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Thread: Proposed Legislation - Recognition of Delaware, Pennsylvania, and Virginia Permits

  1. #1
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Well, it wouldn't be reciprocity just because Maryland says it is; recognition would be the proper name for it at this time. Still, I'm glad to see it proposed:

    HB 52: Regulated Firearms - License Issued by Delaware, Pennsylvania, or Virginia - Reciprocity

    See the attached PDF for the full text of the bill.

    All you Maryland residents, please write/e-mail/phone your representative(s) and urge support for this bill. I'm sure a Maryland shall-issue bill will be proposed soon, too.

    On the Maryland GA web site, you can view bills by subject. Click here to view all bills related to guns.


  2. #2
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    No residency garbage. How far will it get?

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    How far will it get???? How far cancongressman Langevin jump?? In other words, don't expect it to go anywhere. It's a good start but it they can't even get shall-issue or "reasonable issue" (delaware) passed.

    After McDonald, perhaps Maryland will become shall issue and start recognizing OOS permits... but until then...

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    Hey, what about West Virginia?!? We also border the [Not So] Free State. :quirky
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

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    WVCDL wrote:
    Hey, what about West Virginia?!? We also border the [Not So] Free State. :quirky
    could be there is a strategic or tacticalreason for the omission.

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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    I read HB 52 and was wondering if I understood what it actually means......

    A LICENSE ISSUED BY DELAWARE, PENNSYLVANIA, OR VIRGINIA TO AN INDIVIDUAL TO CARRY A REGULATED FIREARM, INCLUDING A CONCEALED REGULATED FIREARM, IS VALID IN THIS STATE.


    Does this bill indicate that you can OC or CC, or am I reading too muchintoit? Also, I also took the bill to mean that the licenses would be "recognized" and not that there would be"reciprocity" between the states.

    Jared, we have to be hopeful with the introduction of this Bill that it will go far. I have my doubts, but I am hopeful. It is encouraging, nonetheless. Maybe it will go like the health care bill where the lawmakers will hold out, then vote for it because they "got something" for the district that they represent (I am being cynical, of course).

    This Bill is a long time coming so that people (like me) can travel through MD without fear of being arrested on a gun charge (I don't even go to MD because I can't carry there). This Bill must pass.....that is just all it is to it!!

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    I'm hoping that they look at this bill as "You have to learn to walk before you can run" with limiting it to border states (Why not have WV included is strange to me also). It will be interesting to see if it passes and how it will worded. But the main thing is that if it does pass is that MD LEOs are taught properly about it. I don't want to be in MD (w/CHP) and harrassed because I know my rights better than the LEO.

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    I'm not holding my breath. Best of luck to you, though.

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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    One thing is for sure is that it will bring more revenue to the state (eventually). I here you, Tomahawk. I am skeptical as well. But, I'm hopeful for a change (not anObama-style change, but, real change in MD).

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Smurfologist wrote:
    I read HB 52 and was wondering if I understood what it actually means......

    A LICENSE ISSUED BY DELAWARE, PENNSYLVANIA, OR VIRGINIA TO AN INDIVIDUAL TO CARRY A REGULATED FIREARM, INCLUDING A CONCEALED REGULATED FIREARM, IS VALID IN THIS STATE.


    Does this bill indicate that you can OC or CC, or am I reading too muchintoit? Also, I also took the bill to mean that the licenses would be "recognized" and not that there would be"reciprocity" between the states.
    Does the rare, elusive, MD license allow OC, or just CC? Recognized licenses would be authorized to do whatever MD licensees can do, but nothing more. All MD rules would apply.

    As for reciprocity, the MD legislature can't declare that, because reciprocity requires the other state to declare mutual recognition. Unilateral declarations are recognition, not reciprocity, exactly as you stated. Texas "recognizes" a NY permit, but there's darn sure no reciprocity there.


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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    KBCraig wrote:
    Smurfologist wrote:
    I read HB 52 and was wondering if I understood what it actually means......

    A LICENSE ISSUED BY DELAWARE, PENNSYLVANIA, OR VIRGINIA TO AN INDIVIDUAL TO CARRY A REGULATED FIREARM, INCLUDING A CONCEALED REGULATED FIREARM, IS VALID IN THIS STATE.


    Does this bill indicate that you can OC or CC, or am I reading too muchintoit? Also, I also took the bill to mean that the licenses would be "recognized" and not that there would be"reciprocity" between the states.
    Does the rare, elusive, MD license allow OC, or just CC? Recognized licenses would be authorized to do whatever MD licensees can do, but nothing more. All MD rules would apply.

    As for reciprocity, the MD legislature can't declare that, because reciprocity requires the other state to declare mutual recognition. Unilateral declarations are recognition, not reciprocity, exactly as you stated. Texas "recognizes" a NY permit, but there's darn sure no reciprocity there.
    There's this state senator... 'Frosh'... I think from Monkey County... must be Sarah Brady's brother... Anyway... This clown is anti-gun all the way. Dunno what input/influence he'd have on this. AZ recognizes a MD CCW.. not that it matters 'cause those are near non-existant to the commoners. This is from the Southern MD forum a couple years ago:

    "Trying to get a carry concealed weapon [CCW] permit in Maryland is a farce. I am presently involved in the fiasco and would not have believed how ridiculous the process is, if I wasn't seeing/experiencing it first hand.

    Fill the application out, affix a fingerprint card, a passport photo; oh, and don't forget your check for $117.

    I'd been better off to just take my money and drop it on $117 worth of "scratch and lose" lottery tickets.

    Completed the application then went and sat for an interview where the Trooper seemed he rather be cleaning a toilet; only to say I didn't have substantial reason.

    I am a business owner here in the County and do carry deposits of other people's checks to the bank. Didn't even seem to phase MSP. Identity fraud, bank fraud, damage to my business reputation, you name it. I have an appeal hearing soon, but I doubt I'll have much luck.

    The MSP don't give a crap about individuals safety or security. He!!, they already have their CCWs....

    Keep it up Maryland it will just be a matter of time before you're number one in violent crime stats....

    Time to move to Florida, or Arizona, or Alaska, or Vermont.... Anywhere is better than this Gestapo run state!"



    The MD Constitution has no provisio for self defense. That was deleted during the Constitutional Convention of 1867 in advance of the 14th Amendment and a direct result of the Dred Scott Act. No guns for African American's in the 'Free State'.

    Whoever wrote HB 52 is prob'ly a product of MD gummint schools. They obviously dunno where W.Virgina is in relation to MD... or think that's just a part of VA (still). Look... face it... Maryland is filled with myopic mouth breathers. Maryland just seems to breed xenophobic ignorance. The longer I've been gone from there, the moreI realize it. The fact thatI was even spawned there is an embarrassment.A well traveled an informed Marylander is about as rare as a MD CCW holder. OC in MD is existant... along the Appalachian Trail 'n the backwoods where no lawdog will go on foot. Legal? Never! Reasonable and Prudent? Of course... that's why it's not allowed. 'Marylandthink' is like that.

    'Seems to me tho.... that in the very wording... that a person with a PA LTCh could open carry... but a Virginian could not, as there is no encompassing 'license/permit' to do so. But... open carry in MD wouldget you arrested or prob'ly shot no matter. What MD needs to do is reinstate the right to bear arms in it's Constitution. Many people don't even knowit waseliminated. 'Course, then again... most peop[le mis-educated in Maryland think the State grants you rights too.

    Do I think this Bill will pass? No. Do I think it should? Yes.

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    I read the sponsor is from the Eastern Shore, so I guess WV is too far

    Probably won't go anywhere. They did have a straight shall-issue bill with 40 co-sponsors last year, I wonder if that will gain momentum this year.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    'Nuther thing I thought of....

    Marylanders with non-resident PA, VA and DE permits. :celebrateStick that in yer MDSP pipe 'n smoke it!

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    KBCraig wrote:
    Does the rare, elusive, MD license allow OC, or just CC? Recognized licenses would be authorized to do whatever MD licensees can do, but nothing more. All MD rules would apply.

    Open carry never required a permit in MD until 1972 due to the baltimore race riots. With a MD LTC, you can open or concealed carry. It also enables one to conceal carry any knive, including switchblades.

    Open carry of any blade is already legal in MD under state law, including swithblades.

    Honestly though, people are waisting their times, MD will not pass this bill.

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    True they may not WILLINGLY pass it. But they may be forced by the Federal Courts to do it. See McDonald v. Chicago, Palmer v. DC, Sykes v. McGuiness.

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    Skyes would be a 9th cir. case. Even if Skyes goes our way, it has no bearing on Maryland.

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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    "Maryland is filled with myopic mouth breathers. Maryland just seems to breed xenophobic ignorance."

    That's very funny no matter who you are!!!

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Marylanders with non-resident PA, VA and DE permits. :celebrateStick that in yer MDSP pipe 'n smoke it!
    You may want to review your homework. Even if this bill passes it will most likely exclude MD residents with out-of-state non-resident permits. Many states already do that...

    The MD legislature is NOT known for giving it's own citizens any rights above common serfdom. Don't expect this bill to represent the ringing bells of Freedom for MD residents. I doubt it will affect ANY carry rights for MD residents at all.

