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Thread: Holster required?

  1. #1
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    I've read the law, and I haven't seen anywhere that it's actually necessary to use a holster. If I missed it somewhere, that would preclude OC'ing a rifle/carbine or any other weapon that one would typically sling. Does anyone know for sure?

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    NovaMan wrote:
    I've read the law, and I haven't seen anywhere that it's actually necessary to use a holster.
    Do you want to carry [a handgun]without a holster? Why on earth would you want to do that?




    NovaMan wrote:
    ...that would preclude OC'ing a rifle/carbine or any other weapon that one would typically sling. Does anyone know for sure?
    The rifle thing....again. Good luck with that. Really, good luck with that.

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    NovaMan wrote:
    I've read the law, and I haven't seen anywhere that it's actually necessary to use a holster.* If I missed it somewhere, that would preclude OC'ing a rifle/carbine or any other weapon that one would typically sling.* Does anyone know for sure?
    How do you think you go about hunting without prosecution for brandishing?

    Of course it's legal.

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    Licensed hunting, as I recall, is specifically exempted from brandishing charges in the MCL on it. So are police actions, and by an AG opinion a HOLSTERED PISTOL.

    I do think you could convince a judge/jury that a slung rifle or shotgun wasn't being brandished. But my advise is that if you're going to do it, be ready to spend the time and money to convince a judge or jury.


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    HankT wrote
    Do you want to carry [a handgun]without a holster? Why on earth would you want to do that?
    I don't want to do that.

    HankT wrote:
    The rifle thing....again. Good luck with that. Really, good luck with that.
    Yes, the rifle thing again. Please direct me to the other threads dealing with this topic, or a MI law that requires a holster for OC. Actually, if you can't do the latter, don't bother with the former.


    Edit: no disrespect intended, but let's keeps this factual and documented with actual laws and AG opinions.

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    NovaMan wrote:
    Please direct me to the other threads dealing with this topic, or a MI law that requires a holster for OC.
    Carrying a gun in your hand to prove you can carry a gun in your hand seems to me to be the very definition of brandishing. It wouldn't be a smart thing to do in an urban environment.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I'm not talking about carrying a gun in my hand, I'm talking about carrying a rifle slung over my shoulder. Totally different.

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    AG opinion 7101 of February 2002 (included here) states that carrying a pistol/handgun in a holster is legal, but that is the specific situation considered - niether that opinion nor the law consider a weapon without a holster, such as a rifle slung over the shoulder. It seems to me the only way that could be illegal is if it were considered brandishing by being an ostentatious way of carrying a weapon; however, ostentatious display is further defined in the same AG opinion as "a menacing or defiant wave or flourish." In the spirit of AG opinion 7101, to flourish is further defined as "to make bold and sweeping gestures" or "to wield with dramatic gestures." A rifle slung over the shoulder fits none of those definitions.

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    NovaMan wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    The rifle thing....again. Good luck with that. Really, good luck with that.
    Yes, the rifle thing again. Please direct me to the other threads dealing with this topic, or a MI law that requires a holster for OC. Actually, if you can't do the latter, don't bother with the former.


    Edit: no disrespect intended, but let's keeps this factual and documented with actual laws and AG opinions.
    There are several threads about OCing long guns in the various state subforums. Have you used the search function or scanned the subforum for them?

    I'd be surprised if you couldn't find something.

    Someone always comes along with this idea. It seems to hold a special allure of some kind...


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    well, so far I have not had an issue with carrying a slung pistol.

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    Kimberguy wrote:
    well, so far I have not had an issue with carrying a slung pistol.
    What you beencarrying?

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    HankT wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    well, so far I have not had an issue with carrying a slung pistol.
    What you beencarrying?
    An AK-47

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    T Vance wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    well, so far I have not had an issue with carrying a slung pistol.
    What you beencarrying?
    An AK-47
    How often does he carry it?

    And where?

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    I've personally seen him carry twice. Once to the "Tea Party" in Jackson, and another time at Walmart. He even walked right infront of 2 LEO's. They didn't say a word.

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    T Vance wrote:
    I've personally seen him carry twice. Once to the "Tea Party" in Jackson, and another time at Walmart. He even walked right infront of 2 LEO's. They didn't say a word.
    Why does he do it?



    Does he carry a decent backup weapon when he carries the AK?

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    HankT wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    I've personally seen him carry twice. Once to the "Tea Party" in Jackson, and another time at Walmart. He even walked right infront of 2 LEO's. They didn't say a word.
    Why does he do it?



    Does he carry a decent backup weapon when he carries the AK?
    He also OCs a handgun. I have seen him do it at both the places T has stated. No issues.

    He has to answer why he does it, but I think it's because he's a free man in a free state. No other reason needed.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    You sound like an investigating officer Hank. What's with all the questions?

    Why do you ask all these questions?

    Will they be used for something?

    What time did you wake up today?

    Did you have breakfast?

    What did you have for breakfast?

    Was it deliscious?


    I had a quessadilla.

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    T, I don't care what Hank had for breakfast, we should only ask Hank important questions such as, Hank, what do you carry and do you open carry and where do you open carry and why do you ask other people questions like these but refuse to answer questions such as what state do you reside in? Those are the questions Hank should be asked and answer, but of course, Hank doesn't have to answer them.springerdave.

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    I know where you guys are going but hank asking him questions like why do you carry a AK are actually good questions that he may be asked on the streets by people who do not OC at all. That means..... having the conversation here can prepare other OCers for possible responses ect if they themselves decide to do it

    I truly find the conversations on this forums where people have dissenting views to be the most educational.

  20. #20
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    springerdave wrote:
    ... we should only ask Hank important questions such as, Hank, what do you carry and do you open carry and where do you open carry ....
    So, SD, is it only certain people that should get asked those questions?

    Or is it everyone? Should we, do you think, ask these questions of all OCDO members?

    Be careful in your answer....



    choover wrote:
    I know where you guys are going but hank asking him questions like why do you carry a AK are actually good questions that he may be asked on the streets by people who do not OC at all. That means..... having the conversation here can prepare other OCers for possible responses ect if they themselves decide to do it

    I truly find the conversations on this forums where people have dissenting views to be the most educational.
    Of course. But some people, including some above who are small-minded think that a discussion is best if participants do not say anything they a) do not like, or, b) do not understand.

    But, that's the way unprepared and inflexible minds handle even moderatecomplexity. That's why they frequently opt for restriction and censorship...

    They think it's easier.

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    Venator wrote:
    He has to answer why he does it, but I think it's because he's a free man in a free state. No other reason needed.
    Under archaic and racist old gun laws, we need permission to carry a modern handgun. We are subject to heavy taxes, some of the heaviest in the country. We can be arrested and sent to prison for carrying knives and other non firearm weapons. We are in no way shape or form free, or in a free state. We in Michigan are subjects of a tyrannical government which the founders would be disgusted by.

    Off topic I know, but just sayin'.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    To answer the question of why I would want to OC anything larger than a handgun, well, why would anyone want to OC any gun? Why would anyone want to carry a gun at all? Why would I rather carry a 38 than a pellet gun?

    But why is not the issue in this thread: I'm still waiting for a law, AG opinion, or legal precedent of some kind requiring a holster to OC.

  23. #23
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    NovaMan wrote:
    To answer the question of why I would want to OC anything larger than a handgun, well, why would anyone want to OC any gun? Why would anyone want to carry a gun at all? Why would I rather carry a 38 than a pellet gun?

    But why is not the issue in this thread: I'm still waiting for a law, AG opinion, or legal precedent of some kind requiring a holster to OC.
    People carry guns for self-defense.

    OCing a handgun in most urban locations is using a reasonably good all-purpose defensive tool. OCing a rifle in such a location, ahmmm, probably not so useful.

    The pellet gun example is inapt.

    Do you plan to OC the long gun if it can be done without a holster legally? Why?

    Where and why, NM?

    And when?

    It will be interesting to hear your report of the event.



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    Hank, take a look at the information to the left of this sentence and guess where I might want to carry. Why do you want to know? Are you going to come try to find me and gun me down? Are you going to call the cops and warn them someone might be legally carrying a weapon?

    Is there an ignore option on this message board?


    I'm still waiting for a law, AG opinion, or legal precedent of some kind requiring a holster to OC.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    NovaMan wrote:
    But why is not the issue in this thread: I'm still waiting for a law, AG opinion, or legal precedent of some kind requiring a holster to OC.
    There is no law to stop you from stepping outside the boundaries of the protections against a brandishing charge, but if you get in trouble doing so it's all on you.

    Most here are rather brave sorts who aren't afraid of unlawful police actions, but I think most here will agree that it pays to make sure any nonsense criminal charges will be dropped without much fuss, which is why few advocate long gun OC in urban areas.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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