imported post
ColMustard wrote:
Ok, before the tin foil completely takes over in here let me say that I am a LONG time reader of this board, but only now have I been prompted to finally register and post if for no other reason than to set a few facts straight (and hopefully end what I would consider the badgering of the Alabama posters into finding arcane legal references that the OP is apparently unwilling or unable to find on their own). So, without further delay...
You and the other aforementioned "Free Inhabitants of America" may be of any "educated opinion" you choose. I can't tell you what to think; neither can anyone else. However, saying gravity doesn't apply to you doesn't make you weightless.
You stated before:
I was born in the geographical area known as Alabama, and as such, my proper status under the law is that of an American National of the United States of America, not a U.S. citizen.
Umm, in a word - no.
US Constitution
Amendment 14 was ratified in 1868. I'll go on a limb and say that you were probably born after 1868. "1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside..." Effectively this says, "Born in Alabama? This means you." Congratulations, you ARE a citizen of both the U.S. and of Alabama.
The U.S. Government recognizes at least two different forms of citizenship evidenced by the following official document.
The term "American National" when used apart from "American Citizen" applies to only a small portion of the U.S. population as outlined in Sec 308 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (individuals born in outlying possessions of the U.S. with those being American Samoa and Swain's Island). "
Sec. 308. [8 U.S.C. 1408] Unless otherwise provided in section 301 of this title, the following shall be nationals, but not citizens of the United States at birth:
(1) A person born in an outlying possession of the United States on or after the date of formal acquisition of such possession;
(2) A person born outside the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are nationals, but not citizens, of the United States, and have had a residence in the United States, or one of its outlying possessions prior to the birth of such person;
(3) A person of unknown parentage found in an outlying possession of the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty- one years, not to have been born in such outlying possession; and
(4) A person born outside the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a national, but not a citizen, of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than seven years in any continuous period of ten years-
(A) during which the national parent was not outside the United States or its outlying possessions for a continuous period of more than one year, and
(B) at least five years of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.
The proviso of section 301(g) shall apply to the national parent under this paragraph in the same manner as it applies to the citizen parent under that section.
Once viewed
WITH Sec. 301, which states "
Sec. 301. [8 U.S.C. 1401] The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;"
it becomes very clear that if you were born in the U.S., you ARE a citizen "AND" national,
not "or."
There were no "U.S. citizens" prior to the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. So what were those people in America before that amendment? They were (and still are) American Nationals of the United States of America.
Yeah, actually there were. The third sentence (right after the preamble, if you got that far) even uses the term "Citizen of the United States" when referencing qualifications to be a representative. As it was post-Civil War and post-Emancipation, the 14th Amd only sought to clarify that the slaves who had been born in the geographic boundaries of the U.S. were actually citizens and therefore were entitled to representation as citizens. By spelling it out, it removed any doubt that they were equal to any other citizen, regardless of how their ancestors may have gotten here whether of their own free will or not and removed any "three-fifths" arguments.
Did you know that you cannot be compelled to participate in the Social Security scam if it violates your religious beliefs? Were you aware that the State of Alabama recognizes this lawful position and belief? Did you know that this form existed before now? Take note too that the State of Alabama recognizes that there are so many people in Alabama that don't participate in Social Security because of their religious beliefs that they created an official state document just for them. Have you ever heard anyone speak of this fact on any television or radio program, or write about it in any newspaper or magazine? Of course you didn't. They want the people ignorant of their Inalienable Rights. After all, 'everyone must have a Social Security number, it's the law.'
True. For those who belong to a religious group whose receipt of insurance or other benefits violates their religious beliefs, they can opt out if their group is among those listed with the SSA. Keep in mind though, don't expect to file a claim for Supplemental Security benefit payments if you are injured and unable to work or Social Security benefits if you retire. You are still responsible for paying federal taxes on income, and the form to opt out of SSA payroll taxes even makes it perfectly clear. Don't want an SSN? Fine. You still have to have an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number if you have taxable income. For the vast majority of folks, the SSN concurrently fulfills that same function.
No idea what this has to do with open carry, but I aim to please.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4029.pdf
Preemptively: don't even get started on whether or not the federal gov't can tax your income - they can. [I just figured it would be coming next.]
Amendment 16 ratified in 1913:
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html
You do not meet the requirements of the status of "American National" without also meeting those of "citizen." Just because you got some knucklehead (who likely didn't know the difference) to accept a photocopied form at the Alabama DMV means nothing to anyone except the DMV, and even then most of the folks there have probably never heard of Swain's Island and couldn't find it or American Samoa on a world map. Actually, most would likely consider American Samoa as their favorite Girl Scout cookie (right behind Thin Mints and just before Tagalongs).
Note this passage from the Articles of Confederation which were included and incorporated into the United States Code. "The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different States in this Union, the free inhabitants of each of these States, paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several States" --Articles of Confederation, Article IV.
The U.S. Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation as a whole upon ratification on June 21, 1788. Referencing the AoC is akin to referencing a recipe from Southern Living - completely irrelevant (unless it's for this cake my wife made for the holidays which was outstanding!).
If you are so insistent that you not be an American citizen, here is my suggestion. Renounce your citizenship (which was so unmercifully foisted upon you) in accordance with 8 USC Sec. 1841:
§1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions (a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
...(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State...
Mind you this has to be done in a foreign country, as other "Free Inhabitants" like yourself have tried this before while in U.S. Territory. From the Department of State website:
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
"In the case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998), plaintiff was a United States citizen and resident of Puerto Rico, who executed an oath of renunciation before a consular officer at the U.S. Embassy in Santo Domingo. The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because the plaintiff wanted to retain one of the primary benefits of U.S. citizenship while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen. The Court described the plaintiff as a person, "claiming to renounce all rights and privileges of United States citizenship, [while] Plaintiff wants to continue to exercise one of the fundamental rights of citizenship, namely to travel freely throughout the world and when he wants to, return and reside in the United States." See also Jose Fufi Santori v. United States of America , 1994 U.S. App. LEXIS 16299 (1994) for a similar case. A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of renunciation. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances."
I can speak to this with authority, as I have the authority vested in me to act as a U.S. Consul in accordance with US Code.
So, in summary for those of you just joining us:
You were born in the United States... In Alabama... You ARE a U.S. Citizen. So sez the Constitution.
You do not have to participate in Social Security if you can prove a religious exemption. So much for using your monthly SSA retirement benefit to buy guns if you so choose, 'cause you won't be getting a check.
You do have to pay federal taxes on income. So sez the Constitution.
You can travel outside of the U.S. and renounce your citizenship there to a U.S. consular officer.
You
are not, nor do you qualify to be, just a "U.S. National" regardless of whatever blank form you choose to submit to the Alabama DMV.
You can choose to be of any "educated opinion" of your choosing, but the State of Alabama (and its elected representative legislature) and the U.S. Government (and by that I mean the elected Congress that represents you at the federal level) would wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion that the "Code of Alabama" (or similar federal code) is as you put it "a private set of rules and regulations that apply only to those who are intimately involved in the business of government."
I suspect you're proceeding on a path that will one day allow you to be an official "resident" of the State of Alabama. Set those lofty goals high and achieve them! At least you'll get three square meals a day.
Just because you "choose" not to agree doesn't make it any less the truth. You don't want to sign your ATF form when purchasing a firearm? Fine - more for us.
The good news? You can use your tax refund to buy as much tin foil as you like.
Did I mention first time caller, long time listener? Hopefully I cited well enough to get Citizen's approval.
Now...can we all get back to talking about open carry?