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Thread: Gunman vowings to continue carrying AK-47 to parks draws ire from open carry advocates

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    NOTE: My comments below were quoted correctly - however, missing is some background info - the TN legislature just recently loosened up handgun carry rules in state and local parks - loaded long gun carry appear still unlawful there, unlike most states - hence, reasonable suspicion is raised by carrying long guns, or what appear to be long guns, into a park in Tennessee.

    ---

    http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conten...ng-ak-47-parks

    SNIP

    Gunman vows to continue carrying AK-47 to parks
    Wednesday, December 23, 2009 at 1:55pm
    By Jeff Woods


    Leonard Embody's AK-47 handgun is legal to carry in state parks under new laws aimed at loosening firearms restrictions.
    A champion of the Second Amendment is vowing to exercise his constitutional rights by parading around Bicentennial Mall with a loaded AK-47 assault pistol slung across his back, but even fellow gun advocates are denouncing his behavior as a foolish publicity stunt.

    The man identified by police as Leonard Embody, 37, already has caused a stir by donning miliary garb and going for a walk with his weapon at Radnor Lake State Park last weekend. Alarmed hikers alerted rangers, who detained Embody and questioned him in the parking lot. He showed them his state permit to carry a handgun, and he eventually was released without charges once police determined his weapon is a pistol and not a rifle.

    It's legal for permit-holders to carry pistols openly in state parks under one of several new laws adopted by the legislature this year to loosen restrictions on guns. More than 250,000 people have permits to carry handguns in Tennessee.

    Embody, who declined to talk with The City Paper, is saying on Internet chat rooms that he’ll take his weapon to downtown’s Bicentennial Mall, another state park, next week. Police say they have issued an advisory for officers to look out for Embody, but “it’s just a heads up” if he scares people again.

    “It’s a pistol, and he has a right-to-carry permit,” police spokeswoman Kristin Mumford says. “If we get calls from a concerned public, our officers can talk to him about it, but that’s it.”

    On pro-gun Web sites, Embody complains that he was detained for 2 ½ hours by park rangers and police at Radnor Lake, a popular place for family outings just south of downtown Nashville.

    “[A] ranger jumped out with a shotgun pointed at me and yelled at me to stay still and put the weapon on the ground,” Embody writes. “After I put the weapon down he told me to move away which I did. He then told me to put my face on the ground and my arms on my head. I complied. I think he had a gun trained on me the whole time, but I couldn’t see. He searched me quickly and put my AK into the truck.”

    Embody says he will complain to police and the Metro Council about his treatment.

    “Next week when I open carry the AK-47 in a Nashville state park (Bicentennial Mall) I better not be detained longer than is necessary to check my permit and determine I'm not a safety hazard. I will have an audio recording as well.”

    He adds: “I'm not doing anything illegal by carrying an AK47 pistol. A Smith and Wesson .460 revolver will kill someone just as dead. … I find it ridiculous that cops will make up laws on the spot just because they do not like how you look or what type of firearm you carry.”

    In another comment, he says, “I guarantee that when I carry in Bicentennial Mall I will be stopped. You're more than welcome to come and watch or video.”

    Embody is getting online criticism as a prankster who could turn public opinion against laws allowing handgun carrying. Some commenters also are objecting because Embody capped the tip of his pistol’s muzzle orange, a sign commonly used to show the weapon’s actually a toy. They say police were right to be suspicious of Embody because of his strange behavior.

    Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of the pro-gun Web site OpenCarry.org, likens Embody to the protester who drew public outrage last summer by openly carrying a handgun outside one of President Barack Obama’s town hall meetings.

    In an e-mail to The City Paper, Stollenwerk says: “Many people in the open carry community are not very happy with this fellow's apparent stunt to carry a ‘handgun’ that looked like a long gun slung over his shoulder, and capped with an orange tip to make it disguised as a toy — no wonder the police took an interest and investigated the guy. Had they seen a person wearing a normal handgun in a proper holster on a walk, they probably would have just said ‘hello.’”

    Stollenwerk writes that Embody “slung his pistol over his back almost as if he was baiting the police to mess with him — very poor form and not helpful.”





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    This commentary sure makes HankT happy!
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    Mike wrote:
    NOTE: My comments below were quoted correctly - however, missing is some background info - the TN legislature just recently loosened up handgun carry rules in state and local parks - loaded long gun carry appear still unlawful there, unlike most states - hence, reasonable suspicion is raised by carrying long guns, or what appear to be long guns, into a park in Tennessee.

    Stollenwerk writes that Embody “slung his pistol over his back almost as if he was baiting the police to mess with him — very poor form and not helpful.”


