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Thread: USS Wisconsin and MacArthur Memorial

  1. #1
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    I will be taking a guest to see the USS Wisconsin and the MacArthur Memorial in the next couple of weeks. I OC nearly everywhere I go, but I don't want to ruin the visit for my guest if the employees of these places can legally ask me to leave for carrying my handgun.

    Am I correct that both of these places are City of Norfolk property? If they are, then I am not concerned about OCing there. I have carried at both places in past years, but I want to make sure what I am getting into when I go there again.

    Thanks for any info you can provide.

    Glenn

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    GLW wrote:
    I will be taking a guest to see the USS Wisconsin and the MacArthur Memorial in the next couple of weeks. I OC nearly everywhere I go, but I don't want to ruin the visit for my guest if the employees of these places can legally ask me to leave for carrying my handgun.

    Am I correct that both of these places are City of Norfolk property? If they are, then I am not concerned about OCing there. I have carried at both places in past years, but I want to make sure what I am getting into when I go there again.

    Thanks for any info you can provide.

    Glenn
    I looked at http://www.usswisconsin.org/and it "almost" looks "private", I don't see how though.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    The City of Norfolk recently took ownership of the U.S.S. Wisconsin.

    http://tinyurl.com/ybm8euk



  4. #4
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    Thanks for the info on the Wisconsin. It is clearly city owned.

    Concerning the MacArthur Memorial, all of the contact info email addresses are norfolk.gov addresses. Does this give any indication of government ownership, or no? http://www.macarthurmemorial.org/ContactUs.asp

    Thanks for any info you may have on the MacArthur Memorial.

    Glenn

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The MacArthur Memorial appears to be a private foundation per the State Corporation Commission:
    CISM0180 CORPORATE DATA INQUIRY 18:54:12 CORP ID: - 1 STATUS: 00 ACTIVE STATUS DATE: 04/20/77 CORP NAME: DATE OF CERTIFICATE: 11/09/1962 PERIOD OF DURATION: INDUSTRY CODE: 61 STATE OF INCORPORATION: VA VIRGINIA STOCK INDICATOR: N NON-STOCK MERGER IND: CONVERSION/DOMESTICATION IND: GOOD STANDING IND: Y MONITOR INDICATOR: CHARTER FEE: MON NO: MON STATUS: MONITOR DTE: R/A NAME: WILLIAM J DAVIS GENERAL DOUGLAS MACARTHUR FOUNDATION STREET: 1 MACARTHUR SQUARE AR RTN MAIL: CITY: NORFOLK STATE : VA ZIP: 23510 R/A STATUS: 1 DIRECTOR EFF. DATE: 01/25/08 LOC 212 ACCEPTED AR#: 209 72 1863 DATE: 09/21/09 NORFOLK CITY CURRENT AR#: 209 72 1863 DATE: 09/21/09 STATUS: A ASSESSMENT INDICATOR: 1 YEAR FEES PENALTY INTEREST TAXES BALANCE TOTAL SHARES 00 :
    As such, they can set up whatever rules they want to.

    Just remember, if you ask them ahead of time they will probably say "No." Far better to go there anticipating that they will be accepting, in spite of Mac's history in that little thing called the "Bonus March". If they say your handgun is not welcome, please try to get a name and then relay the info here and to the VCDL Pres for inclusion in the gun-unfriendly list.

    stay safe.

    skidmark


    edited to add: Don't feel as if anyone can "ruin it for you and your guest(s)" either because they have the power to, or exercise that power, to ask your firearm to leave. Look at it as a teaching moment for everyone involved. You get to practice demonstrating that you are a calm, reasonable person who did not draw and shoot up the place just because your gun was not welcome. Your guest(s) get to observe irrational fears and prejudice against those who take responsibility for themselves and engage you in a wonderful conversation about that, and the hoplophobes become disappointed that you remained so calm and polite while thanking them for having craniorectal inversion - or that your behavior was the tipping point that changed their minds.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    ...disappointed that you remained so calm and polite while thanking them for having craniorectal inversion
    Dude, you almost owed me a new keyboard.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Thanks for the info about the MacArthur Memorial.

    I'm curious--how is it that a private foundation can get norfolk.gov email addresses? It seems odd that the City of Norfolk could decide to have paid persons working for a private foundation. I'm not very knowledgeable about how such things operate, so perhaps there is a way.

