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Thread: new member and some thoughts

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    As a new member to this forum I would like to thank each and every one of you for exercising their rights as an American citizen. After spending 28 years in the military I feel this group is what America is really about. I have spent about 4 days reading the forum back to about page 80. A lot of good info. I applaud you all. I think this group has the ability to transform the public thinking about this country’s direction. No I’m not a LEO. No, I’m not in love with cops, even though I have several friends that are. I always try to remain “user friendly” but at the same time I’m not giving up any rights.



    Having said that I would like to give some unsolicited observations that apply to some.

    Your rights also come with a lot of responsibilities. If one posts a question for example what is use of force, what does that tell me about you? Long before anybody straps on any tool that can do bodily harm, learn about your rights and your responsibilities. I thought the object is to protect lives and not go to court as “The Defendant”. Wouldn’t it be great if some uninformed person called 911 and the dispatched could say “I understand the man has a gun, he is what we call an “outside carry”, he is within his rights and you should be glad we have citizens that are willing to spend the money and time and training to protect himself and maybe you someday.



    Proactive vs Reactive. I think your group could make major inroads into the average John Q public thinking, if your organization could have more positive interaction. Try to get some positive news coverage. Or maybe either through you folks willing to interact with LEO’s or vice versa: somehow; such as inviting LEO’s to you’re functions or maybe making a DVD about your group and what it is about. Then providing the LEO’s with it so they could see your point of view in a non-threatening position. Verses LE being dispatched to a “man with a gun” call. Every group has their 10% goof offs, Cops and OCers, how long do to you think it will be before “super cop” and a “OCer” have a fatal run in? Will that better your groups position? What do you think the news coverage will be about that? Turn your actions positive in the public eyes by standing up for your rights in a manner that is consistent with your responsibilities. Notice how some members have positive interactions with LEO and others have negative? I have to wonder what did the positive members did that created a situation that made the interaction positive? Why is it some members end up BSing with LE and other members in up in cuffs? Sometimes I know it is the “super cop”, but not very often if you connect some dots.

    Within the last 2 or 3 months five cops have been gunned down doing their job in the Sea-Tac area. LEO are advertizing on the back of buses for help. Most criminals are serving 3/5 of their jail time and being kicked out back on the street. What does that tell you? What do you think a cop is thinking when he is pulling up on a “man with a gun” call?



    I’m pissed off just as much as you are. I’ve spent 28 years defending this country. A lot of people have died all in all parts of the world defeating communism [/b]and socialism just to have it elected in our own country. No, I’m not giving up any of my rights.



    OK, I only proof read once. Maybe a new member should not give his opinion or maybe I don’t think like some of your members. Go ahead blast away at me. I can take it. I can see where some of you might think I’m a troll. But I think this post is on topic even though, yes it is inflammatory to some.





    OK, I only proof read once. Maybe a new member should not give his opinion or maybe I don’t think like some of your members. Go ahead blast away at me. I can take it. I can see where some of you might think I’m a troll. But I think this post is on topic even though, yes it is inflammatory to some. I see no benefit with cops having to approach someone with a gun that is within the law just because someone didn’t like it. I do however see a lot of benefit to the public that oc makes one more level of protection. Of course that perception will only be earned.

    For example of perception

    Last week when I was at Fred Myers or Staples in Burien (can’t remember which). I was just looking around for gifts and a guy caught my eye. At first I thought it was a big cell phone. Upon closer inspection I saw it was a pistol. My first thought was great that guy is not dressed like a druggie or “nut job” if there is any trouble in this place. I’m behind that guy all the way. Then driving home I tried to think when was the last time I saw somebody with a pistol on. The whole experience made me think maybe there is hope for this country.

    Pat

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    welcome to the board

    Glad to see you spent alot of pre reading time, i know i learned alot from this group.

    Over all, many different types here, but we all share the common goal of normalization.

    Bat
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    1st Thank you for your service. Sincerely.

    2nd Welcome to OCDO. Glad to have ya, I saw none of what you wrote as inflammatory.

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Good morning, pat, and welcome. You've made some good observations, and thank you for posting. We dohave somepositive interactions with the general public including the armed litter crew on I5, summertime picnics in public parks, speaking at governmental meetings, not to mention daily interactions with people who ask questions when they see us. Any recommendations you might havefor more interface opportunities are welcome.

    You didn't mention where you are from, but I'm guessing you live near Burien since that is where you were shopping when you saw the OC. Do you OC as well? If not, do you have any plans to do so?

    As a fellow retired military member, you may also be interested in joining Oath Keepers.

    Again, welcome. I look forward to meeting you at one of our get-togethers.



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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    Well Said!! Thank you!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard!!! And thanks for your service.

    We try to have regular meets and have had some positive news coverage. Deros and Manu have set up some great meets and the press have come a few times.

    Hopefully we will see you at a meet soon.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Pat, I'm renting a table at the next WAC gunshow at the Puyallup fairgrounds, maybe you want to stop by and hang out at the table or just say "hi" and meet a couple of us there.