    There is an evil side to this bill getting passed. MD has ALWAYS blamed PA, VA and DE for their own gun violence. If this bill goes through, I can just hear them saying, in a year or two,"See what happens when we let people with CHP's to carry in our state?" The fact that the economy is tanking, the majority of the citizens of MD are unarmed sheep, and the hard-core gangs are turning MD into their East-Coast headquarters won't matter to these sociopathic anti-gunners. The rising homocide, robbery, and sexual assault rates in MD merely represent additional sacrifices on their alter of Total Control, made to their dark, avaricious gods of Greed, Power, and Control.

    There's a flip side to every coin, folks, no matter how shiny the face of it may be...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    Hope.........Positivity.........Non-Criminal Association With CHP Holders.........Political Atmosphere Of Maryland.........2010.........Elections..........N ew Regime..........Rise In Crime Rate...........SCOTUS..........Maryland Residents Get Fed-up (not necessarily in this order).........

    That should keep our thoughts busy until change (non-Obama change) actually happens in 2012........Just a thought!

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Jared wrote:
    Open carry never required a permit in MD until 1972 due to the baltimore race riots. With a MD LTC, you can open or concealed carry. It also enables one to conceal carry any knive, including switchblades.
    Just another example of the Racist Roots of Gun Control. The same thing happened in Chicago, DC, and LA. Let a few non-white people march in the streets with guns, and all bets are off...

    You'd think every "minority" would realize that Gun Control is just a 20th-century version of Jim Crow, and would be fighting it tooth and nail as the heinous racist evil that it is, instead of buying into the anti's hype...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Dreamer wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Marylanders with non-resident PA, VA and DE permits. :celebrateStick that in yer MDSP pipe 'n smoke it!
    You may want to review your homework.
    The language of the bill sez: A LICENSE ISSUED BY DELAWARE, PENNSYLVANIA, OR VIRGINIA TO AN INDIVIDUAL (No mention of actual residency) TO CARRY A REGULATED FIREARM, INCLUDING A CONCEALED REGULATED FIREARM, IS VALID IN THIS STATE (Maryland). Therefore... if the license/permit is issued by either of those three states, the permit is valid in MD. Period!

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Dreamer wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Marylanders with non-resident PA, VA and DE permits. :celebrateStick that in yer MDSP pipe 'n smoke it!
    You may want to review your homework.
    The language of the bill sez: A LICENSE ISSUED BY DELAWARE, PENNSYLVANIA, OR VIRGINIA TO AN INDIVIDUAL (No mention of actual residency) TO CARRY A REGULATED FIREARM, INCLUDING A CONCEALED REGULATED FIREARM, IS VALID IN THIS STATE (Maryland). Therefore... if the license/permit is issued by either of those three states, the permit is valid in MD. Period!
    DE does not issue to non-res. PA requires a non-res to have a permit of their home state if said state issues them...no matter how infrequently. So that would leave only VA as an option ..
    States don’t have rights. People do.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    If this bill DOES go through, I will be hand-delivering my VA Non-Resident Permit Application to Richmond within the week of it's enactment. It would be WELL worth the $100 to me, because I have family in MD and I HATE not being legally allowed to carry when visiting them...

    But I'm not holding my breath...

    However, I WILL be contacting the VSP for a non-resident permit application packet, filling out the forms in advance, and filing it in my personal "legal file" here at home until we find out what MD is going to do with this. Might as well be prepared if it DOES go through...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  24. #24
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    nonrespermit@vsp.virginia.gov

    My request produced a packet in 2 days!

    I agree with virtually everything I have read in this thread. I am a MDer and live with the negative vibes constantly.

    Whoever said to think positive is advising what is best. Momentum. It is in the right direction this time. I am going to be realistic with positive expectations. Who knows. We are surrounded by sane (more same anyway) legislators. Maybe it will eventually rub off. ...and I won't have to move!

    I have 0 ccw permits and never have. Please excuse my childish exuberance as I wait ever so patiently for my permit from VA, which was mailed 12/18/09.

    Dave

  25. #25
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The one part of this proposed bill that has me a little perplexed is this part:

    BY repealing and reenacting, without amendments,
    Article – Public Safety 9
    Section 5–101(p) 10
    Annotated Code of Maryland 11
    (2003 Volume and 2009 Supplement) 12

    This is the "Regulated Assault Weapons" list of firearms that are currently prohibited in MD. I wonder why they need to repeal and then re-enact this section without amendments, to accomplish the reciprocity section?

    I fear that the anti's will latch on to the "repeal" part of this section, and forget to tell the public that it is then being reenacted without change, to whip up the idea among the public that this bill will somehow repeal the "assault weapons ban" in MD...

    The whole thing just doesn't pass the "sniff test"...

    But I'm keeping hope that it WILL pass. If it does, I'll be filing for a VA non-resident permit, toot suite...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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