    I think in Tennessee anytime a cop sees someone carrying a handgun or any firearm reasonable suspicion is raised. However, this pistol doesn't look like a rifle because rifles all have one thing in common, they all have shoulder stocks or have a place to attach them. The draco AK has neither. God help someone who carriesa homemadeAR pistol put together from parts,because the buffer tube is going to be hell to explain.

    No two people ever see eye to eye and I know this is your website, but don't take this the wrong way. Cops bait people all of the time. They leave bait cars on the street for thieves to steal, they run prostitution stings, and drug stings. I don't condone illegal behavior at all, but ifcops can do it why is it"poor form and not helpful" if regular joe citizen does it?

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    Ditch the dayglo orange tip. It's extremely unprofessional.

    Thanks.

    -Richard-

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    NOTE: My comments below were quoted correctly - however, missing is some background info - the TN legislature just recently loosened up handgun carry rules in state and local parks - loaded long gun carry appear still unlawful there, unlike most states - hence, reasonable suspicion is raised by carrying long guns, or what appear to be long guns, into a park in Tennessee.

    Stollenwerk writes that Embody “slung his pistol over his back almost as if he was baiting the police to mess with him — very poor form and not helpful.”


    I think in Tennessee anytime a cop sees someone carrying a handgun or any firearm reasonable suspicion is raised. However, this pistol doesn't look like a rifle because rifles all have one thing in common, they all have shoulder stocks or have a place to attach them. The draco AK has neither. God help someone who carriesa homemadeAR pistol put together from parts,because the buffer tube is going to be hell to explain.

    No two people ever see eye to eye and I know this is your website, but don't take this the wrong way. Cops bait people all of the time. They leave bait cars on the street for thieves to steal, they run prostitution stings, and drug stings. I don't condone illegal behavior at all, but ifcops can do it why is it"poor form and not helpful" if regular joe citizen does it?
    Reluctantly I agree with kwikrnu.:?

    It is funny how this guy scares sheeple, meanwhile we just think he is a goof-off.

    He is acting like a dope, but he is getting publicity. Having all the reports on him saying this guy is creepy, but carrying a 'normal' pistol is OK. will be a step forward for most sheeple.

    babysteps. There are times and places, where legal OC of a 'normal' pistol will garner the same response as this guy. But this is a good sign we are moving past that. Now this guy looks nuts, but regular OC is being normalized during the process. It is kinda a good sign. Kinda.

    Also political activism through baiting the cops and media, while not the cleanest form of activism, is definitely valid. I think it has the potential to backfire thought.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    kwikrnu,

    I hate how they referred to you as a gunman. It's not like you shot up the damn park.

    All I ask is that you be careful. Keep the audio and anything else you have to record encouters handy.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    kwikrnu,

    I hate how they referred to you as a gunman. It's not like you shot up the damn park.

    All I ask is that you be careful. Keep the audio and anything else you have to record encouters handy.
    I noticed that too. very insulting. I wonder if you could threaten suit for defamation if they don't print a retraction?
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    kwikrnu--as with others, I appreciate your right to carry and to open carry.

    As a Nashvillian, let me clear up what appears to be a growing mis-perception: You were carrying in a very nice park in an affluent area of town with little crime. Not exactly a hotbed for violence. Just saying that so people will quit saying "move to a different area".

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    We must remember folks some people are naturally more of an activist than others... and that is a good as if they were not the country would have never been founded in the first place.

    Also I agree with Office888 lose the orange tip. Other than that cover yourself with a video cam and voice recorders and keep that smile on your face and be a good example for others and carry on!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    .....wow.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Other than that cover yourself with a video cam and voice recorders and keep that smile on your face and be a good example for others and carry on!
    +1 on that!

    Nothing seems to make LEOs rage more, than when an open-carrier isn't intimidated by their "brute force" methods. Added to that, if you're calm and courteous, HOPEFULLY they'll treat you the same.

    I would love to hear some of the audio from this encounter if you did have a recorder going...

    -Richard-

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    I agree with the idea. . . to a point.

    I would not like the orange tip of the use of camouflage, but to each their own. . . who am I to judge. If its legal, do it!

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    I don't have any problem with the carry of rifles or firearms that are legally pistols that look similar to rifles.

    I think red tips are ugly. But no one should allow themselves to be fooled into thinking a gun is fake solely for having a red tip because anyone with red paint can make a gun have a red tip.

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    Wow.

    Blame the victim. Pretty sad day for OCDO.

    I thought open carry was the right. If Tennessee would recognize that basic truth, then all of this gun owner bashing would evaporate.

    Sheeple are afraid of guns for illogical reasons. So those that cast dispersions are not sheeple.