    Welcome aboard

    Thanks for your service




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    "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Pat, Welcome. I saw nothing offending, even if I did, oh well, First amendment. I agree, we do need some better interaction. I see post to set up table's at gun shows where gun nuts are, but not at other functions where we could change and open minds. I think it's awesome you saw someone OC. In the 17+ years I've been in WA state, I have never seen anyone OC. That disterbs me and at times discourages me. I OC only at times I feel real comfortable with it. Would like to feel comfortable all the time. A meet at a designated approved prearranged place just doesnt do it for me. An OC meet, I think should be a day hike around Seattle in public visiting a multitude of public places and on transit. As far as getting blasted, dont take it to heart if it happens. We all have opinions, I have been blasted and thats what keeps me here. Sometimes I think what an idiot, sometimes it changes the way I view things. Again, Welcome. BTW so everyone knows, I just puke words here, I dont proof read.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Welcome to the board. Positive and non-issue is my goal when i carry open. and that should be the goal of all of us without giving up ONE single right that you helped earn.

    My weapon will never leave my holster in the presence of LE. And if the board memebers here have the same opinion then there will never be a LE OC shooting unless LE is negligent.

    Again, welcome and if you are at my Staples (near IKEA) come on in and say hello.


    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard Pat

    Your opinions are welcome. Just remember to do your homework.

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    Pat welcome to OCDC. There are a lot of opinions here, good or bad they move the forum forward and that is the goal.

    Your proactive vs reactivepoint is well taken. What you are missing is just like the 6 oclocknews the good stuff is under reported. I OC every where I go every day and have had no negitive encounters with LEOs or the general public outside of a few nasty looks. I have had a lot of positive encounters that I hope further the OC cause, I just dont report them cause it would get pretty boring. I am not the only one, there is a lot more of us than you know that just simply OC and go about our business, I hope you can also OC without problems. One convert at a time and shortly it will be the norm.


    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    FMCDH wrote:
    Welcome aboard Pat

    Your opinions are welcome. Just remember to do your homework.
    And like Dave said in his column for this site....have a thick skin.....we all need it here at times.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Answers to questions



    Q--You didn't mention where you are from, but I'm guessing you live near Burien since that is where you were shopping when you saw the OC.



    A--I live in White Center. Living hear has afforded the opportunity to see first hand to see why

    citizens should be armed. But at the same time have I have one wall that has nic-naks of

    all the different countries where my neighbors are from. I ask them to bring me something back

    from their country and give them a twenty. So far I’m received beaded jewelry, baskets ect.

    The best I’ve received so far is a homemade dart gun from Brazil and a VCR tape of actual

    “combat” footage filmed at a border skirmish between Eritrea and Ethiopia.



    Q-- Do you OC as well?



    A—No I don’t OC.But that is my choice. I’ve carried a pistol way to long. I don’t like having to clean it. Putting it on and taking it off. I’ve yet to find a seat belt that makes it easy to put on when OC. I don’t like reaching in my pocket having to move the thing out of the way only to have it poke in my side. I don’t like brushing against somebody (store, etc) and taking them by “surprise”, I don’t like kids bumping their head into it as they are running to the toy section in a store. And I don’t like always to be re-arranging it, especially when you have to drop your pants to take care of really important business.



    Q--If not, do you have any plans to do so?



    A—No, as you can tell from above I’m not in love with carrying. Having said that, If anything

    threatens my choice to carry I do believe I’ll have 2, one on each side.

  14. #14
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    pat wrote:
    .....I’ve carried a pistol way to long. I don’t like having to clean it. Putting it on and taking it off. I’ve yet to find a seat belt that makes it easy to put on when OC. I don’t like reaching in my pocket having to move the thing out of the way only to have it poke in my side. I don’t like brushing against somebody (store, etc) and taking them by “surprise”, I don’t like kids bumping their head into it as they are running to the toy section in a store. And I don’t like always to be re-arranging it, especially when you have to drop your pants to take care of really important business.....

    ~snip~
    I'm not exactly sure what kind of hand cannon you seem to be carrying that interferes so much with daily things, but you may wish to re-examine your carry choice. They do make different size guns ya know? :P

    That being said...some people just don't have the body for certain kinds of carry. Perhaps its not WHAT your carrying, but how. IWB or SOB carry completely different from each-other or strong side, and using one type of holster (i.e. fed-paddle) on the strong side isn't going to fit and carry the same as a pancake carried the same way. Perhaps your one of the rare shoulder holster types?

    Most people I think will agree that if your having that many uncomfortable carry experiences, your probably not carrying correctly for your body or clothing choices.

    I have to say, after 13 years of solid carrying, I cant relate to almost any of the uncomfortable experiences you have listed above.

    It can be a nuisance at times, but I long ago learned to integrate it into my life, but it wasn't cheap or easy.

    Just some thoughts.

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    Let me eat some crow or explain better. I should mention that all of my carrying is in the military. Which means a pistal hooked to a cartage belt that was hook around the waist with a .45

    I have never used a regular holster. Maybe that could make a big differance.

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    pat wrote:
    Let me eat some crow or explain better. I should mention that all of my carrying is in the military. Which means a pistal hooked to a cartage belt that was hook around the waist with a .45

    I have never used a regular holster. Maybe that could make a big differance.
    I give you my internet word that it would make all the difference. But really, do yourself a favor and try it out, just a month. Oh, and pick a pistol of reasonable size for daily carry. Reasonable being something that has a size that reflects the propensity of use of a personal defense weapon.

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