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Thread: Michigan Open Carry member open carries while speaking at a Algonac City Council meeting

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    The right to bear arms issue raised in Algonac

    Published: Tuesday, December 22, 2009

    By Jeri Packer, Voice Staff Writer

    Part one of an occasional series

    Scott Webb showed up at the Dec. 15 Algonac City Council meeting with a gun.

    It was perfectly legal.

    Webb had a semi-automatic 40-caliber pistol lawfully holstered at his side, while he addressed the council regarding the state gun law.



    . . .


    Though he hasn't been approached about his gun in Algonac, Webb said he has in other cities during the four to five years he's been exercising his Second Amendment right to bear arms.

    Algonac Councilman Gary Tuzinowski said he was familiar with the state statute pre-empting the local ordinance regarding guns in certain public areas.

    "It goes back many years and falls into other relic laws like, you can't feed your horse on Sundays," he said. "I don't like the fact that (a gun) is in your face, but the law is the law. I don't see a problem with the attorney going over it."

    Tuzinowski cited an instance when a citizen openly carrying a gun attended a city council meeting in Ferndale. The man's right to carry was questioned and an attempt to enforce a local ordinance banning guns from the meeting was attempted, he said.

    "It was turned down," he said. "You have no right to regulate where guns are used in public, when they follow the (state) law. Of course, you can't threaten anyone with it or use it (inappropriately)."

    Memphis Police Chief Elena Danishevskaya said there is no local ordinance banning legal firearms in her rural community. She said many people are not aware of the open carry law in Michigan and are concerned at the sight of a weapon displayed in public.

    "The general public gets nervous for a reason," she said. "A lot of things have happened throughout the country, like the rash of shootings in churches and schools, but these people aren't law-abiding citizens."

    She said citizens in Memphis are welcome to carry a gun in public, provided they follow state guidelines, but asks them to be mindful of the fears of others.

    "If people want to exercise their right, let them to do so, but please think of the citizens that get nervous when they see a gun in the open," she said. "And realize there may be some misunderstanding. A person might get nervous if they are a shop-owner."

    Webb agrees that some people do get edgy at the sight of his Smith and Wesson, but said they wouldn't worry if they knew the screening process a gun-toter goes through for the right to carry a gun.

    "We come under more scrutiny than the average law-abiding citizen to prove our right to carry a firearm in public legally," he said.

    Webb is a member of the Michigan Open Carry, Inc., a non-profit organization that educates the public on gun ownership.

    "I've been around firearms pretty much all my life," he said. "Michigan Open Carry provides education for everyone. The laws can be very confusing."

    Part of those laws includes the proper protocol for carrying a gun in public, which includes keeping it holstered at all times.

    "Unless I have to use it," he added, but also said it is something he hopes he will never have to do.

    "It's a tool I carry with me," he said. "I hope I will never need to use it, but when I am in public, no one can guarantee a crime is not going to happen."


    Coming next: The pros and cons of carrying a gun.


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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Relic law? :shock: Whatever, dude.

    In any case, kudos to you, Mr. Webb.
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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    Relic law? :shock: Whatever, dude.

    In any case, kudos to you, Mr. Webb.
    Yep, the U.S. Constitution is a relic as long as victim disarmers like this guy print it on their toilet paper.

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    Mike wrote:
    http://www.voicenews.com/articles/20...t#blogcomments

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    ...citizens in Memphis are welcome to carry a gun in public, provided they follow state guidelines, but asks them to be mindful of the fears of others.

    end snip
    Memphis Police Chief Elena Danishevskaya said the above as quoted in the posted article.

    Isn't this like telling Rosa Parks that she is welcome to sit anywhere she wants as long as she gives up her seat and moves to the back on the bus if someone complains?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thank You and God Bless You!
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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Aren't most preemption laws fairly new?? I think it was passed in 1990? How the heck is that a relic??? What an ass. Isn't MOST preemption relatively new??? Definitely not relic. I would like to see a citation on if it is illegal to feel your horse on Sunday, as I was unable to find it in the law.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Relic laws.....I think the author was referring to the gun ban laws. Most were implemented before 1990 (Preemption) and the municipalities just weren't aware of the change (preemption). Of course some citiesare aware and keep the old bans on the books to create a defacto gun ban. They can point to them when an uninformed person asks if OC is legal in their city
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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    Relic laws.....I think the author was referring to the gun ban laws. Most were implemented before 1990 (Preemption) and the municipalities just weren't aware of the change (preemption). Of course some citiesare aware and keep the old bans on the books to create a defacto gun ban. They can point to them when an uninformed person asks if OC is legal in their city
    I don't think so, he was referring to Preemption of the city council from banning firearms. Sounds like he wants the authority to ban firearms, and tried once in the past.
    ##quote##
    Algonac Councilman Gary Tuzinowski said
    "It goes back many years and falls into other relic laws like, you can't feed your horse on Sundays," he said. "I don't like the fact that (a gun) is in your face, but the law is the law. I don't see a problem with the attorney going over it."

    Tuzinowski cited an instance when a citizen openly carrying a gun attended a city council meeting in Ferndale. The man's right to carry was questioned and an attempt to enforce a local ordinance banning guns from the meeting was attempted, he said.
    ##endquote##
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Relic laws.....I think the author was referring to the gun ban laws. Most were implemented before 1990 (Preemption) and the municipalities just weren't aware of the change (preemption). Of course some citiesare aware and keep the old bans on the books to create a defacto gun ban. They can point to them when an uninformed person asks if OC is legal in their city
    I don't think so, he was referring to Preemption of the city council from banning firearms. Sounds like he wants the authority to ban firearms, and tried once in the past.
    ##quote##
    Algonac Councilman Gary Tuzinowski said
    "It goes back many years and falls into other relic laws like, you can't feed your horse on Sundays," he said. "I don't like the fact that (a gun) is in your face, but the law is the law. I don't see a problem with the attorney going over it."