    I do think that those that think that it is OK to abuse our right if it is not "normal" should be labeled as half sheeple because they are trying to apply logic to illogical gun laws, and are getting half baked results.

    I have tried to apply the half sheeple view of gun rights to any other civil right. As we used to say in New Hampshire, can't get there from here.

    Live Free or Die,

    Thundar


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Mike wrote:
    Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of the pro-gun Web site OpenCarry.org, likens Embody to the protester who drew public outrage last summer by openly carrying a handgun outside one of President Barack Obama’s town hall meetings.
    My response to the author of this is the handgun open carrierdrew public support from many, too.I'm in that camp, so Mike'scomparison of Embody to that guy is favorable in my eyes.


    Mike wrote:
    In an e-mail to The City Paper, Stollenwerk says: “Many people in the open carry community are not very happy with this fellow's apparent stunt to carry a ‘handgun’ that looked like a long gun slung over his shoulder, and capped with an orange tip to make it disguised as a toy — no wonder the police took an interest and investigated the guy. Had they seen a person wearing a normal handgun in a proper holster on a walk, they probably would have just said ‘hello.’”

    Stollenwerk writes that Embody “slung his pistol over his back almost as if he was baiting the police to mess with him — very poor form and not helpful.”
    "not very happy"--Speak for yourself. I'm very happy the guy is lawfully exercising his rights. So he doesn't lose them. Isn't thatwhat we say, "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"? I think so, because I copied and pasted that fromthis website's homepage.

    "stunt"--That's a subjective derogatory word. Can you useobjective language while articulatingrational disagreement?

    "looked like a long gun"--To you, perhaps. To me, it looked like a short-barreled gun with a folding stock, which may or may not meet TN criteria to be a "long gun". I'm not the expert on that, but I expectTN police officers to be since, well, they're paid to know the laws they enforce. If a reasonable TN police officer couldreasonably be expected to visually determine thisshort-barrelled gun with a folding stock is NOT a "long gun" per TN law, then reasonable suspicion does not exist in thisparticular situation.

    "capped with an orange tip to make it disguised as a toy"--Was that the purpose of the orange tip? I'm just asking if that's the established fact, as your statement implies.

    "no wonder the police took an interest and investigated the guy"--The police may not detain a citizen, which is what happened, on mere "interest". There must be RS or PC that he was about to commit a crime or had committed a crime. That is the constitutional hurdle. Did they clear that hurdle?



    Mike wrote:
    Stollenwerk writes that Embody “slung his pistol over his back almost as if he was baiting the police to mess with him — very poor form and not helpful.”
    "almost as if he was baiting the police"--That's a subjective and derogatory characterization without basis in fact(at the time it was stated). That is just as much poor form and not helpful. Can it be refrained from, and objective language used in articulating the facts of what happened and our agreement or disagreement?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Mike wrote:

    “It’s a pistol, and he has a right-to-carry permit,” police spokeswoman Kristin Mumford says. “If we get calls from a concerned public, our officers can talk to him about it, but that’s it.”
    IF we have a RIGHT to carry in Tennessee, then why do we need a state issued permit to do so?

    Permits do not grant us our rights....this is exactly the type of government run idiocy we are fighting in this state.



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    umm...

    just a thought,but with the orange tip couldnt some real dickhead try and say it should fall under NFA regulations?

    specifically violating the AOW portions.

    about disquised firearms

    heres a copy from the WIKI,mt browser doesnt feel like looking up exact laws,but i haveread it before.

    Any Other Weapons (AOWs) - this is a broad "catch-all" category used to regulate any number of firearms which the ATF deems deserving of registration and taxation. Examples include, among others:

    (i deleted the un needed parts)

    • DISGUISED FIREARMS



    he even said,that the point of the orange tip was to make it look like an airsoft gun,which by definition is not a firearm.

    so one COULD argue that with the orange tip it should be an AOW,as it does not look like a firearm,it looks like an airsoft gun.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    So, I take it that TN's open carry law does not require the weapon to be in a holster like other states do?

    Oh, and on an outside chance, has anyone considered the possibility that this guy could be an anti that is doing this to freak people out so they demand the repeal of open carry?

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    Mike wrote:
    Gunman vows to continue carrying AK-47 to parks
    Wednesday, December 23, 2009 at 1:55pm
    By Jeff Woods


    Leonard Embody's AK-47 handgun is legal to carry in state parks under new laws aimed at loosening firearms restrictions.
    A champion of the Second Amendment is vowing to exercise his constitutional rights by parading around Bicentennial Mall with a loaded AK-47 assault pistol slung across his back...

    I'm afraid that kwikrnu has become the new Danbus of OCDO.

