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Thread: No charges against Moorhead man who shot teenaged intruder

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Vernon Allen shot and killed a man (17 y.o.) who came into his domicle without permission.

    Vernon Allen, clearly, was justified in the use of lethal force against the intruderon that Junenight. And now, 6 months later, the Minnesota LE have decided to notpressany charges against Allen.

    Based on thedetails shown below, this was a good decision.






    December 21 2009

    No charges against Moorhead man who shot teenaged intruder


    Moorhead, Minn. (WDAY TV) - There is new information tonight, 6-months after a fatal shooting in Moorhead. Police say that the man who shot and killed a teenaged intruder will not face charges. Police say Vernon Allen acted out of self-defense and all the evidence was consistent.

    By: Stephanie Goetz, WDAY

    Moorhead, Minn. (WDAY TV) - There is new information tonight, 6-months after a fatal shooting in Moorhead. Police say that the man who shot and killed a teenaged intruder will not face charges. Police say Vernon Allen acted out of self-defense and all the evidence was consistent.

    They say the shot gun shell found in his bathroom was in the same place where Allen said he was standing when he shot LaFromboise at close range. Also, toxicology reports show LaFramboise's alcohol content was 0.21, almost 3-times the legal limit for driving. There were no signs of drugs in his system.

    On June 20th, police say the 17-year-old walked into Allen's apartment and tried to punch him twice. When Allen grabbed a gun from his room, the teenager grabbed the gun's barrel. Police have been criticized for taking a long time with this case. Others have accused the department of being racist. Police say they just wanted all the evidence in the case.

    "This case got the same deliberate work and effort that this type of murder investigation would have gotten to determine if a crime had been committed."

    Police were waiting for a key piece of evidence that came in Wednesday. It showed the gun was shot a foot and a half away of LaFromboise. The family of LaFromboise says all they wanted was justice for Joel, but today, they say they got little closure and no resolution.

    It has been six months since LaFromboise was shot and killed and the family says that today's news is another loss.

    "I'm just sad about it, I was hoping for a different outcome."

    LaFromboise says he feels emptiness. He was hoping that something more would happen that justice would be served in the death of his teenage son.

    "Arrested and charged with something, Joel was just a teenager."

    But it wasn't. This man, Vernon Allen, is free of criminal charges after he shot and killed Ralph's son, Joel, this June when he walked, disoriented into Allen's home.

    "Why did he have to bring a gun out?"

    Ralph says the self defense law, that freed Allen, needs to be changed and that there's no justifiable reason for taking someone's life.

    "I think there's different measures you can take, instead of shooting to kill somebody. You could shoot to wound them, there's other ways of going about things."

    "It's really frustrating. They're still heartbroken. They've been mourning the loss of their son for a while now and they were really hoping to find peace with the justice system."

    This mourning dad says he is still trying to process it all, wondering what to do next, but knowing he could never face one man.

    "And that's when I pulled the trigger on the shotgun, because I'd rather have it be him than me."

    "I don't think I could look the man in the face that killed my son. There's too much anger."

    Ralph says it didn't make sense that Joel went into other people's apartments that night, one of which was a woman's, and they were able to make him leave without hurting him. Joel's mother and his sister are taking this news very hard. They say they still feel something needs to be done.

    http://www.wday.com/event/article/id/28043/


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    HankT provided a snip of the article where the father stated:
    "I think there's different measures you can take, instead of shooting to kill somebody. You could shoot to wound them, there's other ways of going about things."
    Yeah, right!! Shoot to just wound them? I don't think so!!
    If you do, they can turn around and get some sleazebag lawyer to file a civil suit against the for damages. Theman killed the punkwhile he wasdefending his life while up against an attacker half of his age and probably in farstronger physical shape.
    Don't bring a fist to a gunfight!

    I have heard second-hand stories of court proceedings (from an acquaintance in LE that was involved in a trial where an attorney has turned an "I just tried to wound him instead of killing him" statement from someone into a whole new world of horse crap trying to make the justified shooter look like he wanted to make someone suffer instead of putting them out of their misery.

    Moralof the story?
    Don't get stumbling drunk and attack people in their homes, and you probably got a whole lot less to worry about when it comes to loaded firearms being used against you.



    Hank, the TV station where you snipped this article from? Is it in WI, because I thought the call-signs for any broadcast station west of the Mississippi river always started with a "K" instead of a "W"?

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    The father of the deceased teen gives a typical response of those that refuse to accept any responsibilty for their own failures.

    Had Ralph been a more responsible parent, maybe his son would still be alive today. Where was Ralph when his son was out drinking (at 17) and breaking into other peoples homes?

    Sorry, I havelittle sympathy for this family's loss.


    spelling

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    Joel's mother and his sister are taking this news very hard. They say they still feel something needs to be done.


    Yeah stand up & say " Our son should never have gotten drunk & assaulted this man. "

    Whatever happened to personal responsibility??

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    REX681959 wrote:
    Joel's mother and his sister are taking this news very hard. They say they still feel something needs to be done.


    Yeah stand up & say " Our son should never have gotten drunk & assaulted this man. "

    Whatever happened to personal responsibility??
    They've been conditioned by the liberals to believe that such a thing is beyond their capability. Only conservative white folk are held accountable.



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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    Hank, the TV station where you snipped this article from? Is it in WI, because I thought the call-signs for any broadcast station west of the Mississippi river always started with a "K" instead of a "W"?
    I think it's in Minnesota. On the Minnesota/North Dakota border, far from WI.

    I do believe you are right about the K/W assignments. But there are some exceptions for stations that were grandfathered when the boundary changed years ago...

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    On June 20th, police say the 17-year-old walked into Allen's apartment and tried to punch him twice. When Allen grabbed a gun from his room, the teenager grabbed the gun's barrel. Police have been criticized for taking a long time with this case. Others have accused the department of being racist. Police say they just wanted all the evidence in the case.

    Sorry but where in the article say that either people involved was coloured ????? or am I missing something
    A gun Owner Is A Citizen
    Anyone Else is a Subject

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    RogueAussie wrote:
    On June 20th, police say the 17-year-old walked into Allen's apartment and tried to punch him twice. When Allen grabbed a gun from his room, the teenager grabbed the gun's barrel. Police have been criticized for taking a long time with this case. Others have accused the department of being racist. Police say they just wanted all the evidence in the case.

    Sorry but where in the article say that either people involved was coloured ????? or am I missing something
    It is obviously racist because someone didn't like the outcome. That makes it racist. Has nothing to do with actual race or actual feelings.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Shoot to wound? Different measures!

    Tell that to Anne Pressly and anyone else that has been attacked... oh wait, you can't she got her face beat in... and she was raped... and she's dead. Too bad she and others didn't use "different measures" or shoot to wound (if they had a gun, Anne Pressly didn't). Or maybe they did use different measures or shoot to wound... they still ended up dying. Donna Jackson, Oklahoma, just weeks ago. She could have been killed, beaten, raped, by a man that was DRUNK. He violently fought his way into her home. He had an intent to do something. She did the right thing by sending him away.

    Take the High Road. It is your only insurance policy against what a criminal mind may or may not be thinking. This isn't Vegas, you don't gamble with your life, not like that.

    And thank goodness the man who defended himself is not being charged in this case.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Stop feeding the troll. He already posted this in his ongoing thread.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    ...Only conservative white folk are held accountable.
    That's the way I see it, too. Except when it is the kids of influential people in a small town.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Hmmmm and if the roles were reversed? And someone was breaking into thier home and punching them? I guess they wouldn't mind.

    Hard to shoot to wound with a shotgun 18" or so away.

    to the prosecutor who thought he could try to find something to charge the homeowern with.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Shot in arm, center of mass or center of forehead is all the same to this regard -

    You are wounded. Perhaps more so or less, but the fact still remains.

    Next question

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I'm as outraged about this case as the LaFromBoise family except for a different reason. I'm outraged because our criminal justice system is so badly broken that a case that should have been settled in one day took six months to solve. How much time and money did the taxpayers spend to solve this murder mystery? Yep, it was a real puzzler: a drunk teenage thug walks into an apartment andattacks the occupant, followed by the occupant defending himself. Clearly a case for CSI!!!!

    These idiots from the police department should have been able to solve his in ONE DAY! Was it really necessary to put the occupant in hell for 6 months while they investigated this open and shut case? Where did common sense go?

    I also think it's ridiculous that the police don't release the criminal background of the teenage thug. I'd be willing to bet that this punk had more than one contact with the police!





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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    propertymanager wrote:
    I'm as outraged about this case as the LaFromBoise family except for a different reason. I'm outraged because our criminal justice system is so badly broken that a case that should have been settled in one day took six months to solve. How much time and money did the taxpayers spend to solve this murder mystery? Yep, it was a real puzzler: a drunk teenage thug walks into an apartment andattacks the occupant, followed by the occupant defending himself. Clearly a case for CSI!!!!

    These idiots from the police department should have been able to solve his in ONE DAY! Was it really necessary to put the occupant in hell for 6 months while they investigated this open and shut case? Where did common sense go?

    I also think it's ridiculous that the police don't release the criminal background of the teenage thug. I'd be willing to bet that this punk had more than one contact with the police!



    Dude, do you have ANY IDEA how many donuts they can put on their expense report in 6 months?
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    An interesting bit of trivia concerning this case, is the meaning (in French) of the decedent's last name, "LaFramboise". In French, this name means "The Raspberry"...

    Here is the police video of the initial interview between Morehead Police and Mr.Allen:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpdAm_BegaA

    It has been reported that the decedent, Joel LaFromboise was a 17 year old whose MySpace page is said to have contained gang signs and indicated that he used hallucinogenic drugs. It was determined by the Coroner that LaFranboise's BAC was more than twice the legal limit for driving under MN law.

    Here is a much more detailed analysis of this case, and the situation that transpired that evening:

    http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2010/0...l-lafromboise/

    Yet another "little wayward angel" who made the ULTIMATE bad decision.

    And again, I will reiterate, if you don't go doing stupid, illegal things and threatening and assaulting innocent people, you don't have to worry about people shooting you in self-defense.

    My prayers go out to Vernon Allen. The taking of ANY human life is a traumatic experience, and I hope he can move on with his life with a clear conscience and a righteous spirit. May the rest of Mr. Allen's life is filled with peace and tranquility.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    RogueAussie wrote:
    On June 20th, police say the 17-year-old walked into Allen's apartment and tried to punch him twice. When Allen grabbed a gun from his room, the teenager grabbed the gun's barrel. Police have been criticized for taking a long time with this case. Others have accused the department of being racist. Police say they just wanted all the evidence in the case.

    Sorry but where in the article say that either people involved was coloured ????? or am I missing something
    The decedent was an "Native American"...

    And according to KXMB-TV's website, Here is the decedent's "MySpace" page:

    http://www.myspace.com/tha_city612

    Notice the gang signs, and mutiple references to drug use...


    Here is the KXMB-TV's story from their website, dated June 22, 2009:

    http://www.kxnet.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=394717
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Yeah, and he claims he's 18 ... hmmmm, wonderful little angel someone raised ... I notice he referrs to his location as ... wait for it ... murderapolis ... could it be he was a violent thug rather than an angel? Coupled with 'liquid courage' sure turned out to be a lethal combination.
    cheers - okboomer
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    okboomer wrote:
    Yeah, and he claims he's 18 ... hmmmm, wonderful little angel someone raised ... I notice he referrs to his location as ... wait for it ... murderapolis ... could it be he was a violent thug rather than an angel? Coupled with 'liquid courage' sure turned out to be a lethal combination.
    myspace has you input your age,its entirely possible his birthday had passed since he was horribly murdered by a crazy home owner with a big automatic street sweeper of death.

    however,i have not yet looked at the myspace page to see if it was written by him or just his birthday put into his account details.

    either way, the outcome was great! just it should've been an open and shut case.

    dont take a csi analyst and 6 months to determine that a shotgun shell was ejected one way out of the gun and under its own power,was sent X feet away from shotgun.

    and that the fingerprints on the end of the shotgun barrel were of the deceased.

    and by eyeballing it...you could get a rough estimate as to how far the shotgun was from the bg.

    not that it matters exactly,the bg broke in and assaulted said homeowner and got killed because of it,open and shut.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    "The father of the deceased teen gives a typical response of those that refuse to accept any responsibilty for their own failures. Had Ralph been a more responsible parent, maybe his son would still be alive today. Where was Ralph when his son was out drinking (at 17) and breaking into other peoples homes? Sorry, I havelittle sympathy for this family's loss. " -- Task Force 16


    ...I completely agree.

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    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Police have been criticized for taking a long time with this case.
    No kidding! Six months? That's not thorough, particularly when other LEO departments make that decision in a couple of days, some even on the same day.

    Six months is just ridiculous!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    since9 wrote:
    Police have been criticized for taking a long time with this case.
    No kidding! Six months? That's not thorough, particularly when other LEO departments make that decision in a couple of days, some even on the same day.

    Six months is just ridiculous!
    Better late than never - at least they cannot be accused of making a hasty decision.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    since9 wrote:
    Police have been criticized for taking a long time with this case.
    No kidding! Six months? That's not thorough, particularly when other LEO departments make that decision in a couple of days, some even on the same day.

    Six months is just ridiculous!
    True.

    But that's why HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense© :

    It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.



    is so clearly a powerful concept.

    I wish everyone would read and understand HPCSD© before they do something like Vernon Allen did....



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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    I wish everyone would read and understand HPCSD© before they do something like Vernon Allen did....
    Would that be before or after the drunken young man [in his physical prime] punched the [physically out of shape] late middleaged man?

    Just how much physical abuse is enough for someone to endure before they should attempt to defend themselves?

    Your postulate may look good on paper ... I don't see that it survives real world situations for very long for a majority of victims. A lot of things look good on paper. Not as many work in the real world.


    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    But that's why HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense© :

    It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.



    is so clearly a powerful concept.
    im down with that hank...





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