    Tuzinowski cited an instance when a citizen openly carrying a gun attended a city council meeting in Ferndale. The man's right to carry was questioned and an attempt to enforce a local ordinance banning guns from the meeting was attempted, he said.
    ##endquote##
    I'm going to agree with Venator on this one. The Michigan Preemption Law of 1990 (MCL 123.1102), obviously,came along quite a few years after a law (Relics) prohibiting feeding of your horse on Sundays. It seems pretty clear to me Tuzinowski is talking about the ordinance(s) banning guns and/or carry thereof.

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    It's amazing what "relic laws" are still on the books in some places. Many states still prohibit alcohol sales on sundays, as well as car sales and even hunting bans. I used to think our "no alcohol before noon" on sunday law was stupid, but after looking at what citizens in other states have to deal with, I'm glad that the no alcohol before noon thing is the only one we have to deal with.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    As far as Georgia is concerned..., many of these 'relic' Laws here are referred to as Blue Laws. In fact, many Southern States have many different Blue Laws. Georgia, in particular, has quite a few that are still left on the Books. There are reoccuring efforts by members of The Georgia Legislature aligned with The First Baptist Church to reinstill many different kinds of Blue Laws in addition to all of The Blue Laws we already have.

    Georgia's Firearms/Weapons Laws are a unique blend of Blue Laws crossbread with Jim Crow Laws. In fact, many Georgia Laws concerning Firearms/Weapons, as is with much of The South, are aimed specifacallyto prevent Black People and other Minorities from carrying/having/using Firearms/Weapons.

    To this day, many Law Enforcement Agencies throughout Georgia still disagree on what a Person can and cannot do with a Firearm/Weapon in public, where they can take it, how they can take it, and what they can do with it once they get to where they are going, etc..

    Hopefully soon though, House Bill 615 will fix thisproblemwhen TheGeorgia General Assembly reconvenes this January, 2010.

    As the Law is written here in Georgia, unfortuantely OpenCarry of a Pistol in Public would get you arrested, unless you have a Georgia Firearms License. Furthermore, even withthat License-carrying a Pistolto a City Hall, or any other Public Building, is Illegal for Citizens to do period.

    I am envious of Michigan in a way, because Michigan is a Northern State and at first glance one would think their Firearms/Weapons Laws would surely be more strict than the alleged 'Pro-Gun' South. It turns out however, that Michigan Firearms Law is even more giving than many other Southern States period.

    I fully support the efforts of Mr. Webb, and other Law-abiding Citizens of Michigan Open Carry, to professionally educateThe Public aboutFirearms Rights in Michigan. There efforts, along with Mr Webb's efforts, are to be fully commended by supporting Firerams Rights in front of The Algonac City Council. If only Georiga Carry members could do somethingsimiliar like this in Georgia...


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    JoeSparky wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    http://www.voicenews.com/articles/20...t#blogcomments

    SNIP...



    ...citizens in Memphis are welcome to carry a gun in public, provided they follow state guidelines, but asks them to be mindful of the fears of others.

    end snip
    Memphis Police Chief Elena Danishevskaya said the above as quoted in the posted article.

    Isn't this like telling Rosa Parks that she is welcome to sit anywhere she wants as long as she gives up her seat and moves to the back on the bus if someone complains?

    Haha close, I think this is more like telling Muslims that theyare "technicallyallowed to wear their arab headware like a keffiyeh or prayer hat but be mindful that the 1st amendment is more of a relic law and to be mindful of people who think you're a terrorist because it could be really upsetting."

    How doesa police chiefget away with sayingsomething like that... The world has always had evil criminals. Our Forefathers chose to afford us the ability to protect ourselves in immediate danger. They didn't afford us a police force to collect our dead bodies 10 minutes later, we did.


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    Mike wrote:
    Memphis Police Chief Elena Danishevskaya said there is no local ordinance banning legal firearms in her rural community. She said many people are not aware of the open carry law in Michigan and are concerned at the sight of a weapon displayed in public.

    "The general public gets nervous for a reason," she said. "A lot of things have happened throughout the country, like the rash of shootings in churches and schools, but these people aren't law-abiding citizens."

    She said citizens in Memphis are welcome to carry a gun in public, provided they follow state guidelines, but asks them to be mindful of the fears of others.

    "If people want to exercise their right, let them to do so, but please think of the citizens that get nervous when they see a gun in the open," she said. "And realize there may be some misunderstanding. A person might get nervous if they are a shop-owner."
    This begs the question: Why are people so sensitized to think a man wearing a properly holstered gun is a threat? People are far more lethal in a vehicle than they are with a firearm, but you don't see parent's scurrying their kids inside every time a car drives by.

    It's an irrational fear born of unfamiliarity.

    The best way we can help move that irrational fear into submission is by becoming ambassadors, wearing our firearms routinely in public, well-dressed and with good manners. Carrying a firearm is never merely an "exercise of constitutional rights" as I've read many police departments and other officials keep putting it. It's primarily commensurate with the purpose for which our 2nd Amendment was created: "the security of a free state," aka "self-defense."

    Mike, I like the picture! I'm not advocating a suit and tie, but being well-dressed during OC carries a lot of respect. On the other hand, OC while looking like a slob doesn't exactly win brownie points with the natives.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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