    I doubt there is any violation of the law for the manner in which you clean and preserve the weapon from rust and other negative elements.

    You'd be amazed at how well the wax protects the area of concern from exposure to the elements.
    Interesting... or you can do what the like to do in Eastern Europe and Russia, cover everything in cosmoline. I hate cosmoline on guns.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, California, USA
    Posts
    289

    Post imported post

    ..........actually, mattress tags say nobody BUT the owner can remove it. Tear'em off, it's legal

  16. #16
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    Army wrote:
    ..........actually, mattress tags say nobody BUT the owner can remove it. Tear'em off, it's legal
    Try telling that to a MEO (mattress enforcement officer)! Those cats are hardcore...I don't want to end up with my face in the springs! :what:
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    542

    Post imported post

    Edward Peruta wrote:
    Suggestion to those who fear exposure of certain areas oftheir firearms todestructivehumidity or other elements which may cause damage to same.

    Make sure you always finish cleaning your weapons with acoatof THICK candle type wax when finished. The wax will preserve any areas where you believe rust may appear and is easily removed if necessary or required. A non transparent dark wax may appear unsightly but the value of protectinga weapon from negative elements should always be considered.

    I doubt there is any violation of the law for the manner in which you clean and preserve the weapon from rust and other negative elements.

    You'd be amazed at how well the wax protects the area of concern from exposure to the elements.
    *raises glass to ed*
    Happy holidays...as always a succinct post.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,052

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    Theseus wrote:
    I believe that one could also argue that they are talking about PERMANENT methods.
    Yeah, one of these days I am going to search for case law on this statute and meaning of "cover" - I always cover the windshield VIN on my cars with a small piece of paper - did so for a year in calif. and in many states, never a problem.

    But better safe than sorry when it comes to guns so don't tape over the SNs, you are just asking a question we don;t know the answer to yet - never dothat.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    16

    Post imported post

    537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered ["covered" makes no grammatic sense], altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense

    It is physically possible to possess property from which a number may be removed.

    It makes no grammatic sense to possess property from which a number is covered. Rather it makes sense to possess propertyon which a numberis covered.

  21. #21
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    This has been discussed before... perhaps someone less lazy than me will post a link to the other thread where we thoroughly hashed this out.

    I'll summarize my view here:

    1) The legislature's intent here was obviously to prevent someone from PERMANENTLY preventing the SN from being read.

    2) If all "covering" of a SN were illegal, then what constitutes "covered" for purposes of this statue?
    • My car has a SN on it (commonly referred to as "VIN"); when it's cold outside my window fogs over, obscuring the SN; when it's hot outside I use a sun shade that prevents looking through the front window where the SN is. Are these violations?
    • My TV has a SN on it, yet when I moved a couple years ago I draped a blanket over it to prevent damage to it, coincidentally covering the SN. Is this a violation?
    I'd love to see some case law on this one way or the other. And until then I'm not planning to be a test case. The political climate is such that a conviction is almost certain in most jurisdictions. However, I think a conviction under this PC would be easily overturned on appeal.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Folsom, , USA
    Posts
    389

    Post imported post

    just obtain permission from the manufacturer and your all good. I am sure many manufacturers would not object to pro-2 reasons.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Vista, California, USA
    Posts
    516

    Post imported post

    My Sig Sauer has at least 2 visible serial numbers.My new Sigma .40 only has 1 serial number on it and it seems that it got covered when I put on the rail adapter for the laser sight or bayonet or light.

    Thank you S&W.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Livermore, California, USA
    Posts
    229

    Post imported post

    I'm going to use a P-Touch lable maker to put "4th Amendment" on all my pistols at least near the s/n...

    Carry On,

    Livermoron

  25. #25
    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Perris, Ca., California, USA
    Posts
    420

    Post imported post

    I have a Smith and Wesson Sigma Series, .40 cal. The serial number is under the muzzle on the polymer part of the gun. I bought a LASER sight for the gun, and it attaches to the gun UNDER the muzzle on the Polymer part of the gun (gun RAIL).

    What do they expect you to attach accessories to, if you can't attach them to the RAIL system on the gun.

    This is MY OPINION, but I think, that that PC is infering to the destruction, hiding, or scraping off of the serial number with the intent to commit some othercrime.

    I want to know if it is legal to openly carry your weapon in a vehicle. PC 12025 refers to concealed weapons, ansd says a pistol in a HOLSTER is not considered cocealed (as pertaining to the PC). If you want to "OPEN CARRY", but have to lock up your weapon in a case, or in the trunk, when you get in the car... This seems STUPID.

    It's better to have a gun, and never need it, than to need one and NOT have it !!!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •