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Covering the Serial Number

Rusty

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Dec 7, 2009
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121
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San Jose, California, USA
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I saw a video on youtube (I think by pull-n-shoot) where it was recommended to put some metal tape over the serial number on your firearm to preclude the police from running it in a 12031e check. If they have to lift the tape, they are searching for the serial number.

But then I came across the Sunnyvale PD letter which included a reference to this PC:

537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense

What is the general thinking on this practice?

Here is the video I am talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_oWJhrgGZI&feature=PlayList&p=9CDFD99BEFA7E9CB&index=1

He talks about this at 2:30 into this video.
 

tekshogun

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Rusty wrote:
I saw a video on youtube (I think by pull-n-shoot) where it was recommended to put some metal tape over the serial number on your firearm to preclude the police from running it in a 12031e check. If they have to lift the tape, they are searching for the serial number.

But then I came across the Sunnyvale PD letter which included a reference to this PC:

537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense

What is the general thinking on this practice?

Here is the video I am talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_oWJhrgGZI&feature=PlayList&p=9CDFD99BEFA7E9CB&index=1

He talks about this at 2:30 into this video.

Yeah, don't do this at all. Unless the serial number was intentionally placed out of site (such as inside of the slide or some other interior of the gun that is no easily visible) then you there is nothing, legal, you can do to hide it. Of course, I would guess any gun manufactured like that would not meet rules and regs of what ever federal and/or state agency or code would govern manufacturing.

Since police in California can inspect your gun, even though they can not run your serial number (or can they, I'm not sure), then would certainly be in violation of the law if that number was covered.
 

OPS MARINE

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, California, USA
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No, covering the serial number is not advisable at ALL. Interestingly enough, I just discovered that additional serial numbers may not be ADDED to any weapon. What do I mean? If your serial # is GUN1234, and it is on the weapon already, but you want GUN1234 stamped elsewhere, no one will do it for you. The location of the serial number is specific to the type of weapon. Even if you wish to leave the original number where it is, it's still a no go.
 

ConditionThree

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May 22, 2006
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Shasta County, California, USA
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While its probably not a good idea to cover the S/N with the intent of keeping it secret, there is nothing prohibiting the installation of an accessory (laser, light, red dot, scope, accesory rail, etc)that might incidentallycover some or all of the number.

Law enforcement cannot disassemble the weapon to discover the number.
 

HankT

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tekshogun wrote:
Rusty wrote:
I saw a video on youtube (I think by pull-n-shoot) where it was recommended to put some metal tape over the serial number on your firearm to preclude the police from running it in a 12031e check. If they have to lift the tape, they are searching for the serial number.

But then I came across the Sunnyvale PD letter which included a reference to this PC:

537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense

What is the general thinking on this practice?

Here is the video I am talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_oWJhrgGZI&feature=PlayList&p=9CDFD99BEFA7E9CB&index=1

He talks about this at 2:30 into this video.

Yeah, don't do this at all. Unless the serial number was intentionally placed out of site (such as inside of the slide or some other interior of the gun that is no easily visible) then you there is nothing, legal, you can do to hide it. Of course, I would guess any gun manufactured like that would not meet rules and regs of what ever federal and/or state agency or code would govern manufacturing.
What about a revolver, such as a Smith & Wesson, where the serial number is on the heel of the grip frame which is often covered by wooden stocks? The S/N also can be seen on the crane--but only if the cylinder is opened from the frame. Can the LEO in Cali open up the revolver legally to read the S/N?
 

N6ATF

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Jul 22, 2009
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San Diego County, CA, California, USA
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ConditionThree wrote:
While its probably not a good idea to cover the S/N with the intent of keeping it secret, there is nothing prohibiting the installation of an accessory (laser, light, red dot, scope, accesory rail, etc)that might incidentallycover some or all of the number.

Law enforcement cannot disassemble the weapon to discover the number.
What mystical force would prevent them from doing that?

Gundude wrote:
If you're not a him or a her, you can do it. I have to leave mine uncovered.
I'm an it, so I'm good then.
 

HankT

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N6ATF wrote:
Gundude wrote:
If you're not a him or a her, you can do it. I have to leave mine uncovered.
I'm an it, so I'm good then.


N6....is this you?


cousin_it.jpg




Nice hat....
 

coolusername2007

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Jun 28, 2009
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Temecula, California, USA
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Rusty wrote:
537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense

This PC doesn't seem enforceable to me, though admittedly I don't plan on being the test case. In fact this PC seems awfully close to the mattress police! :) The phrase "any personal property" is just non-sense. How about my car radio while installed in my car? The serial number is concealed. How about the serial number of my cell phone? Concealed. The serial number on my video camera, digital camera, or just about any other electronic device I may have in my car or on my person including my watch? Concealed, concealed, concealed.

In fact, if you read this PC it basically covers everything in your house that could possibly have a serial number.On second thought, I'm going to get some black tape,then I'm going to search forevery serial number in my house that I can find. Then...I'm going to cover it up!!!Come and get me! Rat bastards! Oh, and I'm gonna cut off my mattress tags too!!!
 