    Thanks!
    Glenn

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Even if they are a private foundation, if they accept any funding from the City of Norfolk, state or federal govt., do they not come under preemption per municipal funding = ownership position?

    That has always been my understanding.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    GLW wrote:
    Thanks for the info about the MacArthur Memorial.

    I'm curious--how is it that a private foundation can get norfolk.gov email addresses? It seems odd that the City of Norfolk could decide to have paid persons working for a private foundation. I'm not very knowledgeable about how such things operate, so perhaps there is a way.

    Thanks!
    Glenn

    The foundation can set the Norfolk.gov email address based on the fact that they set up their webside under the .gov indicator.

    The .gov is merely an indication that the site is related to governmental stuff as opposed to commercial (.com) or .org (non-commercial, non-governmental) activities. IIRC there are about a dozen .xxx or .xx endings that are up to you to chose as opposed to having to establish bona fides before being allowed to use. See for instance all the .xxx/.xx endings scarfed up in the thread about "I Got My Guns In Virginia". (for some reason the search function times out before I can get the specific URL You go look, OK?)

    If, as I have suggested, they are in fact a private non-stock corporation, then it might prove to be fun to bring the email indicator to the attention of Norfolk City Council. I'm sure there is either a city or state law regarding falsely indicating you are connected to the local government. (Not that I believe Norfolk's city parents would care a whit.)

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    * edited to add -- went to godaddy to look up what you can get in the USA besides the .gov indicator: com, info, net, org, me, mobi, biz, it, jobs and tv. Each is supposed to help sort out the intartubes so folks can more easily figure out what is behind the website. For instance, a .info site would most likely be a repository of - whodathunk it - information. A .biz site would be a business site. A .jobs one relating to employment. Etc. for the rest of them. Some of those indicators can also have country of origin indicated, such as .biz.cn is a Canadian business site.

    stay safe. Learn something new every day. That way when you get old you'll have stuff to replace the stuff you already forgot.

    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Even if they are a private foundation, if they accept any funding from the City of Norfolk, state or federal govt., do they not come under preemption per municipal funding = ownership position?

    That has always been my understanding.

    Yata hey
    Unfortunately, it's not the case.

    Both the Commonwealth and local governments are permitted to expend taxpayer money to support private enterprises which, in the view of the lawmakers, benefit the Commonwealth or locality. Many privately owned tourist destinations, from The Virginia Opera to The Barter Theatre to local farmers' markets get state and/or local funds but do not thereby come under 15.2-915 COV.

    Remember, Waterside "claimed" it was private but the money trail as well as the organizational chart demonstrated it was an entirely public beast. The MacArthur Foundation and The MacArthur Memorial came into being via the State Corporation Commission granting them a charter of incorporation. Local government entities (forget the actual wording of 15.2-915) are created by local government ordinance, not by incorporation through the SCC.

    When did they stop teaching basic civics in Virginia? Always saw it listed in the Standards of Learning for both Middle and High Schools, but maybe they just don't cover these issues??

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Thanks for the info, Skidmark. I thought it seemed funny that a private corporation could decide to use the norfolk.gov email address. It might be fun to chase this a bit further.

    It might be kind of funny to tell the city council that I'm considering opening a tattoo parlor and wonder if it would be o.k. if I use a norfolk.gov email address. Should be worth a few laughs.

    Glenn

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Even if they are a private foundation, if they accept any funding from the City of Norfolk, state or federal govt., do they not come under preemption per municipal funding = ownership position?
    no, why would you think this? Where is funding mentioned in 15.2-915? And federal government? Even if they are an agent of the federal government, 15.2-915 does not apply.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Do you guys see any complications for a law making it a requirement; if you receive public funds you must not ban firearms in general access areas.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    Do you guys see any complications for a law making it a requirement; if you receive public funds you must not ban firearms in general access areas.
    Yes.

    Your proposal does not address state government itself. As, for instance, 15.2-915 COV addresses what the GA will allow its underlings (local government) to do, but has no effect on the Commonwealth and its subdivisions. Thus, we have the various universities misusing the Administrative Code, and nothing that prevents state agencies from doing as they wish even to the point of glaring differences between one agency and the next.

    In other words, true preemption would be that no governmental unit except the GA could write anything effecting the various categories enumerated in 15.2-915 COV.

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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