    A symbol....a rallying point....a problem. A benefit. And a detriment.

    All he needs is a cap with the letters MWAAK on it.

    Up to now, the recent history of OC as an innovation which is diffusing into societyhas included many people--including activists and extremists.

    It occurs to me that the two most famous OCers here at OCDO and as known elsewhere, Danbus and anty506, are either convicted, in jail or on their way.

    Is that kwikrnu's path?

    Looks like it to me.



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    C-dub wrote:
    So, I take it that TN's open carry law does not require the weapon to be in a holster like other states do?

    Oh, and on an outside chance, has anyone considered the possibility that this guy could be an anti that is doing this to freak people out so they demand the repeal of open carry?
    Yes, that has definitly been kicked around some here.

    I believe that most gun owners/carriers have the "mental capacity" to excercise responsible descression about when, where, and what to carry re firearms, and they do. Anti-gunners haven't dsiplayed any evidence, IMO, that they possess such "mental capacity" to practice any sort of responsiblity.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    C-dub wrote:
    So, I take it that TN's open carry law does not require the weapon to be in a holster like other states do?

    Oh, and on an outside chance, has anyone considered the possibility that this guy could be an anti that is doing this to freak people out so they demand the repeal of open carry?
    Yes, that has definitly been kicked around some here.

    I believe that most gun owners/carriers have the "mental capacity" to excercise responsible descression about when, where, and what to carry re firearms, and they do. Anti-gunners haven't dsiplayed any evidence, IMO, that they possess such "mental capacity" to practice any sort of responsiblity.
    Nah.

    He's one of ours.

    No doubt about it.

    Quit dreamin'. He's our boy.

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    Mike does not speak for me.
    Mike has not articulated the primary beliefs of even the majority of open carry proponents, on this issue.


    Those of you freaking out over an AK47 pistol, which lawfully meets all requirements to be classified as such, then carrying around handguns YOU picked out, are hypocrites. Period. End of story.

    So little attention has been paid to his "actions", or the "actions" of the police.
    So much attention has been paid to the "type" of pistol he chose to carry.
    So much attention has been paid to his camouflage clothing, like business suits or casual wear are the only acceptable garb for open carry.
    Unless the law specifies "where" he should carry said sidearm, and prohibits slinging it over his back, then why pay any attention to this drivel at all? That's right, you shouldn't.

    I occasionally wear flip-flops, hunting based t-shirts, and khaki shorts. Gee, I hope my attire fits your "acceptable garment" list. Wouldn't want anybody to be unhappy about the way I choose to exercise my rights. Could you please help regulate them for me?Would a Giorgio Armani suit be acceptable? Should I purchase Gucci shoes?

    Would you mind sending me an itinerary of your "transition plan"? I want to make sure I'm moving in coordination with opencarry.org's plans, so that they don't throw me under a bus for wearing camouflage AND a sidearm of my choice. Although I probably deserved it, because camouflage is simply unacceptable. Especially in a woodland environment.

    Maybe I should purchase a Ruger Super Redhawk, and a nice holster to practice my rights! Only catch is, for the next month I could wear nothing but BDU pants and brown t-shirts. I am guessing that would make me an evil open carry advocate, as opposed to a good one.

    Oh joy HankT! The Open Carry movement is beginning to see the light! Am I right? :celebrate
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
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    C-dub wrote:
    So, I take it that TN's open carry law does not require the weapon to be in a holster like other states do?

    Oh, and on an outside chance, has anyone considered the possibility that this guy could be an anti that is doing this to freak people out so they demand the repeal of open carry?
    Some states, including North Carolina do not have explicit laws regarding w to open carry except for when involving prohibited places and for the purpose of transporting in your car.

    Many places, you can sling your pistol OR your rifle over your shoulder if you want to or you can holster your pistol. Technically, you can hold it in your hands but most places will take that as brandishing and going armed to the terror of the public.

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    Okay. Just for the heck of it. How much time does anyone think it would take to get this weapon from your back and on target compared to a more common one in a holster on the hip at 4 or 8 o'clock? I'm thinking that it would be at least a couple of seconds slower, but I don't really know.

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    C-dub wrote:
    Okay. Just for the heck of it. How much time does anyone think it would take to get this weapon from your back and on target compared to a more common one in a holster on the hip at 4 or 8 o'clock? I'm thinking that it would be at least a couple of seconds slower, but I don't really know.
    It would be much faster to carry it on your chest. My sling had a quick release and a quick adjust. Pull the quick adjust tab and you can push the pistol forward. The sling gives added stability. Then just take it off safe and your ready to go. It'sveryquick.

    here is a video

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