Theseus

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Lamma Island, HK
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coolusername2007 wrote:
Rusty wrote:
537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense

This PC doesn't seem enforceable to me, though admittedly I don't plan on being the test case. In fact this PC seems awfully close to the mattress police! :) The phrase "any personal property" is just non-sense. How about my car radio while installed in my car? The serial number is concealed. How about the serial number of my cell phone? Concealed. The serial number on my video camera, digital camera, or just about any other electronic device I may have in my car or on my person including my watch? Concealed, concealed, concealed.

In fact, if you read this PC it basically covers everything in your house that could possibly have a serial number.On second thought, I'm going to get some black tape,then I'm going to search forevery serial number in my house that I can find. Then...I'm going to cover it up!!!Come and get me! Rat bastards! Oh, and I'm gonna cut off my mattress tags too!!!
I believe that one could also argue that they are talking about PERMANENT methods.

The intent is to prevent the trade, transfer or concealment of stolen property and therefore destroy potential evidence. Electrical tape is not permanent and will not, if proper laws are followed, prevent proper identification of the item.

Seriously, if you take the common concept of "covered" having a coat over your laptop could be considered "covered".
 

tekshogun

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HankT wrote:
tekshogun wrote:
Yeah, don't do this at all. Unless the serial number was intentionally placed out of site (such as inside of the slide or some other interior of the gun that is no easily visible) then you there is nothing, legal, you can do to hide it. Of course, I would guess any gun manufactured like that would not meet rules and regs of what ever federal and/or state agency or code would govern manufacturing.
What about a revolver, such as a Smith & Wesson, where the serial number is on the heel of the grip frame which is often covered by wooden stocks? The S/N also can be seen on the crane--but only if the cylinder is opened from the frame. Can the LEO in Cali open up the revolver legally to read the S/N?
This was meant in the sense that it was manufactured with the S/N out of sight. If the LEO can't see it and you did not cover it up or it was placed out of site by the manufacturer, then YOU are not at fault or at least you have a defense against the penal code 537e. And if the police of the disassemble your gun or "LOOK" for the it outside of plain site (and outside of checking the gun to see if it is loaded), then that could e argued as illegal search and siezure. Yes they can look to see if the gun is loaded, if the S/N is in plain site, then yes they can run a search on it, but unless they have legal means, they can't disassemble the fire arm.... or can they?
 

Edward Peruta

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Connecticut USA
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Suggestion to those who fear exposure of certain areas oftheir firearms todestructivehumidity or other elements which may cause damage to same.

Make sure you always finish cleaning your weapons with acoatof THICK candle type wax when finished. The wax will preserve any areas where you believe rust may appear and is easily removed if necessary or required. A non transparent dark wax may appear unsightly but the value of protectinga weapon from negative elements should always be considered.

I doubt there is any violation of the law for the manner in which you clean and preserve the weapon from rust and other negative elements.

You'd be amazed at how well the wax protects the area of concern from exposure to the elements.
 

tekshogun

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Edward Peruta wrote:
Suggestion to those who fear exposure of certain areas oftheir firearms todestructivehumidity or other elements which may cause damage to same.

Make sure you always finish cleaning your weapons with acoatof THICK candle type wax when finished. The wax will preserve any areas where you believe rust may appear and is easily removed if necessary or required. A non transparent dark wax may appear unsightly but the value of protectinga weapon from negative elements should always be considered.

I doubt there is any violation of the law for the manner in which you clean and preserve the weapon from rust and other negative elements.

You'd be amazed at how well the wax protects the area of concern from exposure to the elements.
Interesting... or you can do what the like to do in Eastern Europe and Russia, cover everything in cosmoline. I hate cosmoline on guns.
 

coolusername2007

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Army wrote:
..........actually, mattress tags say nobody BUT the owner can remove it. Tear'em off, it's legal :D

Try telling that to a MEO (mattress enforcement officer)! Those cats are hardcore...I don't want to end up with my face in the springs! :what:
 

heliopolissolutions

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Edward Peruta wrote:
Suggestion to those who fear exposure of certain areas oftheir firearms todestructivehumidity or other elements which may cause damage to same.

Make sure you always finish cleaning your weapons with acoatof THICK candle type wax when finished. The wax will preserve any areas where you believe rust may appear and is easily removed if necessary or required. A non transparent dark wax may appear unsightly but the value of protectinga weapon from negative elements should always be considered.

I doubt there is any violation of the law for the manner in which you clean and preserve the weapon from rust and other negative elements.

You'd be amazed at how well the wax protects the area of concern from exposure to the elements.
*raises glass to ed*
Happy holidays...as always a succinct post.
 

Mike

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Theseus wrote:
I believe that one could also argue that they are talking about PERMANENT methods.
Yeah, one of these days I am going to search for case law on this statute and meaning of "cover" - I always cover the windshield VIN on my cars with a small piece of paper - did so for a year in calif. and in many states, never a problem.

But better safe than sorry when it comes to guns so don't tape over the SNs, you are just asking a question we don;t know the answer to yet - never dothat.
 

dapster

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537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number, electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered ["covered" makes no grammatic sense], altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense

It is physically possible to possess property from which a number may be removed.

It makes no grammatic sense to possess property from which a number is covered. Rather it makes sense to possess propertyon which a numberis covered.
 
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